Nino Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 so far JT is far worse with his player management than AV. He's ruining Kassian, imo Kassian is ruining himself stop blaming the coaches for his lack of effort. This is not new news even the scouting reports questioned his work ethic and consistency it has nothing to do with coaching in fact he was benched for lack of effort be buffalo, buffalo's AHL team, Canucks coaches x2, Canucks AHL team. That's 5 of his last 5 coaches couldn't get through to him that playing in the big leagues requires work it's not the coaching that's the problem it's between his ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanBeef Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 so far JT is far worse with his player management than AV. He's ruining Kassian, imo Thats what NY fans thought when Kreider was being benched and played with plugs in NY. He's doing pretty good now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_washington Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Kassian is ruining himself stop blaming the coaches for his lack of effort. This is not new news even the scouting reports questioned his work ethic and consistency it has nothing to do with coaching in fact he was benched for lack of effort be buffalo, buffalo's AHL team, Canucks coaches x2, Canucks AHL team. That's 5 of his last 5 coaches couldn't get through to him that playing in the big leagues requires work it's not the coaching that's the problem it's between his ears. I kind of have to agree here...I watch pretty much every game and I can't say I see what others see when they say he's coming along. He's a big guy so if he's not scoring I'm not sure why he's not at least a bit more aggressive on the forecheck/hitting? There was a point in last nights game where he was zeroing in on the Phoenix d-man on the forecheck ( I think in the 2nd ) and instead of getting a good lick in like Weise/Sestito have been he just let up and grazed him.... if you're not scoring show some of your other intangibles no? I just feel that this is slightly disappointing from a guy who many say deserves more than the 5-10 mins a game he's getting right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Kassian is ruining himself stop blaming the coaches for his lack of effort. This is not new news even the scouting reports questioned his work ethic and consistency it has nothing to do with coaching in fact he was benched for lack of effort be buffalo, buffalo's AHL team, Canucks coaches x2, Canucks AHL team. That's 5 of his last 5 coaches couldn't get through to him that playing in the big leagues requires work it's not the coaching that's the problem it's between his ears. Kassian put together 5-6 very very solid games in a row about a month ago Was he rewarded with more ice with offensive players for more than a few shifts? How about consistent PP time? No, he was not. He played very hard and was the drive on every line he played on during that string of games and the first sign of a mistake he was punished and put back on the 4th line with plugs. What kind of message is that sending a young player? Don't give me that garbage about he's not earning his shot. He earned a legitimate chance at a top 6 role for an extended period, not just a few shifts here and there and no PP time. He's a pure offensive player, he needs to be in a role that plays to his strengths, not accentuates his weaknesses. IMO JT sucks at player management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Kassian put together 5-6 very very solid games in a row about a month ago Was he rewarded with more ice with offensive players for more than a few shifts? How about consistent PP time? No, he was not. He played very hard and was the drive on every line he played on during that string of games and the first sign of a mistake he was punished and put back on the 4th line with plugs. What kind of message is that sending a young player? Don't give me that garbage about he's not earning his shot. He earned a legitimate chance at a top 6 role for an extended period, not just a few shifts here and there and no PP time. He's a pure offensive player, he needs to be in a role that plays to his strengths, not accentuates his weaknesses. IMO JT sucks at player management "He earned a legitimate chance at a top 6 role" lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 "He earned a legitimate chance at a top 6 role" lmao. solid argument, good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Kassian put together 5-6 very very solid games in a row about a month ago Was he rewarded with more ice with offensive players for more than a few shifts? How about consistent PP time? No, he was not. He played very hard and was the drive on every line he played on during that string of games and the first sign of a mistake he was punished and put back on the 4th line with plugs. What kind of message is that sending a young player? Don't give me that garbage about he's not earning his shot. He earned a legitimate chance at a top 6 role for an extended period, not just a few shifts here and there and no PP time. He's a pure offensive player, he needs to be in a role that plays to his strengths, not accentuates his weaknesses. IMO JT sucks at player management Sorry but 5 games of not being a likability out there isn't going to do it let me know when we see 20+ games of hard work. How many games has he played this season? You think because