Too Early to call Kassian a dissapointment?

[SabreFan1]

Zack turns 23 in a month. You won't get a better idea about his future until next season when he turns 24. If he is still having the same problems and isn't getting any better towards the end of next season then he is a bust/disappointment. You'll have a much better idea about Kassian by the end of next season. For right now disappointment is a bit of a strong word.

For those comparing him to Hodgson, look at it this way: Hodgson is improving on his defensive skills, you can definitely see the improvement from last season but at most his defense at its best will be average. The one thing that he will always lack is speed and that is one thing that will follow him throughout his career. The most he can do to improve a little in that regard is work on his technique with the Sabre's skating coach.

Kass has the tools to excel. He's big, fast, and on occasion shows that he can score goals. I've said it before, what will make him or break him is his coaching. If in the end he can be molded into a second line staple then he will have been well worth the price. Right now Hodgson is only on the Sabre's first line by default, but on any good team he would be a second liner and there's nothing wrong with that.

For now, just expect Kass to be a very average third liner. At this point in his career, that's not a bad thing. If he's still only very average or worse towards the end of next season though, that would be the time to panic and complain.

[Hairy Kneel]

We'll know for sure when he's like 30 then we can send him down.

[Quoted]

Someone please tell me where Kassian has improved his game in the past 2 years.

I guess that's the thing - lots of people say he's still developing. What if he isn't and this is what he brings? There hasn't been tons of obvious learning or progression even if you don't expect him to be scoring lots. He's almost 23 - not 17, so though young he's hardly just a kid either.

[cbdoubleu]

He's been disappointing at times, both on and off the ice, but he's only entering his 3rd season in the NHL. By no means a bust at this point.

He shows flashes of what people here expect him to become; the second comimg of Bertuzzi, which is probably unfair. Bertuzzi took 4 seasons before he put up 50+ points, 20+ goals, and that was on a last place team where he became a 1st liner/PP unit player by default.

Todd Bertuzzi for a time was one of the best, most feared power forwards in the world, and he made the Canadian Olympic Team. I'd never put those expectations on Kassian.

All he has to do is learn how to be a full time NHL'er, use his size, take the body, be mean and learn the game, how to read plays better and let his natural talents do the rest.

[TimberWolf]

I am not fond of his game right now but I can see his skillset, size and strength. If we gave up on him we just may regret it. If he's 26 and sucks, then I'll drop the support. Till then I am going to be patient.

I am in an odd zen about the whole team to be honest. Wrote the year off before it started.

[Jester13]

I think it is too early to call him a bust, although I have no qualms about analyzing/criticizing his game--why should he be any different from any other player?

IMO, he doesn't appear to be an intelligent kid. He has made some bonehead plays so far in his early career, and when most players would smarten up, listen to the people around them, and then learn and correct their mistakes, Kassian seems to continue floating and making dumb play after dumb play.

Will he turn out to be the player we all hope we will be? Not sure.

Am I, for one, concerned about his improvement so far? Yes.

Send him down to Utica and get him some top playing time with the farm.

[Quoted]

82 games son

0.569 winning percentage through 35% of season, Dad.

[Merci]

Yea because having Cody hodgson would be so much better right now.

There's a reason his team sucks, their 1C is soft as hell!

[oldnews]

Zack turns 23 in a month. You won't get a better idea about his future until next season when he turns 24. If he is still having the same problems and isn't getting any better towards the end of next season then he is a bust/disappointment. You'll have a much better idea about Kassian by the end of next season. For right now disappointment is a bit of a strong word.

For those comparing him to Hodgson, look at it this way: Hodgson is improving on his defensive skills, you can definitely see the improvement from last season but at most his defense at its best will be average. The one thing that he will always lack is speed and that is one thing that will follow him throughout his career. The most he can do to improve a little in that regard is work on his technique with the Sabre's skating coach.

Kass has the tools to excel. He's big, fast, and on occasion shows that he can score goals. I've said it before, what will make him or break him is his coaching. If in the end he can be molded into a second line staple then he will have been well worth the price. Right now Hodgson is only on the Sabre's first line by default, but on any good team he would be a second liner and there's nothing wrong with that.

For now, just expect Kass to be a very average third liner. At this point in his career, that's not a bad thing. If he's still only very average or worse towards the end of next season though, that would be the time to panic and complain.

