5Fivehole0 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Let's start with one of CDC's whipping boys on the blue line. People REALLY like to say that Edler is shaky and coughs up the puck ALL the time. The only thing I have against Edler is that drop pass to enter the zone. Edler being a "giveaway machine." It's funny because I was just looking at the Canucks D's turnover stats and the numbers certainly don't bear this out. Looking at players with 20 or more games per season, and measuring for giveaways per sixty minutes TOI, here's where Edler ranks on the Canucks D: 2013-14: 3rd (less GvA/60 than Bieksa and Hamhuis) 2012-13: 3rd (again, with less GvA/60 than Bieksa and Hamhuis) 2011-12: 4th (behind Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Ballard) 2010-11: 9th (behind Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Ballard, Hamhuis, Rome, Alberts, Tanev, and Salo) Looks like there are at least two better candidates on the D (Hamhuis and Bieksa) for the title of "giveaway machine" (to be fair, I wouldn't call either of them "giveaway machines"--well, maybe Juice ). Over the past 4 seasons, Edler has been the Canucks de facto #1 defenseman. He's played the most TOI/G and he's faced some of the toughest competition. His giveaway numbers are fine for a player in such a role. They are also very acceptable in comparison to his teammates. Here (inside spoiler) is a detailed breakdown of the Canucks D's giveaway rates over the past 4 seasons: 2013-14 season Bieksa: 42 GvA, 14 TkA, 1142:37 TOI, 2.21 GvA/60 Hamhuis: 41 GvA, 31 TkA, 1254:17 TOI, 1.96 GvA/60 Edler: 19 GvA, 12 TkA, 747:51 TOI, 1.52 GvA/60 Garrison: 25 GvA, 18 TkA, 1094:11 TOI, 1.37 GvA/60 Weber: 6 GvA, 3 TkA, 309:11 TOI, 1.16 GvA/60 Stanton: 8 GvA, 10 TkA, 508:13 TOI, 0.95 GvA/60 Tanev: 15 GvA, 15 TkA, 1070:41 TOI, 0.84 GvA/60 So we can say that Edler is debunked but I'll let you vote on it. Now, onto the Sedins, first one, physical games shut the Sedins down. The average number of hits per game that the Canucks’ faced was 22.7. In games with fewer hits than the average, Henrik averaged 1.14 points per game, while Daniel averaged 1.18 points per game. In game with more hits than the average, Henrik’s production rose slightly to 1.16 points per game. In other words, the larger number of hits had no negative impact to his point production whatsoever. Daniel’s production, however, went up by a much more significant amount to 1.37 points per game. That’s right: both Sedins were more productive in games with higher than average hits. But let’s say that more than 22.7 hits is not a high enough number of hits to count as properly tough and physical. Let’s say that 30 or more hits is a better standard. There were 11 such games last season when the Canucks’ opponents had 30 or more hits. In those 11 games, both Sedins had 15 points each, for a 1.36 point per game average. The Sedins’ production didn’t decrease against toughness, it increased. http://vansunsportsb...oft-sedin-myth/ Sedins play-off production is always in question. Welp lets get to it. Henrik Sedin 2010-2011 GP 25 G 3 A 19 P 22 Points Per Game .88 2011-2012 GP 5 G 1 A 3 P 4 Points Per Game .8 2012-2013 GP 4 G 0 A 3 P 3 Points Per Game .75 Total GP 36 G 4 A 25 P 29 Points Per Game .805 Daniel Sedins 2010-2011 GP 25 G 9 A 11 P 20 Points Per Game .8 2011-2012 GP 2 G 0 A 2 P 2 Points Per Game 1.0 2012-2013 GP 4 G 0 A 3 P 3 Points Per Game .75 Total GP 31 G 9 A 16 P 25 Points Per Game .8 Now, the troubling part of all this is, Daniel hasn't scored a goal in the play-offs since Game 2 against Boston in 2011. One thing I will say, Assists don't win games, goals do. That being said, the Sedins still put up points in the play offs. Now final one, the Sedins on decline? No I think that they have become more well rounded and playing defensively sound now. Yes their point totals have dropped but everything else about their game is getting better. They kill penalties and now our PK is near the best in the league. I think they are just following Yzermans foot steps. "Do you want to score goals or win a Stanley Cup" And finally, for Kassian being a bust. kassian 10 goals 4 assists -6 in 44 games while playing mainly 3rd and 4th lines Hodgson 10 goals 14 assists -12 in 38 games while playing first line and PP Kassians shooting percentage is 21.3% with 10 goals on 47 shots. (22nd overall) The kid has come along quite well this season, seems like he is improving every single game. Do I even need to post Lu's #'s for the season? Of course he is still elite!. 2.19 GA .924 SV% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 That the Sedins sleep in bunk beds. Debunked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 That the Sedins sleep in bunk beds. Debunked. Lie's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I agree about debunking the myth that Edler is a giveaway machine. However, I do think that he gets walked around like a pylon the most out of all d-men. Is there a stat that logs scoring chances given up per 60 minutes? Also, as for the Sedins, points don't matter if you let the opposition score more than you when you are on the ice. Their playoff +- numbers is an absolute embarrassment considering they are elite players in the league. Moreover, have you guys seen any other stars in the league that end up on their butts as much as the Sedins? If there was a stat that shows how man times they ended up on the ice compared to how many times they put their check on the ice, the ratio would be something like 1 in 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The Sedin playoff one doesn't debunk anything to be honest. They do have good playoff numbers, but those