he had a few ok games he should be moved to the top six and put on the pp? He hasn't earned anything but a ticket to NY city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goog16 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Other young players on other teams are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them,on this team(coach) it seems that it will get you benched and a one way ticket to the press box. Zack needs to play to develop!Play him more than 5 minutes a night(4th line) and live and let him learn from his mistakes or send him to Uttica to find his game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Other young players on other teams are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them,on this team(coach) it seems that it will get you benched and a one way ticket to the press box. Zack needs to play to develop!Play him more than 5 minutes a night(4th line) and live and let him learn from his mistakes or send him to Uttica to find his game! His problem isn't that he's out there busting his butt and makes the odd mistake like all young players will don't fool yourself. His problem is he doesn't work at the level he needs to, more ice time is not going to help that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Sorry but 5 games of not being a likability out there isn't going to do it let me know when we see 20+ games of hard work. How many games has he played this season? You think because he had a few ok games he should be moved to the top six and put on the pp? He hasn't earned anything but a ticket to NY city. If that idea upsets you so much then you must be livid that Booth is on line 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 WE TRADED THAT FOR KASSIAN..... /CRY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 If that idea upsets you so much then you must be livid that Booth is on line 1 I believe Torts and Gillis are trying to showcase him for trade. Once he has enough confidence they will cut him loose to the second or third line so GMs can see him create on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 This his line played good tonight, good board battles kept Phoenix pinned in their own end. Yep. The Canucks actually have a 4th line that can play meaningful minutes with him on it. I'mnot ragging on Dalpe's effort because it has been good, but if a better 4th line C came their way then the Canucks could feasibly roll 4 solid lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Top PWF's in todays game, I'm showing the seasons were they showcased their talent and made an impact on the team as a top 9 guy. Basically the season that made you *notice* the guy. .............. that's interesting, a fairly direct correlation between where they were drafted and how quickly they broke out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Top PWF's in todays game, I'm showing the seasons were they showcased their talent and made an impact on the team as a top 9 guy. Basically the season that made you *notice* the guy. Todd Bertuzzi: 1993, 23rd overall pick 50 pts in 80 games played as a 24 year old (15:24 AVG TOI) Shane Doan: 1995, 7th overall pick 51 pts in 81 games played as a 23 year old (16:51 AVG TOI) Jarome Iginla: 1995, 11th overall pick 50 pts in 82 games played as a 19 year old (AVG TOI not recorded) Brendan Morrow: 1997, 25th overall pick 33 pts in 64 games played as a 21 year old (15:51 AVG TOI) Erik Cole: 1998, 71st overall pick 40 pts in 81 games played as a 23 year old (16:04 AVG TOI) Ryan Malone: 1999, 115th overall pick 43 pts in 81 games played as a 24 year old (18:54 AVG TOI) Scott Hartnell: 2000, 6th overall pick 41 pts in 75 games played as a 19 year old (16:58 AVG TOI) Ryane Clowe: 2001, 175th overall pick 34 pts in 58 games played as a 24 year old (13:11 AVG TOI) Dustin Brown: 2003, 13th overall pick 46 pts in 81 games played as a 22 year old (18:43 AVG TOI) Corey Perry: 2003, 28th overall pick 44 pts in 82 games played as a 21 year old. (12:28 AVG TOI) Ryan Getzlaf: 2003, 19th overall pick 58 pts in 82 games played as a 21 year old (15:04 AVG TOI) Nathan Horton: 2003, 3rd overall pick 47 pts in 71 games played as a 20 year old. (16:53 AVG TOI) David Backes: 2003, 62nd overall pick 54 pts in 82 games played as a 24 year old (17:41 AVG TOI) Johan Franzen: 2004, 97th overall pick 38 pts in 72 games played as a 28 year old (17:44 AVG TOI) *Note, Franzen scored 27 goals and was drafted at the age of 24. Chris Stewart: 2006, 18th overall pick 64 pts in 77 games played as a 22 year old (16:42 AVG TOI) Milan Lucic: 2006, 50th overall pick 42 pts in 72 games played as a 20 year old (14:57 AVG TOI) AVG Age of Impact Season: 22 Zack Kassian: 2009, 13th overall pick 1 month and 17 days from turning 23. 