Horvat Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 not if it means flipping, the 6th+24th + roster player for the #1 Then we draft Reinhart at 1 and Deangelo at 10th Lol deangelo at 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Giroux is smaller than Nylander. He makes big guys look stupid all the time. So is Kane. They do need big guys on their line, in their line up. If a small guy is more athletic, more fit, more talented than a big guy, it should be an easy decision. Remember Santorelli winning Totorella's 2 mile race? No surprise he had a better year than many of the big guys who did not show up in shape. Talent should be the number one draft ingredient. Athleticism and fitness level 2knd. Size 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 As far as competition goes, it's way better than any CHL league. It doesn't mean that the league itself produces more NHL calibre players than CHL, but it's a way tougher league. I guess it depends on which players you're talking about. I doubt that there are too many players from the CHL that would be physically dominant in Allsvenskan or in the SHL. If we're not leaning towards the more skilled option in Nylander, then i think Ritchie is a way more interesting option than Virtanen. I also think that he's a safer option than Virtanen. If you're gonna bring up what "scouts are saying about Nylander", then you should also bring up that there are plenty of scouts that are questioning Virtanens high-end potential. Doesn't really sound 6th overall worthy to me. Don't you think it's unfair to compare a 5'8 with a 18 year old 5'11 player that could even grow an inch, or even 2? To me, that's like comparing oranges with bananas. Sure, Nylander is not huge, but don't make him sound like a dwarf. Also, Nylander is a better skater than Schroeder, and his hockey IQ is also higher. They're nothing alike. The reason why the Canucks drafted Schroeder was because he was a top-rated player in the draft. Top 5 on the NA skaters list. He dominated the NCAA at a very young age, and even had a successful u20 tournament under his belt. There was a risk there for sure, because of his size for an instance. Canucks management gambled hard when they picked Schroeder. As Gillis said, they didn't think that Schroeder would be available at their spot, so they picked him. They thought he was the BPA. He didn't pan out great, but neither did Scott Glennie or Magnus Paajarvi who were selected earlier. Now we are in a great position. We have the 6th overall, and we have a feeling of which players will be there at our spot. There's a group of players that will most likely go top5, outside of that, there are a few players that are 6th overall worthy. None of those are heavily undersized, like Schroeder was/is. Can't really compare the situation we're in now, with the situation we were in when we picked Schroeder at 22.I haven't heard many scouts question Virtanen's high end 'potential' actually. Just the consistency. There would be a rolling of the dice in that regard, but his speed and shot set him apart from Ritchie, who's also good, but a bit different. I fear for him because people are going to want Lucic from him, but he's got an injury history and a tendency to take bad penalties, unlike Lucic. He's more like a Clowe imho. I don't see Burke passing on him though. The Schroeder pick busting is what i'd like to call foreseeable. And i can't help but feel that Nylander will end up being not like Schroeder, who's an outright bust, but a qualcomp-type player who vanishes in big games against big teams. Like Raymond and, well, the Sedins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Here's an idea of who might be available at 36. 1 to 5 - Ekblad, Bennett, Reinhart, Draisaitl, Dal Colle 6 to 11 - Nylander, Ehlers, Virtanen, Ritchie, Perlini 12 to 17 - Fleury, Fabbri, Larkin, Tuch, Milano 18 to 23 - Honka, Fiala, Barbashev, Kempe, McCann 24 to 29 - Vrana, Scherbak, McKeown, Schmaltz, Bleackley 30 to 36 - Kamenev, Goldobin, Demko, Lemieux, Pastrnak. Any of those players I am fine with, I prefer a player like Vrana, Scherbak, Bleackley, to drop and they might because teams will go off the boards to draft a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Anybody think Nylander compares to Chicago's Teuvo Teravainen? Undersized forward with high end skill. He didn't go until 18th overall but he would have gone much higher in this years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The Schroeder pick busting is what i'd like to call foreseeable. And i can't help but feel that Nylander will end up being not like Schroeder, who's an outright bust, but a qualcomp-type player who vanishes in big games against big teams. Like Raymond and, well, the Sedins.Rick Nash, Patrick Marleau and Joe Thornton are even worse than the Sedins in big games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 