messier's_elbow Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Has BMac had any tweets about Kesler lately? I trust him over any of these other clowns. That Rossi guy from Pitts is a joke. Sheros puppet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Frankly, I am surprised at some of the hatred Sutter has received over his necessary inclusion in this deal. Cap wise Pittsburgh has to send back something to make it work financially, and he wasn't/isn't ever going to be a cornerstone in the deal. Call him a bonus I say. Assets and picks will still arrive from the Pens in a deal is struck. Also, I have stated that Maata is the biggest piece of any deal I would like back from Shero if a deal was made, but having thought about it over a few pints, and reading other posters opinions, I am warming to the idea of Pouliot coming back because he really could be an example of what we truly lacked since Ehrhoff left. PMD with offensive upside. If he even brushed up against what Keith does for the Hawks on our team I would consider that outstanding. Yeah I know you did/do put thought into all of your posts, that wasn't to slight your post or opinion, it was just for funs. Basically I excitedly rushed that quip before going back 8 pages to catch up on what I missed while working today. It's too bad that the CBA didn't allow cap space to be retained, and not just salary. We could thereby retain 2 mil of Kes/Booth cap until the offseason when Pitts could have more time to get their house in order, and take their assets. I've been trying to get people to understand that too about Sutter. He isn't the centrepiece, no, but he is a good asset. I think we could get him signed for around $3.25 for 4 years. If sometime into that deal, because Horvat and the boys are ready to make him redundant, then we could use him as a chip to get something else. Also, we could let him sit out there in RFA status after qualifying him and see what offers come in. If he gets offered Gagner money then we take the compensation. With the cap going up I see no downside to having Sutter be part of the deal. The CBA does allow for salary cap to be retained, as a function of salary. We can't 'trade cap' per se but we can retain 50% of Booth's salary and cap hit for this year and next. At least, that's my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Wonder if Vancouver scratches Kesler tomorrow night. A scratch means we are trading Kesler no matter what by Wednesday. Playing means we are just exploring options. We are holding our breaths. Hey even if nothing is imminent he should be scratched as the risk is too great. Same with Edler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Umberger is a great piece. He isn't just a throw in. We would have to add Hansen, I suspect. He is. We're just kind of running with the idea that his contract is a bit lofty, and that he might get in the way of Kesler waiving, so they'd have to 'throw' his 3 remaining years at 4.6 (and on the cusp of 32nd birthday) in and take Booth's underachievement and his expiring after next season contract in order to make it work. Realistically he'd lower the rest of the return somewhat. Kesler Booth Dubinsky Umberger Jenner Erixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Kesler is a much bigger piece. The piece we were speculating on was Booth. The compensation for Kesler was already mostly included, a la Wennberg, Jenner, 1st This was to facilitate a 'peace deal.' He is. We're just kind of running with the idea that his contract is a bit lofty, and that he might get in the way of Kesler waiving, so they'd have to 'throw' his 3 remaining years at 4.6 (and on the cusp of 32nd birthday) in and take Booth's underachievement and his expiring after next season contract in order to make it work. Realistically he'd lower the rest of the return somewhat. Kesler Booth Dubinsky Umberger Jenner Erixon Unless they wouldn't mind getting out from underneath RJ's contract after all. A year of Booth, considering they are adding Kesler's money, might be a bit of a salve for their ownership. The real dollars actually kind of balance out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerines Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Umberger is a great piece. He isn't just a throw in. We would have to add Hansen, I suspect. This is a fantastic deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I've been trying to get people to understand that too about Sutter. He isn't the centrepiece, no, but he is a good asset. I think we could get him signed for around $3.25 for 4 years. If sometime into that deal, because Horvat and the boys are ready to make him redundant, then we could use him as a chip to get something else. Also, we could let him sit out there in RFA status after qualifying him and see what offers come in. If he gets offered Gagner money then we take the compensation. With the cap going up I see no downside to having Sutter be part of the deal. The CBA does allow for salary cap to be retained, as a function of salary. We can't 'trade cap' per se but we can retain 50% of Booth's salary and cap hit for this year and next. At least, that's my understanding. This makes no sense for us though, we have no use for him. You don't have to make excuses for what they offer, we have all the bargaining power, so we dictate who comes and goes in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 How do you calculate that? Is that a function of capgeek? What have they been using their LTIR for Dupuis and Vokoun on? They haven't added anyone this year aside from call-ups. If they send those guys down and ship Sutter and Bennett out then I'm not sure where that has been spent? Pyatt is the only add at 0.811 remaining. Also, if Letang is shelved until the postseason, and they use his LTIR space, couldn't his space be used on Booth? The current numbers at Capgeek take into account ask the proration already and you can see they're at $68+M with $1+M in available cap. Dupuis and