Very well said imo. I agree with you that how he is coached will make a difference - and he had a strong re-start (after suspension) to the season, but my concern where Tortorella is concerned is whether he'll remain a positive influence where Kassian's confidence is concerned. The last thing Kassian needs imo is to have to dwell on every mistake he makes - when he's confident, he makes very few - but recently he's been notably anxious moving the puck in his own end of the ice, and the result has snowballed into a mistake a game and getting scratched - a giveaway in Chicago and benched (understandable in that type of game). A delay of game penalty in NY resulting in a pp goal, and scratched.

Recently Tortorella has also been blowing his share of head gaskets behind the bench - not exactly self-control - whether that kind of thing will be of benefit to young players like Kassian...?

[mrhopeless]

The focus on production is misplaced; the focus should be more on character, desire, fitness, willingness to follow the plan, discipline, etc. Without these there's no reason to believe he'll improve.

"...is sometimes a shade lazy like all youngsters."

- like all youngsters? Give me a break. Young players usually show a lot more energy than veterans.

[Chalky]

The focus on production is misplaced; the focus should be more on character, desire, fitness, willingness to follow the plan, discipline, etc. Without these there's no reason to believe he'll improve.

"...is sometimes a shade lazy like all youngsters."

- like all youngsters? Give me a break. Young players usually show a lot more energy than veterans.

I am loathe to generalize age groups, especially professional athletes, given John Toews at 23 was not at all like Zach Kassian is now. It's important to recognize the difference between laziness and energy though. A lazy player can fly around the ice at top speed and look like they are giving 100% but are in fact making lazy plays. I have to agree with the first part of your comment though, the work ethic is not only on the ice in games and practice. The kid needs to have focus and he needs to buy in fully or he will never realize his potential. He does have potential and the jury is still out on him in my opinion. Does he have the required "character, desire, fitness, willingness to follow the plan, discipline, etc."? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Quoted]

The focus on production is misplaced; the focus should be more on character, desire, fitness, willingness to follow the plan, discipline, etc. Without these there's no reason to believe he'll improve.

I think those are the areas that are in fact concerning a lot of people

[Plaguez]

I am not claiming that Kassian should be on line 1. I am saying that if he works out there and we win then that is reason enough to do it. If he doesn't do well than then you do something else. This bs about earning is just that. It's a reason to slam him and not much else.

Love how you call people bunnies since that is a double edged crappy argument. If people that support Kassian are bunnies then you are a flat out hater

If believing that Kassian is a third/fourth liner who has no business playing first line minutes ahead of any other forward, then sure, I'm a hater. No problem being called that either bunnies.

[Plaguez]

Very well said imo. I agree with you that how he is coached will make a difference - and he had a strong re-start (after suspension) to the season, but my concern where Tortorella is concerned is whether he'll remain a positive influence where Kassian's confidence is concerned. The last thing Kassian needs imo is to have to dwell on every mistake he makes - when he's confident, he makes very few - but recently he's been notably anxious moving the puck in his own end of the ice, and the result has snowballed into a mistake a game and getting scratched - a giveaway in Chicago and benched (understandable in that type of game). A delay of game penalty in NY resulting in a pp goal, and scratched.

Recently Tortorella has also been blowing his share of head gaskets behind the bench - not exactly self-control - whether that kind of thing will be of benefit to young players like Kassian...?

That is the exact same tired excuse given last year! So it's got nothing to do with Kassian, it's all on the coaches? This is one of the more frustrating aspects of any discussion regarding Kassian. For some reason I can't fathom, he is never responsible for his own shortcomings. It's either he's not getting the minutes he needs (screw earning them, that's stupid and only for everyone else to do), he's not getting the line mates he needs (screw that he's a third liner, put him with the Sedins to artificially inflate his numbers so we can say I told you so), the coach isn't being patient with him (every opportunity in the world isn't enough dammit!), he's not getting PP time, he isn't encouraged when he screws up, he is young, he hasn't played 200 games yet, he is really more of a passer, he can't hit every game, he didn't mess up the goalie should have had that, he just lost weight and hasn't adjusted yet, he was too heavy and just lost weight, wait until he's 25, no, 27.

Any other Canuck? Well, those are just excuses.

[Quoted]

That is the exact same tired excuse given last year! So it's got nothing to do with Kassian, it's all on the coaches? This is one of the more frustrating aspects of any discussion regarding Kassian. For some reason I can't fathom, he is never responsible for his own shortcomings. It's either he's not getting the minutes he needs (screw earning them, that's stupid and only for everyone else to do), he's not getting the line mates he needs (screw that he's a third liner, put him with the Sedins to artificially inflate his numbers so we can say I told you so), the coach isn't being patient with him (every opportunity in the world isn't enough dammit!), he's not getting PP time, he isn't encouraged when he screws up, he is young, he hasn't played 200 games yet, he is really more of a passer, he can't hit every game, he didn't mess up the goalie should have had that, he just lost weight and hasn't adjusted yet, he was too heavy and just lost weight, wait until he's 25, no, 27.

