oldnews Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I like Schwartz but he better not be the centerpiece of a deal is all im saying. If it was Stewart and Schwartz for Kesler id be interested. There's a reason Stewart is being shopped by one of the better puck possession teams in the NHL. http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?s=29&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f5=STL&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67# http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?s=29&f1=2011_s&f2=5v5&f5=STL&f7=10-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67 http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?s=30&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f5=STL&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67# Consistently poor underlying numbers with high offensive zone starts. He's an overpaid, not particularly hard working player who struggles mightily against quality defenses. Over-rated. Toronto should be interested. He'd fit right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 There's a reason Stewart is being shopped by one of the better puck possession teams in the NHL. http://www.behindthe...34 45 46 63 67# http://www.behindthe... 34 45 46 63 67 http://www.behindthe...34 45 46 63 67# Consistently poor underlying numbers with high offensive zone starts. He's an overpaid, not particularly hard working player who struggles mightily against quality defenses. Over-rated. Toronto should be interested. He'd fit right in. Thanks for posting, I agree, i really have never seen that much value in Stewart especially at $4.135M per Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 At the deadline, assuming all players agree to waive their respective clauses: CBJ R. Kesler A. Edler 1st 2014 1st 2016 (Conditional, CBJ receives if Kesler walks as UFA) VAN R. Umberger R. Johansen B. Jenner 1st 2015 The only way the numbers work is if the Canucks retain 50% of Kesler's salary for the duration of his contract. CBJ getting Kesler @ 50% = Johansen straight up, and Edler = Umberger, Jenner and 1st (Roster player, prospect, pick). Canucks this year: Sedin - Sedin - Umberger Higgins - Johansen - Kassian Burrows - Jenner - Hansen Booth - Richardson - Lain Hamhuis - Tanev Garrison - Bieksa Stanton - Diaz Luongo Lack This maximizes Kesler's value, we lose the intangibles be brings but add youth, skill and size, not to mention still being competitive. Once Booth falls off, Shinkaruk should be ready, along with Gaunce/Horvat to make the club. Conversely, looking @ CBJ's top 9, and top 6 Gaborik - Kesler - Horton Foligno - Dubinsky - Atkinson Comeau - Anisimov - Letstu Edler - Wisniewski Johnson - Murray Tyutin - Nikitin Bobrovsky Vancouver trades elite players in their prime needing a fresh start to CBJ for youth and skill, along with some veteran presence to help out the young guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Look at Sobotka's QoC and zone starts. Richardson gets way tougher comp and welllll below avg d-zone starts (he's getting Malhotra'd). Sobotka isn't an upgrade IMO. If he was a UFA, sure make him an offer as a 4C - but as a piece for a player like Kes - no way. I do think Richardson is a 4C - this team still needs a legitimate 3C. Ya, agree about Schwartz. Does he play C on the Blues? He's a little guy - makes me a bit nervous in a beastly W. conference. Where'd u hear Blues were interested? Comparing apples to oranges doesn't really concern me that much. Look at the entire St Louis Blues offensive zone starts. Sobotka falls 19th. Backes is 2nd last at 45.6%. No one under 40%. The point here is not to replace or compare Sobotka to Richardson. I love Richardson and I realize how valuable he is - that is pretty much irrelevent. If this team is moving Kesler, then it's pretty much written in stone that they take a center or two back. When this team has a couple centers of Richardson's quality in the bottom six, then they'll have SC depth. Imo Sobotka is one of the better 3rd line centers in the NHL - with the kind of upside that puts him in a category with Higgins and Hansen as one of the most productive two way 3rd liners in the NHL - and an apt tweener that can be moved up the lineup when the need is there. And Sobotka isn't the principal in this deal. If you don't see the value there, throw in a pick or prospect - he is very under-rated. Schwartz can play all three (forward) positions, has 42 points as a 21 yr old playing great two way hockey on a conservative Blues club. I'm really not looking to obsess over a player's size - if you want size so badly, substitute Tarasenko if that suits you, but I think Schwartz is more dynamic and versatile - and I'd take him over Schenn as well. Both of these guys are very cap and RFA friendly. I haven't heard from Botchford, Dreger or Eklund that St Louis is interested. It's my opinion that he'd be a great fit there, and that he'd probably be interested in going to a club like that, where he arguable also steps in as their top line center - as he was on team USA. But let me clarify something - my preference would be Johansen - not that convinced that Columbus is very likely. I'd also take a package of Dubinsky and Jenner from the CBJ. I'd like a Couturier package, but imo it would require them throwing in another premier asset (I like Couturier, but I'm not getting silly blowing his value out of proportion). I like Detroit's youth, but I don't see the center I'd want coming out of Detroit, unless the Canucks were to opt for a young top 6 winger, prospect and depth center like Helm in a deal. Toronto I can't take seriously. If they want to offer Reilly, a 1st (lottery pick next year lol), and Bozak, I might listen, but Kadri and one of their B prospects is a non-starter imo. CBJ probably has the best options while St Louis might be the situation Kesler would want to go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 At the deadline, assuming all players agree to waive their respective clauses: CBJ R. Kesler A. Edler 1st 2014 1st 2016 (Conditional, CBJ receives if Kesler walks as UFA) VAN R. Umberger R. Johansen B. Jenner 1st 2015 The only way the numbers work is if the Canucks retain 50% of Kesler's salary for the duration of his contract. CBJ getting Kesler @ 50% = Johansen straight up, and Edler = Umberger, Jenner and 1st (Roster player, prospect, pick). Canucks this year: Sedin - Sedin - Umberger Higgins - Johansen - Kassian Burrows - Jenner - Hansen Booth - Richardson - Lain Hamhuis - Tanev Garrison - Bieksa Stanton - Diaz Luongo Lack This maximizes Kesler's value, we lose the intangibles be brings but add youth, skill and size, not to mention still being competitive. Once Booth falls off, Shinkaruk should be ready, along with Gaunce/Horvat to make the club. Conversely, looking @ CBJ's top 9, and top 6 Gaborik - Kesler - Horton Foligno - Dubinsky - Atkinson Comeau - Anisimov - Letstu Edler - Wisniewski Johnson - Murray Tyutin - Nikitin Bobrovsky Vancouver trades elite players in their prime needing a fresh start to CBJ for youth and skill, along with some veteran presence to help out the young guys. so then you're giving them 2 first round picks out of the goodness of your heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Murray and johanssen have more value than kesler and edler? Seriously????? Umm....yes. 2nd and 4th overall picks in recent drafts are very valuable on their own let alone combined in a package together. It was said the Islanders offered CBJ all of their picks in the 2012 draft for Murray and they still said no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 so then you're giving them 2 first round picks out of the goodness of your heart? Missed a couple of edits apparently, the two firsts, are basically to even out the fact that we'd be getting two very very good YOUNG centers, one of which is conditional on Kesler walking as a UFA. If he re-signs, we keep our 2016 pick; it's meant as a cost certainty measure for CBJ to mitigate the risk of giving up both Johansen AND Jenner. so it effectively could be as basic as swapping our pick this year (potential top 10) in a weak draft for a mid round pick (potentially higher if things go sideways) in a deep draft, while keeping our own 2015 pick. I like the idea of picking up Umberger as his remaining term aligns nicely with the new Sedin term, and playing on their line I can see him equating to a 60+ point player (he flirted with the 60pt mark 4 and 5 seasons ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Umm....yes. 2nd and 4th overall picks in recent drafts are very valuable on their own let alone combined in a package together. It was said the Islanders offered CBJ all of their picks in the 2012 draft for Murray and they still said no. I still can't believe the Isles offered that and I can't believe Clb said 'no.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niklas Jensen Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Kesler for John freakin Tavares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Kesler for John freakin Tavares Why would you waste your time even typing that? / Hey, look, I responded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Joneson Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I still can't believe the Isles offered that and I can't believe Clb said 'no.' It's not that crazy they were basically trading Griffin Reinhart for Ryan Murray who was considered a can't miss defensive prospect. Columbus already had the top pick secured for each round. I wouldn't have done it either. If the Islanders offered their 4th overall pick and their 1st round pick in 2013 then that's different. Look at Calgary supposedly offering Colorado all 3 of their 1st round draft picks at the last draft for the 1st overall and that included the 6th overall. Nobody batted an eye that Colorado didn't accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessReilly Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Not that I support moving kesler but if it must be done........ Kesler & Hansen for Alex Chaisson, B. Dillon and a 2nd. Adds size and youth while creating cap space. DIllon is a Stud, homegrown d-man who makes edler expendable for a trade, Chaisson is a big young winger who has had made a great transition to the NHL, putting up points and a young age while remaining physical. Trade Edler and schroder and a 3rd for an offensive 2nd line center(nyquist) 3rd line LW (Abdelkader) and pick (1st) Danny-hank-Kass Higgy-Nyquist-Burr Abdelkader-Horvat-Chaisson Sestito-Richy-Archie Lain-Dalpe Hammer-Garry Dillon-Bieksa Stanton-Tanev Corrado-Diaz AHL Gaunce Jens Shink Grenier Fox Tommerenes Subban Suave Cassels ETC..... Adding those two early picks will help re-stock, and who knows what free agency or other trades might do....BUY OUT BOOTH also, even though he has been physical on the forcheck thats not worth 4 million... Anyway let me know what you think. FIrst Post. Been reading CDC for years now though Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_The_Schneid! Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 To CBJ: Kesler Hansen To Van: Johanssen Gaborik (for cap reasons) Potentially a 2nd round pick to one of the teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 To CBJ: Kesler Hansen To Van: Johanssen Gaborik (for cap reasons) Potentially a 2nd round pick to one of the teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Not that I support moving kesler but if it must be done........ Kesler & Hansen for Alex Chaisson, B. Dillon and a 2nd. Adds size and youth while creating cap space. DIllon is a Stud, homegrown d-man who makes edler expendable for a trade, Chaisson is a big young winger who has had made a great transition to the NHL, putting up points and a young age while remaining physical. Trade Edler and schroder and a 3rd for an offensive 2nd line center(nyquist) 3rd line LW (Abdelkader) and pick (1st) Danny-hank-Kass Higgy-Nyquist-Burr Abdelkader-Horvat-Chaisson Sestito-Richy-Archie Lain-Dalpe Hammer-Garry Dillon-Bieksa Stanton-Tanev Corrado-Diaz AHL Gaunce Jens Shink Grenier Fox Tommerenes Subban Suave Cassels ETC..... Adding those two early picks will help re-stock, and who knows what free agency or other trades might do....BUY OUT BOOTH also, even though he has been physical on the forcheck thats not worth 4 million... Anyway let me know what you think. FIrst Post. Been reading CDC for years now though Cheers! Awful, just awful. Dillon and Chiasson are probably both worth around a 2nd each. That's three 2nds for Kesler and Hansen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 When did this thread turn in to the (bad) proposals section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpop45 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 At the deadline, assuming all players agree to waive their respective clauses: CBJ R. Kesler A. Edler 1st 2014 1st 2016 (Conditional, CBJ receives if Kesler walks as UFA) VAN R. Umberger R. Johansen B. Jenner 1st 2015 The only way the numbers work is if the Canucks retain 50% of Kesler's salary for the duration of his contract. CBJ getting Kesler @ 50% = Johansen straight up, and Edler = Umberger, Jenner and 1st (Roster player, prospect, pick). Canucks this year: Sedin - Sedin - Umberger Higgins - Johansen - Kassian Burrows - Jenner - Hansen Booth - Richardson - Lain Hamhuis - Tanev Garrison - Bieksa Stanton - Diaz Luongo Lack This maximizes Kesler's value, we lose the intangibles be brings but add youth, skill and size, not to mention still being competitive. Once Booth falls off, Shinkaruk should be ready, along with Gaunce/Horvat to make the club. Conversely, looking @ CBJ's top 9, and top 6 Gaborik - Kesler - Horton Foligno - Dubinsky - Atkinson Comeau - Anisimov - Letstu Edler - Wisniewski Johnson - Murray Tyutin - Nikitin Bobrovsky Vancouver trades elite players in their prime needing a fresh start to CBJ for youth and skill, along with some veteran presence to help out the young guys. dont mind this deal; but i still have a hard time thinking columbus gives up ryan johansen. not to mention boone jenner as well. i give you credit though, it would take a creative deal like this to get johansen out of columbus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessReilly Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Awful, just awful. Dillon and Chiasson are probably both worth around a 2nd each. That's three 2nds for Kesler and Hansen. Okay fair enough, Add Guptill and its deal imo. I think DIllion has more value then you think however. Guptil a 2nd dillon and chiasson is a boatload of size talent and meets our needs in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 It's not that crazy they were basically trading Griffin Reinhart for Ryan Murray who was considered a can't miss defensive prospect. Columbus already had the top pick secured for each round. I wouldn't have done it either. If the Islanders offered their 4th overall pick and their 1st round pick in 2013 then that's different. Look at Calgary supposedly offering Colorado all 3 of their 1st round draft picks at the last draft for the 1st overall and that included the 6th overall. Nobody batted an eye that Colorado didn't accept that. I still think it is. There wasn't that much difference in Murray and Reinhart at the draft and I'm still not sure there is now. If they'd gotten those assets they could have parlayed them into a goalie, say Lou for example, sometime over the last 2 years and they'd be in the playoffs today if they had. The Calgary deal I get more because Mackinnon could be viewed as a franchise player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Okay fair enough, Add Guptill and its deal imo. I think DIllion has more value then you think however. Guptil a 2nd dillon and chiasson is a boatload of size talent and meets our needs in the future We'll never see eye to eye on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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