27 pts in 107 games played (Career AVG TOI 12:06) *Unable to earn trust or promotion from coaches Alain Vigneault and John Torteralla for increase role/ice-time. *Poor in the defensive zone thus far. *Lack of physical play When you give up Cody Hodgson for a 'potential' powerforward, you would like the guy to be atleast in this class of PWF's. He was drafted quite high at 13th overall. Most 1st round picks tend to contribute at a early age and late picks at a later age. Logical. Some expections of course. Write this season off. Next season will be crucial. Can this guy put up a 35+ point season? You can bring up his lack of ice-time all you want, but you have to EARN it, and be put in that spot. Unless you think AV and Torts are coincidentally two bad coaches who can't realize his talents and put him in the proper situation to succeed... Next year he'll start the season as a 23 year old, let's see if he will breakout. Peter Holland a 15th overall pick, 22 years old, the Ducks gave up on him. Obviously Kassian will be given every chance in the world because Hodgson was given up.. They need to justify the trade. Most players are considered a bust at 23/24 if no signs of progression/potential are shown with the exception of Detroit prospects My thoughts? Should of been in the AHL once acquired by Vancouver. Wow. One thing you forgot to factor in about kassian. He is going up against much higher quality competition then any of those guys ever did. And just because guys are big and score doesn't make them PWF it's how they play the game. Comparing Kassian to Iginla, Perry and Getzlaf doesn't exactly make Kassian look good; it doesn't make any of our players on the team look good. Kassian likes to compare his game to Bert's lets compare. Bertuzzi is playing in a much easier Eastern Conference and spends a lot of time on PP lets see how he's doing. Bertuzzi 24 games played 5 goals(3 on the powerplay and on EC teams) 4 assists -6 47 shots Kassian 25 games played 5 goals(4 goals from EC teams and no PP goals) 1 assist -4 25 shots* EC= Eastern Conference. Right now Kassian has 25 shots on goal and 5 goals a shooting percentage of 20% which about where Bert was in his prime when he scored 36 and 46 goals with us. But here is the difference, Kassian is not playing with Nasland and Morrison on the top line and time on the 1st PP unit; he is on the fourth line and just got scratched the other game. If you want to compare players make sure they are in the same situation cause stats never tell the full story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 And just because guys are big and score doesn't make them PWF it's how they play the game. Comparing Kassian to Iginla, Perry and Getzlaf doesn't exactly make Kassian look good; it doesn't make any of our players on the team look good. Kassian likes to compare his game to Bert's lets compare. 1. Those guys are all BONAFIDE NHL powerforwards of today's game. 2. There will NEVER be another Bertuzzi, let alone Kassian reaching 30% of that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Lots of people are dissapointed in Kass, with good reason. That said, it is not time to give up on the kid. I really think he should be sent down to Utica for development. Playing him 4th line minutes is not going to improve his game. Let's see what he can do after a season of playing top minutes for the Comets. Due to the Hodgson trade, Zack is staying with the team when he should be sent down. MG needs to swallow his pride and let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Lots of people are dissapointed in Kass, with good reason. That said, it is not time to give up on the kid. I really think he should be sent down to Utica for development. Playing him 4th line minutes is not going to improve his game. Let's see what he can do after a season of playing top minutes for the Comets. Due to the Hodgson trade, Zack is staying with the team when he should be sent down. MG needs to swallow his pride and let him go. Hodgson is playing like crap. He is also a year older , drafted 3 spots higher and was supposed to be a pure scorer/playmaker. If Hodgson was here he would have 5 points, and be a healthy scratch . Torts would be trying to gouge his eyeballs out . He has to be fed top 6 minutes because he is utterly useless in any other situation. There are way too many folks on here who invested their man crushes and fantasies on Hodgson and are incapable of being objective at the limitations the guy has. He is almost 24 years old. What you see is what you got. And it aint that great. At least with Kassian he has other assets and has a lot more developing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grapes-N-Canucks Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I'm not sure of the timeline; but the Hodgson trade came along about 4 months or so after the Canucks let Raffi Torres walk didn't it? What did Torres want? Million and a half, 2 million a year? Torres, suspensions and all; delivers a certain amount of fear and helps keep fools in line. IMO, the Nucks do not have that at all, now. Wasn't the trade of Hodgson supposed to supplant his supposed softness for a tough, gritty forward...Kassian? Kassian doesn't deliver the toughness, fear, call it what you will. And, no one player makes a team; but I think letting Torres go set in motion a series of events the Canucks now regret. Late- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Hodgson -9 44% in the faceoff circle 20th on the Buffalo Sabres with a relative corsi of -6.6 and corsi on of -16.8. 1.85 pts/60 min, 167th in the NHL Quality of competition +0.882 Kassian -4 16th on the Canucks with a relative corsi of -11.7 and corsi on of -5.03 1.27 pts/60 min, 293rd in the NHL. Quality of competition +0.867 6.6 hits/60 min - Adam McQuaid, Dion Phaneuf 6.4, Bobby Ryan 6.5, Chris Stewart, Morrow, Iginla, Doan 6.6. Quality of linemates/ situational opportunities....figure that out for yourself. A lot of people doing way too much whining in this thread. Hodgson is a good young offensive forward, but extremely over-rated. Kassian is a good young power forward, extremely over-criticized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.