Elliot Friedman 30 Thoughts: Canucks ha have made offer for 1st overall pick

[Me_]

Keep the 6th.

Seriously?

FLA

Shinkaruk

6th

VAN

Ekblad

[Smashian Kassian]

I'll take]

That is the poorest comeback I've read in a while. Not as close as Reinhart? What does it matter? Are you going to say February-born prospects deserve a break when being compared to January-born prospects this year because they were born a month later? It makes sense to take into consideration the difference, for example, between a June-August 1996-born prospect and a late 1995-born prospect, but to say that Lindholm's birthday isn't "as close" as Reinhart is ludicrous.

I did answer your question: Reinhart is a class above Monahan.

Monohan & Reinhart are both about a month off, that's considerable, I think someone like Lindholm who has a mid december birthday is far enough away from qualifying for the previous draft class thats its not as big a deal.

Ok so last year, Reinhart would be a #5 or 6 pick, Lindholm class lets say because they have similar upside. (Cause I don't think he's in the class of the top 4)

So would you trade Shinkaruk, Tanev & Ehlers/Dal Colle (or whoever your favorite prospect at our pick is) for Elias Lindholm?

[DeNiro]

Also if you get the number 1 you can trade it to Edmonton for the # 3 + more and still likeley get Reinhart

I can't believe people don't see the value in that.

If Buffalo wants Ekblad, we can trade down to 2nd, get more assets, and still draft Reinart.

[jejejester]

I can't believe people don't see the value in that.

If Buffalo wants Ekblad, we can trade down to 2nd, get more assets, and still draft Reinart.

That's actually a very good way too look at it. Get #3 pick and a prospect. Your guaranteed one of Reinhart, Bennet, Draisaltl, Ekblad

[He-Lord]

I can't believe people don't see the value in that.

If Buffalo wants Ekblad, we can trade down to 2nd, get more assets, and still draft Reinart.

What assets? Moving to first from second won't cost nearly as much.

[FlyLow_]

I can't believe people don't see the value in that.

If Buffalo wants Ekblad, we can trade down to 2nd, get more assets, and still draft Reinart.

Buffalo wants Reinhart

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I can't believe people don't see the value in that.

If Buffalo wants Ekblad, we can trade down to 2nd, get more assets, and still draft Reinart.

Teams already know we don't want ekblad and want Reinhart, Edmonton wouldn't trade that much in return knowing that they'd have a 50/50 chance that Ekblad would fall to them and have to give up zero. Those "more assets" wouldn't be much more than a 3rd or 4th round pick

And if what we do trade to edmonton and then BUF takes Reinhart. Now that whole reason we traded up and paid a huge price is gone.

[DeNiro]

What assets? Moving to first from second won't cost nearly as much.

Look at the history of teams trading down 1 or two picks. You get more than you think.

All Vancouver has to do is say they're taking Eklbad, and Buffalo will want to trade up.

[peaches5]

Buffalo wants Reinhart

Buffalo wants Ekblad they just believe that Ekblad is the obvious first overall selection and are prepared to take what's left.

[DeNiro]

Teams already know we don't want ekblad and want Reinhart

Buffalo wants Reinhart

Teams say alot of things. It's part of strategy.

Do you really think they would announce exactly who they're going to take?

Never show your opponent your hand. First rule of GMing.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Teams say alot of things. It's part of strategy.

Do you really think they would announce exactly who they're going to take?

Never show your opponent your hand. First rule of GMing.

So whats stopping BUF from taking reinhart at two?

Them telling us.

Heres the thing, and even burke mentioned this. In this draft there are 4 players that are all on about the same level. There is no consences 1st overall. That means there is very little any team will give up because no matter what, they are getting a solid player. EDM need Draisaitl (big center) just as bad as they need Ekblad. Honestly the most Buf would give up is maybe a 4th and the most EDM would give up would be maybe a 3rd.

[Guest Dasein]

I'll take]

Monohan & Reinhart are both about a month off, that's considerable, I think someone like Lindholm who has a mid december birthday is far enough away from qualifying for the previous draft class thats its not as big a deal.

Ok so last year, Reinhart would be a #5 or 6 pick, Lindholm class lets say because they have similar upside. (Cause I don't think he's in the class of the top 4)

So would you trade Shinkaruk, Tanev & Ehlers/Dal Colle (or whoever your favorite prospect at our pick is) for Elias Lindholm?

I am still not getting why Monahan and Reinhart are considerably different from Lindholm... It makes zero sense. Let's take RNH and Huberdeau - RNH is April and Huberdeau is June. So teams should have taken that into consideration when they drafted back in 2012?