If passing to the other pointman on the power play is 'dominant' then yes. Didn't he have a 7-point night featuring this play? The other pointman apparently had a pretty hard shot. Too much is being put into this performance imho. It's not transferable. You have to go beyond a narrow amount of games against some pretty weak competition if you want a better grasp of what the production is imho. The one goal in 22 shl games is a concern to me. This is well behind Backstrom's draft year pace. Backstrom became a ppg shl player the year after he was drafted. Will Nylander? Doubtful. But why does this matter? Well, if Nylander is reportedly horrible at defense like most amateur scouts say, then he'll need to put up Backstrom-like offense to counter it. Otherwise he'll be in the doghouse more often that not. If that offense isn't there then he may become a well-sheltered qualcomp player. That just doesn't sound too exciting to me. I would much rather have a guy who the coach wouldn't be scared to play against top opponents in any situation. For this draft at #6 i didn't expect an elite talent anyway. It's not there at 6. It might not even be there at 1 or 2. The Canucks would be better suited chosing a low-risk, big, fast dependable winger type like Virtanen than a low-percentage chance at being one-dimensionally elite, small qualcomp-type player like Sergei Shirokov, er, Willie Nylander. If the Canucks had made moves like what i'm suggesting in the past, they'd probably have ROR instead of Schroeder. Makes sense, doesn't it? Im sure many of the questions Nylander was fielded at the combine were defense related. If teams think he will buy in they will take him. Hes too skilled not to take a gamble on in a weaker draft at 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Lol. The guy had 1 point. 1 assist in 7 games. That's not what you wanna see from 1 of your top players, no matter what they do on the ice. You're not gonna win if your top players don't produce. Verhaege wasn't great in the playoffs, but he was still waaaaaaaay better than Perlini. And general opinion is that Perlini wasn't that noticeable at all, a disappointment for sure. Then tell me, how do you know that Nylander wants to be a "superstar", more than anything? And would you kindly define exactly what a superstar is? This sounds like preconceptions to me, just like this attitude thing surrounding Nylander that someone just made up. Also, these guys are 18/19 years old. They're not complete hockey players. Sure, Nylander might not be the best player in the draft defensively (not that he's awful like people here are stating), but it doesn't mean he will be better in that regard in the future. He will never be your typical shut-down center, but he will most likely be a more defensively aware player. The Kings proved this logic wrong. Kopitar had 2 assists in the Cup Finals, Carter had 1 goal, Gaborik had 2 goals. Those three are probably LAs best offensive threat and they won the Cup, without them putting up big numbers. Ummm.......maybe it has something to do with his Twitter page, where it says, "give me the puck" at the top. You can tell just by looking at his highlight reels, when his team is down, he's a puck hog and tries to do everything himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horvat Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The Kings proved this logic wrong. Kopitar had 2 assists in the Cup Finals, Carter had 1 goal, Gaborik had 2 goals. Those three are probably LAs best offensive threat and they won the Cup, without them putting up big numbers. Ummm.......maybe it has something to do with his Twitter page, where it says, "give me the puck" at the top. You can tell just by looking at his highlight reels, when his team is down, he's a puck hog and tries to do everything himself. Wait so hes really clutch? How do you nylander haters find a way to put a negative spin on every attribute, everybody knows he's going 6th so why are you even arguing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Rick Nash, Patrick Marleau and Joe Thornton are even worse than the Sedins in big games.All of them face tougher minutes though. But you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 You numbskulls are too absorbed in this size-debate! Take Danny Devito...great actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Im sure many of the questions Nylander was fielded at the combine were defense related. If teams think he will buy in they will take him. Hes too skilled not to take a gamble on in a weaker draft at 6th.Agreed he'll buy in. To a degree though. He's going to be picked for whatever offense he can muster and if he's not getting a legit shot in due time... I think picks farther down the line than 6th overall you can afford to milk in development for years and years. Detroit does this year after year. The Canucks tend to