The "I would like to see Torts stay for at least one more year" thread.

[Light Bearer]

For me it depends on what other coach options are out there. I would keep Torts unless a clearly better option was available, ie Babcock or Queneville. I wouldn't change just for the sake of change

[Tangelos]

So trade the core and keep the coach..?

Umm yea that's what we should do. The core has been given a free pass for too long now. It's time for some damn accountability

[VanNuck]

Yeah, I'd keep Torts, mainly if they keep the Sedins, and most of the core.

Personally, I actually want to see a full-scale rebuild, trading away the entire core, rebuild through the draft, and I don't know if Torts will want to coach a team that projects to lose next year.

[Tearloch7]

** I think Torts has until Xmas .. he is a convenient scapegoat if need be .. worse case scenario, they bring an interim Head Coach in during the year, and use that to distract the masses until they hire a brand spanking new Head Coach in 2015, right before we win the lottery and draft McDavid .. optimism runs amok **

I fell out of my hammock at this point so I have no idea how the dream ended ..

[Jack Fig]

The core of this team is not going anywhere anytime soon, there is no point in keeping a coach that is not suited to the existing core.

That's the bottom line. If the Canucks had plenty of payroll flexibility, then the idea of keeping Torts could yield a discussion. But another year of Torts with largely this group of players is a waste of time. Move on.

[Peaches]

You don't fire a guy after 1 year. That's the type of decision an impatient 5 year old on ADD makes. What is the common denominator the last 4 years of the decline? It's the players! It's so blatantly obvious that we need new personnel, whether that be through a rebuild or via trade is another question entirely

This x100. Do we really wanna take the Edmonton route with the different coach every year strategy.

[Peaches]

Another thing, if we are going to re-build, why not keep Torts?

Michael Del Zotto

Dan Girardi

Ryan McDonagh

Derek Stepan

Chris Kreider

Marc Staal

all players that Torts helped develop in NY.

[higgyfan]

Sather is one guy I just don't listen to I find he just riding the coat tails of that amazing edmonton team from the 80s that he won cups with personally I think he is one of the most overrated coaches / gms out there.

Tortorellas system does work if its not an aging core of veterans or players not willing to play his way.

I agree to an extent that he has to be more flexible in regards to is how he plays his top players, but I think that falls on the GM to get competent players to fill out the rest of the roster. If we had the currently 3rd line all season long but had 2 legit top scoring lines I think you would see a more balanced ice time spread but when you have some of the players vancouver had you can understand why they only saw x amount of minutes a night

Sather is one guy I just don't listen to I find he just riding the coat tails of that amazing edmonton team from the 80s that he won cups with personally I think he is one of the most overrated coaches / gms out there.

Tortorellas system does work if its not an aging core of veterans or players not willing to play his way.

I agree to an extent that he has to be more flexible in regards to is how he plays his top players, but I think that falls on the GM to get competent players to fill out the rest of the roster. If we had the currently 3rd line all season long but had 2 legit top scoring lines I think you would see a more balanced ice time spread but when you have some of the players vancouver had you can understand why they only saw x amount of minutes a night

K, so you don't have respect for Sather...what about Quinn and Linden? They're saying the same things about Torts.

[VanIsleNuckFan]

** I think Torts has until Xmas .. he is a convenient scapegoat if need be .. worse case scenario, they bring an interim Head Coach in during the year, and use that to distract the masses until they hire a brand spanking new Head Coach in 2015, right before we win the lottery and draft McDavid .. optimism runs amok **

I fell out of my hammock at this point so I have no idea how the dream ended ..

...at this point, it's possible...

[Blue & Green]

You seem to forget this team has NOT played well since the 2011 Stanley Cup run. Cost AV his job at the end of last season. This so called core didn't play for, or respond to AV after loosing game 7. Was that Torts fault? I think not. They did however respond to Torts for the first half of this season and I for one was quite impressed. Injuries played a HUGE part in this teams demise this year. The core was exposed for what it was and the whole organization was exposed for having ZERO depth at key positions. Actually if the truth be known, we barely have key players in key positions right now. Change needs to come, because as long as we base our team around the current core WE ARE SCREWED. Torts is a great, Stanley Cup winning coach that has a history of excelling with any given team in the 3rd and 4th year of his tenure. If there is to be change this summer then Torts should be allowed to work with that change for at least one more year. If we fire Torts and bring in a new coach, what are we going to be saying at the end of next season if the same non performance happens. Coaches fault again? That would make 3 different coaches that didn't work out for the existing core. Time to think about changing the core I think instead of hiring and firing coaches every one or two years.

If you are right then we are screwed.

Most of the core has NTC for the next couple of years, so like it or not, this is the core we have to work with presently.