Any other Canuck? Well, those are just excuses.

He's just a big, delicate flower, leave the poor thing alone.

[oldnews]

That is the exact same tired excuse given last year! So it's got nothing to do with Kassian, it's all on the coaches? This is one of the more frustrating aspects of any discussion regarding Kassian. For some reason I can't fathom, he is never responsible for his own shortcomings. It's either he's not getting the minutes he needs (screw earning them, that's stupid and only for everyone else to do), he's not getting the line mates he needs (screw that he's a third liner, put him with the Sedins to artificially inflate his numbers so we can say I told you so), the coach isn't being patient with him (every opportunity in the world isn't enough dammit!), he's not getting PP time, he isn't encouraged when he screws up, he is young, he hasn't played 200 games yet, he is really more of a passer, he can't hit every game, he didn't mess up the goalie should have had that, he just lost weight and hasn't adjusted yet, he was too heavy and just lost weight, wait until he's 25, no, 27.

Any other Canuck? Well, those are just excuses.

And that's the same kind of boring, frustrated, misdirected rant that is a waste of time, and in no lack of abundance on CDC.

I have no problem with how he was used last year by AV, nor am I really concerned about him playing in the bottom six this year - that's where young players like Kassian should sharpen their skates imo - he's not developed enough imo to play with the Sedins - not an upgrade on everything Burrows does.

I think he's done well managing the fairly constant changes to his situational use - for the past two seasons the Canucks have had a considerable amount of absences from the middle forward lines - so it's been inevitable.

I'd have to agree with the complainers criticizing him to be bothered to make excuses - I don't see his play the way they or their sidekicks under the bridge see it - no excuses necessary. Complain all you want. OMG, does no one see how horrible this young guy is, blah, blah, boo hoo.

Weren't there enough Hodgson threads for you to whine and vent in?

I was simply agreeing with an observant Sabres fan.

If there's one thing I'm not interested in seeing, it is a ballbuster approach where Kassian is concerned.

[Ronalds.Kenins41]

Just stop.

Kes is on pace for 33 while the team has been slumping.

Hodgson had 2 GWG with the Canucks and was useless in the playoffs.

I like how you ignore the second half of my sentences. I said without the sedins and being on the powerplay kes would have totals in the mid to low 20s. I didn't talk about his current pace in which he has spent lots of time with the sedins on the top line and on the PP.

I also never said that Hodgson scored game winners and said that he scored many game tying goals.

Learn to read the full post and watch the games next time before just running off to stat sheets cause we all the know the stats.

[Ronalds.Kenins41]

I think the most disappointing thing is his effort. From things like backchecking to laying the body he seems to enjoy taking the easy route every time.

I agree but I think that's the most disappointing thing about the team in general so it's hard to hang him out to dry personally for it.

Higgins,Santo, Richardson, Sedins,Stanton, Tanev, Kesler are not trying?

You need to watch some games before making comments like that.

[Canada Hockey Place]

He was drafted just after guys like Brayden Schenn, Glennie, Kadri, Paajarvi-Svensson... ahead of Holland, Leblanc, Kreider, Josefson.

I can't see how his development would be considered anything less than average. IMO it's looking good.

[stawns]

That is the exact same tired excuse given last year! So it's got nothing to do with Kassian, it's all on the coaches? This is one of the more frustrating aspects of any discussion regarding Kassian. For some reason I can't fathom, he is never responsible for his own shortcomings. It's either he's not getting the minutes he needs (screw earning them, that's stupid and only for everyone else to do), he's not getting the line mates he needs (screw that he's a third liner, put him with the Sedins to artificially inflate his numbers so we can say I told you so), the coach isn't being patient with him (every opportunity in the world isn't enough dammit!), he's not getting PP time, he isn't encouraged when he screws up, he is young, he hasn't played 200 games yet, he is really more of a passer, he can't hit every game, he didn't mess up the goalie should have had that, he just lost weight and hasn't adjusted yet, he was too heavy and just lost weight, wait until he's 25, no, 27.

Any other Canuck? Well, those are just excuses.

I don't disagree that earning time is important, but at the same time kass is a purely offensive player. Why not put him in a position where he can do what he does best? Keep him on the third line, but let the kid have some PP time and play with some actual offensive players........that's how you build his confidence, by accentuating the part of the game he is most comfy with. I really don't get why JT won't use him on a PP that sucks anyway, it's not like they have anything to lose at this point.