Vokoun are the only two players with LTI designation so we know they haven't put Letang and Martin on anything other than IR yet. If you account for Vokoun coming off LTI soon that'd put them ~$1M over the cap. Even with a combined LTI of $8.5M for Letang and Martin that's still only leave ~$7.5M in space after covering Vokoun's cap hit. It's actually closer than I thought if we're taking back Sutter but I still think they're too close to the salary cap for it to fit and still allow for minor call ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Umberger is a great piece. He isn't just a throw in. We would have to add Hansen, I suspect. Umberger won't play for vancouver remember? We are the ones who drafted him and he refused to play for us, we had to trade him away. No way in hell we go after him, not with his bad attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Has BMac had any tweets about Kesler lately? I trust him over any of these other clowns. That Rossi guy from Pitts is a joke. Sheros puppet. If he was Shero's puppet I doubt he would be saying that Shero will top any offer. He's making him sound like he'll do anything to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And why are people still talking Columbus? It ain't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And why are people still talking Columbus? It ain't happening. You're welcome to consider the Province a reliable source - some of us can't take that leap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I've been trying to get people to understand that too about Sutter. He isn't the centrepiece, no, but he is a good asset. I think we could get him signed for around $3.25 for 4 years. If sometime into that deal, because Horvat and the boys are ready to make him redundant, then we could use him as a chip to get something else. Also, we could let him sit out there in RFA status after qualifying him and see what offers come in. If he gets offered Gagner money then we take the compensation. With the cap going up I see no downside to having Sutter be part of the deal. The CBA does allow for salary cap to be retained, as a function of salary. We can't 'trade cap' per se but we can retain 50% of Booth's salary and cap hit for this year and next. At least, that's my understanding. Riiight, but we can't do it for this year only is my understanding. Retain salary until playoffs, then next year full salary and cap to the Pens. Maybe I'm wrong. This makes no sense for us though, we have no use for him. You don't have to make excuses for what they offer, we have all the bargaining power, so we dictate who comes and goes in this scenario. You're right, but also wrong. Even though we are dealing from a position of strength, if Pitts adds the picks and prospects we really covet but can't fit a player or 2 under the cap, then we don't acquire anything, better to take Sutter back and force some competition at next years training camp. Christ it isn't as if the guy is a plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 This makes no sense for us though, we have no use for him. You don't have to make excuses for what they offer, we have all the bargaining power, so we dictate who comes and goes in this scenario. Well we have some use for him. He's certainly more ready than Horvat or Gaunce to play now and the alternative is Schroeder in our top 6 full time. While I understand he won't turn into much more than he already is, laughing at the idea of taking Sutter in return reminds me how quickly posters will change their tune if a deal can't be done because we wouldn't take him in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerines Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And why are people still talking Columbus? It ain't happening. Too bad. Seemed like a nice fit for us to trade with them. They got some nice chips I'd like to push into our pile. But who knows they might still be involved. Only heard it from once source so far, and is the province that reliable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 If he was Shero's puppet I doubt he would be saying that Shero will top any offer. He's making him sound like he'll do anything to get him. Or Rossi is covering Shero's rep if Gillis rejects his lowball offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 If he was Shero's puppet I doubt he would be saying that Shero will top any offer. He's making him sound like he'll do anything to get him. So saying they "might" throw in Pouliot and talking up Sutter like hes a second line center wasnt being Sheros puppet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Umberger won't play for vancouver remember? We are the ones who drafted him and he refused to play for us, we had to trade him away. No way in hell we go after him, not with his bad attitude. That's not quite what happened - and it was over a decade ago. Umberger refused to sign - thought Kesler accepted a lowball offer which ran his value down (among other issues) but he does have a full NTC to season's end, so if he truly didn't want to play here, he won't be. Also, it's not like we're overvaluing him - we're talking about swapping Booth for him to get him out of Kesler's way. You also have to wonder if any of these issues would be live this many years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck or Die Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 If people want Kesler, they have to pay. Amazing how there are people who still don't f*cking get that. They honestly expect us to take crap in a trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerines Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 If people want Kesler, they have to pay. Amazing how there are people who still don't f*cking get that. They honestly expect us to take crap in a trade? Easy there partner we know that. Gillis can't possibly F' this up could he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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