However, I still believe in this core group and with a couple of key additions this summer I think the Canucks will be very competitive next season, providing they have a coaching staff that uses a system that utilizes the strengths of the existing players, not forcing them into a system that doesn't.

[SuperReverb2]

If you are right then we are screwed.

Most of the core has NTC for the next couple of years, so like it or not, this is the core we have to work with presently.

However, I still believe in this core group and with a couple of key additions this summer I think the Canucks will be very competitive next season, providing they have a coaching staff that uses a system that utilizes the strengths of the existing players, not forcing them into a system that doesn't.

"IF" we do add a couple of key pieces and in the process get rid of some of the 3rd and 4th line dead weight we've been carrying all year (and for a bit before as well) then Torts just might be the person to see them through next year, considering he has been saying all along that the reason the top guys get so many minutes is that there are no bottom guys worth playing much. Feel he could REALLY do something with 4 balanced lines and some youth.

Changing coaches every year is like changing the government every election. Gives them an excuse to blame their predecessor for all that is wrong, once the season goes south on them. Torts deserves another year.

[higgyfan]

"IF" we do add a couple of key pieces and in the process get rid of some of the 3rd and 4th line dead weight we've been carrying all year (and for a bit before as well) then Torts just might be the person to see them through next year, considering he has been saying all along that the reason the top guys get so many minutes is that there are no bottom guys worth playing much. Feel he could REALLY do something with 4 balanced lines and some youth.

Changing coaches every year is like changing the government every election. Gives them an excuse to blame their predecessor for all that is wrong, once the season goes south on them. Torts deserves another year.

Kind of funny that. Torts was saying the same thing about NY last year (complaining to GM about lack of depth). Guess it's not such a problem for AV now.

Did he really state that the bottom guys weren't worth playing? Would that include our most excellent 3rd line?

[R3aL]

[DarthNinja]

not an nhl caliber coach in 2014.

But he was just two years ago in 2012 when the NYR went to the Conference Finals?

[Honky Cat]

"IF" we do add a couple of key pieces and in the process get rid of some of the 3rd and 4th line dead weight we've been carrying all year (and for a bit before as well) then Torts just might be the person to see them through next year, considering he has been saying all along that the reason the top guys get so many minutes is that there are no bottom guys worth playing much. Feel he could REALLY do something with 4 balanced lines and some youth.

Changing coaches every year is like changing the government every election. Gives them an excuse to blame their predecessor for all that is wrong, once the season goes south on them. Torts deserves another year.

Canucks got 111 points in the 2011-12 season..with basically the same core..They also had a winning record against the Pacific division

If the team was enthusiastic about playing for Torts,..maybe he would stick around..Unfortunately,there's no positives to hang your hat on..more destructive than anything else.

[van_ws]

Calling it now... Torts fired in the off-season. It didn't work out, time to start with a clean slate.

I think he should be given another year, although I do not see it happening.

[SuperReverb2]

Kind of funny that. Torts was saying the same thing about NY last year (complaining to GM about lack of depth). Guess it's not such a problem for AV now.

Did he really state that the bottom guys weren't worth playing? Would that include our most excellent 3rd line?

Our excellent third line (depending on how they're used) now includes the likes of Jensen, and Matthias, as well as a few others that have filtered down from duty on the first and second line now that the team is healthy. Didn't have Jensen and Matthias all year, and we had an excellent third line before Santorelli got hurt. Other than Richardson as a fourth line center, (sometimes third) the like of Sestito don't really garner much ice time. Only healthy recently and only then have you seen the lines being more balanced and the ice times reflecting that. My point being is that we are a "relatively" balanced team when healthy as our December - January win stats prove, but we severely lack depth when a few keys assets get injured as they did this year.

Chicago on the other hand pretty much hasn't missed a beat with Toews and Kane out of the line up. Certainly wouldn't be able to say that about the Canucks.

[oldnews]

Don't know why everybody thinks Torts is so done already. Linden has always stated that he would base his decision on interviews with players AND COACHES after the season is over. Obviously this process will start on Monday. Personally I think it would be a major disservice to Torts to simply dismiss him out of hand, and rather stupid on Linden's part NOT to garner as much info as possible from a person I consider to be VERY knowledgeable about the game. (Torts)

Really can't see how Torts can be blamed for inheriting a team that was already on a downward slide (1 win in their last 11 playoff games) and exposing them for what they really are. A team of aging veterans that were babied and coddled for AV for 7 years, and now can't play the game the way the "new" NHL wants it to be played. We all seem to forget how well they played in December and early January (before the injuries hit) when they finally bought into Torts "system". To me that was VERY exciting "up tempo" hockey with great transition and pace. Torts only went to the defensive style when injuries dictated he do so. Besides he has already admitted his fault in not returning to the more up tempo style (more quickly) after the injuries returned.

