shiznak Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Why did I bring it up? To compare and it's a very good comparison at that. Also, Kes now is > Richards when he got traded so you basically beat your own point for me. Kes is signed short term to a very reasonable deal. If traded to Philly let's say, huge % he resigns there cause they'll become contenders and if I'm not mistake, he's the one who signed the offer sheet from them initially. In this case, Kes's contract and play > Richards when he was traded which therefore = more value...Kesler is also a 40 goal scorer and leading goal scorer on this team without having any reason isle linemates. You really think Kesler is worth more now than Richards when he was traded? Mike Richards' last three seasons with Philadelphia, he had a combine 208 points. while Kesler's last FOUR seasons he had 173 points. Richards was always considered one of the best two-way players, at that time too. Going up against Crosby, Ovechkin, and Zetterberg in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Digging deep here..but who's the only bloke that'll side with former ultimate-insider/hockey-Godfather, Eagleson. Publicly, only Bobby Clarke would officially speak up for him. Likely Clarke is Snider's poodle. Thus Ed Snider must probably hate MG. After being betrayed/manipulated by Eagleson(like so many, including the geat Orr) Gillis straightened him out in court. I like that MG will stand up to the bullies/powerbrokers in this league; but it'll probably never be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 You really think Kesler is worth more now than Richards when he was traded? Mike Richards' last three seasons with Philadelphia, he had a combine 208 points. while Kesler's last FOUR seasons he had 173 points. Richards was always considered one of the best two-way players, at that time too. Going up against Crosby, Ovechkin, and Zetterberg in the playoffs. He's never played Zetterberg in the playoffs than cause they're in complete different conference lol and so what? Kesler went up against Thornton/Couture/Pavelski, Kopitar, Toews/Kane/Sharp, etc lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Was autocorrect. Meant to say could of but would of was written down instead. And okay, you're right. Let's just take this for comparison: Guessing your team is the Ducks. When they missed the playoffs and Getzlaf didn't hit 20 goals for 4 straight seasons, why didn't you just trade him for a guy like Couturier and Read? Oh yea, cause it's not the best return you can get. ..Just cause you have a valuable and someone bids something worth a fraction of it doesn't mean you do it. Getzlaf isn't a goal scorer, to begin with and he was still a point per game player (aside from the 2011 season) during those 3 years. That's why he's would fetch more than Kesler. Getzlaf is a franchise #1 center, while Kesler is a 1st/2nd line winger or a 3rd center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Is the 2nd part true? Well, who knows. Many people are reporting the same thing, so....... 'if' it is true, makes me wonder what the heck happened between Kes and this team. Cause that would be a seriously amateur hour bush league move to do a team who employs some of your best buddies and /drafted/developed/paid you. Yeah I have no idea, it's interesting though. Got my curiosity piqued. There was this little excerpt from The Stanchion's piece on Canucks Army this morning, sitting in the press gallery at the St Louis game: - Despite the exhilarating game going on, people begin talking on press row, swapping info on Kesler, trying to decode if he was happy in Vancouver, or if it made sense he wanted out. Being on the bottom end of the totem pole, I won't say what was said, but lots of random side stories were bandied about over Kesler; stuff that was said to them off the record and such, and his mind set over certain things that had happened the last couple of seasons. The conclusion was that yes, where there is smoke, there is indeed fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 You really think Kesler is worth more now than Richards when he was traded? Mike Richards' last three seasons with Philadelphia, he had a combine 208 points. while Kesler's last FOUR seasons he had 173 points. Richards was always considered one of the best two-way players, at that time too. Going up against Crosby, Ovechkin, and Zetterberg in the playoffs. Holmgren didnt like his partying ways and it was well documented. Pretty much just like the Seguin sega. Look at the return he still got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Getzlaf isn't a goal scorer, to begin with and he was still a point per game player (aside from the 2011 season) during those 3 years. That's why he's would fetch more than Kesler. Getzlaf is a franchise #1 center, while Kesler is a 1st/2nd line winger or a 3rd center. Make up your mind. Is Kesler a first , second or third liner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Kesler is a 1st/2nd line winger or a 3rd center. Columbus wants Kesler so he can be 3rd line centre. Oh wait, and don't say he'd be higher up cause CBJ has weak centres cause firstly they don't and secondly if they do in your opinion, he was only the FIRST line centre on team USA... ..take off the Kesler hate glasses. It's so obvious how much you hate him you can't even evaluate him honestly without letting your emotions get the best out of you. I'm done loool. 3rd line centre. Okay, you won.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 He's never played Zetterberg in the playoffs than cause they're in complete different conference lol and so what? Kesler went up against Thornton/Couture/Pavelski, Kopitar, Toews/Kane/Sharp, etc lol. Regardless, Richards was still the better player back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Columbus wants Kesler so he can be 3rd line centre. Oh wait, and don't say he'd be higher up cause CBJ has weak centres cause firstly they don't and secondly if they do in your opinion, he was only the FIRST line centre on team USA... For years now, it seem like we've been trying to find the right players for Kesler. People need to realize that it's not his linemates that's the problem, it's him. He's not an ideal 2nd line center, certainly not a player who you can rely on to anchor his own line. He needs elite players to help him produce (ala Burrows). Best option for the team is to trade him for depth in our lineup and/or a bluechip prospects, since his value is still fairly high. Centers should usually make their linemates better, not to rely on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayRayDown Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Regardless, Richards was still the better player back then. Atleast get your facts right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 If/When Kesler gets dealt, so many fans here aren't going to like the value returned. Come on guys, be a bit realistic. Kesler is nearly 30, hasn't been the same offensively since he went through those injuries a couple of years back and has an NTC. Richards got Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd and that