go a bit to early for their small skill risk picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 This is exactly how I feel: http://www.puckrant.com/fire_and_ice/Whos_going_to_be_the_bust/3543 Nylander has the greatest risk of busting followed by Ehlers then Draisaitl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 This is exactly how I feel: http://www.puckrant.com/fire_and_ice/Whos_going_to_be_the_bust/3543 Nylander has the greatest risk of busting followed by Ehlers then Draisaitl. Ya I agree with this write up as well. Anytime you are taking a smaller player it's a risk if he will ever even make it to the nhl. Added to this is the fact that they're European, and the reports of attitude problems from Nylander that had him bounce between 4 teams and 3 leagues. The risk factor is just huge on Nylander / Ehlers, you gotta go with the safer pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyShackleford Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 This is exactly how I feel: http://www.puckrant.com/fire_and_ice/Whos_going_to_be_the_bust/3543 Nylander has the greatest risk of busting followed by Ehlers then Draisaitl. I guess if you are not from NA that raises the chances of a player busting? Good logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyShackleford Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Ya I agree with this write up as well. Anytime you are taking a smaller player it's a risk if he will ever even make it to the nhl. Added to this is the fact that they're European, and the reports of attitude problems from Nylander that had him bounce between 4 teams and 3 leagues. The risk factor is just huge on Nylander / Ehlers, you gotta go with the safer pick. No pick is a safe pick in the draft thats why u roll the dice and go with the best skilled player like Ehlers or Nylander. Also what does the fact of being European have to do with not being able to play in the nhl? the best winger,center and goalie this playoffs were Euro (Gaborik-Kopitar-Lunqvist) so why the hate toward euros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenman92 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 No pick is a safe pick in the draft thats why u roll the dice and go with the best skilled player like Ehlers or Nylander. Also what does the fact of being European have to do with not being able to play in the nhl? the best winger,center and goalie this playoffs were Euro (Gaborik-Kopitar-Lunqvist) so why the hate toward euros? I'd take desire over skill all day long. I don't care how good your hands/skating/shot is if you don't feel like playing after getting punched in the face. And that happens a whole lot more to the Euros then it does to Canadians and Americans. I actually like some of the Euros, but of all the top ranked guys, I see Nylander as being the most likely to take his ball and go home if it gets too tough out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I guess if you are not from NA that raises the chances of a player busting? Good logic It's nice that you demonstrate your well sounded logic with an unfounded assumption. You could have gone with "I guess you think because they have an "R" in their names that raises their chances of busting". Nice straw man though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I guess if you are not from NA that raises the chances of a player busting? Good logic Are you stupid? There's always a chance that a european can't make the transition from the big ice to small ice. We don't know if they can handle the added NA physicality. We also don't know how their number stack up because they don't absorb huge minutes since they play with men and it's hard to compare their numbers to other draft eligibles since they don't play in the same league as many of them. That's for Europeans in general. And then there's the added risk like size and potential attitude issues coming from Nylander and the size issue from Ehlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyShackleford Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Are you stupid? There's always a chance that a european can't make the transition from the big ice to small ice. We don't know if they can handle the added NA physicality. We also don't know how their number stack up because they don't absorb huge minutes since they play with men and it's hard to compare their numbers to other draft eligibles since they don't play in the same league as many of them. That's for Europeans in general. And then there's the added risk like size and potential attitude issues coming from Nylander and the size issue from Ehlers. Ehlers? Draisaitl? both ripped up the CHL this year so their goes your point. You have brought great shame to yourself for that simple minded post now no soup for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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