numbers still aren't as good as the ones they put up in the regular season. Now obviously scoring is lower in the playoffs in general, so you would have to adjust the stats for lower rate of scoring. The Sedins can definitely hold their own in the playoffs, but they haven't dominated as much as they do in the regular season. I agree that they aren't soft, they may not be the most aggressive or punishing, but they are good at battling in the tough areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Lie's They were Lie's bunk beds? Who is Lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Luongo is still elite. If 2.18 and .924 aren't indicative of that then I don't know hockey. I'm glad to see Martin Jones finally tanked and people got off his junk. Large sample sizes generally show the player you really are.. not single digit # of games played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Luongo is still elite. If 2.18 and .924 aren't indicative of that then I don't know hockey. I'm glad to see Martin Jones finally tanked and people got off his junk. Large sample sizes generally show the player you really are.. not single digit # of games played. It's the same as any goalie who starts off hot. People need to realize that teams play more defensively when back ups are in net. That, and sometimes they just get lucky. Look at Bobrovski, Vezina last year....and this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam13371337 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Luongo is still elite. If 2.18 and .924 aren't indicative of that then I don't know hockey. I'm glad to see Martin Jones finally tanked and people got off his junk. Large sample sizes generally show the player you really are.. not single digit # of games played. Pretty much every goalie that plays(or played ) for the kings (scrivens included) is more "elite" then lu by your logic A teams overall defensive play is a big factor in goalie stats.... Lu's biggest criticisms have never been regular season stats.. but untimely chokejobs in the playoffs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:D Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 "Edler's giveaways don't often result in goals against." DEBUNKED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themcdeal Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The sedin myths bugs me the most. I don't know which idiot still cause them soft but the playoff argument is really silly as well. H.Sedin has 54 points in his last 56 playoff games and Daniel has 49 in his last 55. Those are great numbers. Although I dont think Kassian is a bust. It's silly to compare his numbers to Hodgson. Yeah Cody is playing on the first line, but his team sucks. Look at Moulsons numbers before and after joining the Sabres. Hodgson was on pace for 43 points in his rookie year here playing on the third line. They are 2 very different players who will both be very good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sypher009 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Pretty much every goalie that plays(or played ) for the kings (scrivens included) is more "elite" then lu by your logic look at the number of games they played and then look at how many Luongo has played and try again did you not read his post? he said large sample sizes show how good a player really is, and he's right although Quick has shown he is an elite goalie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruthHurts Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Pretty much every goalie that plays(or played ) for the kings (scrivens included) is more "elite" then lu by your logic A teams overall defensive play is a big factor in goalie stats.... Lu's biggest criticisms have never been regular season stats.. but untimely chokejobs in the playoffs.. A goalie is only as good as his defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire_Spiky Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I gotta go with Kassian on this one. you can tell he is developing( maybe a little slowly) but he is getting better and better. You can see the confidence in his game with the plays hes making and its only a matter of time before he really busts out for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 They were Lie's bunk beds? Who is Lie? Morten Lie. He played for the Frederikshavn White Hawks in the Danish leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 At least partially debunked: Gillis has drafted better than Nonis or Burke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Morten Lie. He played for the Frederikshavn White Hawks in the Danish leagues. Ooh, he was pretty much a minor celebrity around there once he started dating the Winter Carnival queen, wasn't he? He had bunk beds too, eh? Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I wouldn't debunk the Edler one just yet. His giveaways seem to come more in the sense of offensive puck possesion, essentially he kills the cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I wouldn't debunk the Edler one just yet. His giveaways seem to come more in the sense of offensive puck possesion, essentially he kills the cycle. On the other hand, the real giveaway machine, aka Bieksa, gives away the puck in defensive puck possessions????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Edler is far better than Hamhuis and bieksa. People just don't like to see it because they're racist and prefer to pump hammers and juices tires. I love all 3 but it's pathetic how people make their assumptions here. Edler is a number 1 dman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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