might be a similar ballpark for Kesler if Vancouver is lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 If/When Kesler gets dealt, so many fans here aren't going to like the value returned. Come on guys, be a bit realistic. Kesler is nearly 30, hasn't been the same offensively since he went through those injuries a couple of years back and has an NTC. Richards got Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd which would likely be a similar ballpark to Kesler if Vancouver is lucky. Realistic? Your talking about lowering expectations then say your seeing a Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd trade? Id take that and run myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 He doesn't need elite forwards to make his success, just top 6 linemates. Not hard to figure. Give Richards/Bergeron Higgins and Booth and in exchange give Kes their linemates, magically those other 2 suck now all of a sudden, mhmmm... And no one said Kesler is capable of making his crappy linemates better. He isn't Crosby. He just needs 2nd line calibre teammates that's all. You're making it sound like he needs Crosby and Yzerman to succeed. The one time he had close to 2nd line teammates, he was a 40 goal scorer with Samuelsson alongside him and when Sundin was with him, he began clicking and maturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thats another doozy.... glad you guys arent Gillis. Doubting how much you know about these players tbh. St Louis is interested? Schwartz is interesting - good underlying #'s, but he's tiny. I'd take him over Sutter, but not over Johansen or Stepha. No interest in Sobotka, not an upgrade over Richardson. Tough crowd tonight: Yeah, Johansen is obviously a the top of the shortlist. But... Sobotka has some of the best underlying #s on the Blues: http://www.behindthe...34 45 46 63 67# 60.9% in the faceoff circle - one of, if not the best in the NHL. 25 points (not bad for a 3rd line center), +17, 21 takeaways / 6 giveaways (+15). Pretty consistent in all those respects over the past three years. One of the best lesser-known big bang for the bucks in the NHL imo. $1.3 million RFA. Schwartz with similarly outstanding underlying numbers. 42 points, +22 45 takeaways, 11 giveaways +34 Great speed, solid two way forward that can play all three positions - very good faceoff guy (56.9%), particularly for a 21 yr old. Not really that small at 190lbs. ELC. Schwartz would make the 2nd line that much more dangerous, and Sobotka would make the 3rd that much more difficult to play against, moving Richardson to the fourth line, while Schwartz would also push another top 9 onto the fourth line. The fourth line all of a sudden is a borderline 3rd. Tortorella would have a hell of a pair of bottom 6 lines to roll and create possession for the top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Realistic? Your talking about lowering expectations then say your seeing a Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd trade? Id take that and run myself. That's if Vancouver hits a home run. I doubt they get that much for Kesler, especially considering the potential of Schenn and Simmonds at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckbeliever Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 If/When Kesler gets dealt, so many fans here aren't going to like the value returned. Come on guys, be a bit realistic. Kesler is nearly 30, hasn't been the same offensively since he went through those injuries a couple of years back and has an NTC. Richards got Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd and that might be a similar ballpark for Kesler if Vancouver is lucky. That is on the high end of things.... If/When Kesler gets dealt, so many fans here aren't going to like the value returned. Come on guys, be a bit realistic. Kesler is nearly 30, hasn't been the same offensively since he went through those injuries a couple of years back and has an NTC. Richards got Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd and that might be a similar ballpark for Kesler if Vancouver is lucky. Agree with what you said but thats on high end of things. It completely depends on whether they can drive up price significantly through the "competition" between teams. The two teams where Van could maximize value (Philly/Nyr) probably wont happen due to diff reasons. RunningWild mentioned the Holmgren Gillis beef that botch referred to and Kes isnt fan of AV. Next best team from Canucks perspective where they could maximize value would be columbus imo but dont see Kes waiving NTC to play on the jackets. That leaves 1 of pittsburgh, detroit or a very long shot of Toronto. Best package can probably come from Detroit though van wouldnt be getting a center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Tough crowd tonight: Sobotka has some of the best underlying #s on the Blues: http://www.behindthe...34 45 46 63 67# 60.9% in the faceoff circle - one of, if not the best in the NHL. 25 points (not bad for a 3rd line center), +17, 21 takeaways / 6 giveaways (+15). Pretty consistent in all those respects over the past three years. One of the best lesser-known big bang for the bucks in the NHL imo. $1.3 million RFA. Schwartz with similarly outstanding underlying numbers. 42 points, +22 45 takeaways, 11 giveaways +34 Great speed, solid two way forward that can play all three positions - very good faceoff guy (56.9%), particularly for a 21 yr old. Not really that small at 190lbs. ELC. We dont want small guys. He is my size and thats small for NHL standards. Hes a good player but for Kesler no way. Schwarts is perfect for the team he is on. Hes on a big team and this way he can play his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 He doesn't need elite forwards to make his success, just top 6 linemates. Not hard to figure. Give Richards/Bergeron Higgins and Booth and in exchange give Kes their linemates, magically those other 2 suck now all of a sudden, mhmmm... And no one said Kesler is capable of making his crappy linemates better. He isn't Crosby. He just needs 2nd line calibre teammates that's all. You're making it sound like he needs Crosby and Yzerman to succeed. The one time he had close to 2nd line teammates, he was a 40 goal scorer with Samuelsson alongside him and when Sundin was with him, he began clicking and maturing. You make it seem like Higgins and Booth are not capable of being second liners. Both have played top minutes on other teams. So, how are they any different from Samuelsson? I think Booth played his best hockey in Vancouver, when Kesler isn't his linemate. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Realistic? Your talking about lowering expectations then say your seeing a Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd trade? Id take that and run myself. We dont want small guys. He is my size and thats small for NHL standards. Hes a good player but for Kesler no way. Schwarts is perfect for the team he is on. Hes on a big team and this way he can play his game. Brayden Schenn 190lbs Jaden Schwartz 190lbs Simmonds 183 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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