Lastly. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of Mike Gillis for hiring a coach that was not suited to our current team and for failing to supply Torts with the proper players for his so called style. Obviously Gillis has already paid the ultimate price for that mistake. Don't think Torts should pay the same price for simply doing what he was hired to do. Besides, if the team is going to change (younger, bigger, faster, stronger) over the summer, who better than to coach that team at least for one more year? I say Torts is the man.

I'm sorry but this is sheer nonsense. I've stated at length in other threads why I think the experiment needs to end and am not going to repeat all that here - but the idea that a coach exposes his players by failing is about as poor a concept of coaching as I've ever heard expressed. A good coach not only adapts to his personnel, but puts them in positions to succeed as much as possible, and gets the best out of his/her players.

The idea that Gillis had to remake the roster for Tortorella is nonsense, and it's not realistic. In an NHL where deals were exceptionally difficult, teams were cap strapped, and very few deals in fact done, the idea that the GM should make haste in order to speed Keenanize a roster is a recipe for disaster - disaster worse than simply missing the playoffs.

the knee jerk reactions are ridiculous.

What greater knee jerk reaction was there this season than attempt to bust into the opponent's locker room. Tortorella was fortunate that McGratton stood in front of him and remained entirely cool and level-headed through that episode. It could have been a hell of a lot worse were it not for the composure of the enforcer.

Disagree.

Torts style can be summed up in one word.

Aggression.

He admitted they lost that, gave reasons why, blamed himself, and the team responded down the stretch with .500 hockey despite injuries still.

Players like Burrows were coached into their excellence, obviously it's going to be hard to have the same kind of year with a new coach. Same with Edler and probably the Sedins to less a degree than people think.

All these things mean Torts should stay,

That's part of the problem. The utter simplicity with which people see the problems.

Tortorella himself distilled his own conception of what went wrong to simply his failing to "keep his foot on the pedal."

His "foot on the pedal" however was a huge part of the problem. He bust out of the gates in October with a three line approach that was destined to exhaust his core. He ignored advice, the gruelling Olympic compacted schedule, and did what he does.

He overutilized and mis-utilized players.

He publicly berated players.

He lost control of himself and arguably his bench.

He lost the effective ability to strategically adjust in-game.

He also, imo, fired the first shots in the conflict with his GM, citing a lack of depth as having forced his three line approach, well before MG noted the departure from and up tempo, puck possession style of hockey.

His systems imo are also question mark. He can maintain that no one understands them - but it would appear the opposition grasps them quite clearly - as they appeared to later in his tenure in NY as well. There may be a disconnect between his aggressive 2-1-2 forecheck (the team imo did not backcheck as effectively this season as under AV, perhaps in part due to having two men deep and activating the blueline to pinch and supplement the forecheck. Aggressive yes. But then how effective are his systems if the forecheck is in fact broken? The relatively less effective dzone puck pressure (relative to AV's greater emphasis on skating, man to man and situational overloads as opposed to collapsing and shot blocking) was also characterized by a great deal of blown coverages and literal (particularly third period) collapses in the second half of the season. The team really depended heavily upon the forecheck to generate scoring chances, and managed a lack of transition out of his defensive zone systems (looked quite stagnant relative to AV's systems), depending too heavily on stretch passes (as opposed to puck possession) and then the excessive amount of dump and chase that we saw (and/or dump and change). I may not grasp Tortorella's systems very well, but ironically imo, that is one of the claims made in his defense - that his players didn't grasp his system. I don't necessarily buy that - I'm not convinced that great coaching is characterized by players failing to grasp systems (or essentially blaming players for being unable to make systems work). Imo that is on the coaching, and I'm also not convinced that these systems are composed of genius outside/above people's ability to grasp them.

It'll be interesting to hear him elaborate upon and explain why these are superior systems approaches that his players apparently couldn't quite 'get.' I think that "aggressiveness" may sound like a convincing sales key word, but how effective overall are these systems? Are they suited to personnel or are the systems the bottom line regardless of the personnel? How effective were they in NY? How much does Tortorella's systems approach depend on a Henrik Lundqvist to prop them up?

Honestly, I've lost a whole lot of interest in digging that much deeper into the riddles of Tortorella's systems. I'm not that convinced in them, are regardless, there are also all kinds of other problems that were highly evident and visible.

The coaching performance this season imo did not earn itself another season.

[coyotecanuck]

Blocked shots = fluke goals.

If you trust your goalie, let him see the puck.

We need d men that can box out the front of the net, not clog it up.

I think Torts is a good guy, I don't agree with his system. Bye bye.

[Jack Fig]

The coaching performance this season imo did not earn itself another season.

Exactly...and when Trevor does he evaluations next week, that's going to be precisely what he'll find.