Again, Lindholm and Reinhart are not easy to compare because he played in the SEL. However, I am not sure if Lindholm rivals Reinhart because based on NHL productions, Monahan fares better than Lindholm, and WHL productions imply Reinhart is better than Monahan, which you didn't dispute.

So Reinhart would be #5 in last year's draft at the least - but I'd argue he could have been #2. Florida picked Barkov based on organizational need for a center, and again, I am not sure if Barkov is better than Reinhart due to him being from Europe. Barkov is a September-born player though, so almost a full year behind the late-birthdays, so it would definitely be considered towards Barkov's favour. Since they're only a month apart, what Barkov produces in the upcoming season and what Reinhart (if he makes it) does should give us an idea of who really is better.

At any rate, let's just say Reinhart is #5.

I would still make the trade, yes. I mean, we're talking about a chance to set up a 1-2-3 of Reinhart-Horvat-Gaunce/Cassels down the middle for a decade+. If it costs Tanev, Shinkaruk and Ehlers/MDC, it's still very worth it.

Does it deplete our depth? Yes. Is it temporary or permanent? Temporary.

Keep in mind we are trading Ryan Kesler for prospects and picks. The pick constantly mentioned is Anaheim's #10 this year. The prospect constantly mentioned is Emerson Etem - a top 6 winger (who is above PPG in the AHL, by the way - he is ready to go NOW). We can absorb some of the damage left by trying to get a high-quality prospect by giving up quantity because we're trying Kesler (Even if it isn't the Anaheim package, you get the idea - we can ask for what we need to fill the void).

And we can continue to build through the upcoming drafts to support Reinhart, Horvat and company. Remember the way the 2011 team was built - Henrik and Kesler down the middle + one elite winger in Daniel - surrounded by wingers via drafts following theirs, UFA signings or trades. Except this time around, we would have Reinhart, Horvat and Gaunce/Cassels, and Jensen and Kassian on wing. That's a better start already than what we had when we were building up to the team that came so close in 2011.

That's why I feel perfectly fine with giving up that proposed package for Reinhart - because Reinhart really sets us up for the future in a way that none of the players in the package nor in our remaining current system can.

[DeNiro]

So whats stopping BUF from taking reinhart at two?

Nothing. But they probably want Ekblad.

Just like how the Canucks are "fine" with the 6th pick, but behind closed doors they're desperately trying to get something done for the 1st overall.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Nothing. But they probably want Ekblad.

Just like how the Canucks are "fine" with the 6th pick, but behind closed doors they're desperately trying to get something done for the 1st overall.

Your not using your head. There is no clear 1st overall. No Tavares, No Stamkos, No Crosby. All players in the top 3 are all at the same level. There for they don't need to trade up as they are going to get solid player no matter what.

[brian42]

That's why I feel perfectly fine with giving up that proposed package for Reinhart - because Reinhart really sets us up for the future in a way that none of the players in the package nor in our remaining current system can.

yes

[Light Bearer]

If Reinhart are such great prospects, why is Tallon looking to move back as far as pick #8??

probably because he knows there is more value if you don't have the first pick this. Tallon knows how to evaluate talent. He drafted Kane and Toews and many other current Blackhawks.

[KFBR392]

I don't like the idea of trading Hunter and the 6th for 1st..

If we make that trade and one of the top 5 slips, I'd say it isn't worth it.

Obviously we won't know which choice was better sure, either way, for a number of years... But in our situation I'd much rather have multiple prospects with high ceilings compared to one that might be considered more of a "sure thing". We just don't have any sort of depth with prospects. We need more, not less.

If this was the only move we made, and there wasn't a grander scheme to acquire more good prospects, I'd rather play it safe and go with quantity over projected quality.

[DeNiro]

If Reinhart are such great prospects, why is Tallon looking to move back as far as pick #8??

probably because he knows there is more value if you don't have the first pick this. Tallon knows how to evaluate talent. He drafted Kane and Toews and many other current Blackhawks.

Because Florida doesn't need centers.

Tallon obviously sees more value in getting a winger at number 4-8. Because that's what his team needs.

If he's willing to trade it, he also doesn't believe Ekblad is a slam dunk. Which, if people think he's such a great evaluator of talent, would mean the Canucks shouldn't take Ekblad if they get the pick.

[DeNiro]

Your not using your head. There is no clear 1st overall. No Tavares, No Stamkos, No Crosby. All players in the top 3 are all at the same level. There for they don't need to trade up as they are going to get solid player no matter what.

There was no clear 1st overall when Mackinnon was drafted either. It was up in the air between him, Jones, and Drouin.

Taylor vs Tyler? Same thing.

Being in the top 3 is way different than having the 6th. Please look back at drafts, then maybe you'll realize this.

[Noseforthenet]

As I said way earlier in the Tallon thread, if we can't get #1, trading for #3 with Edmonton has alot of merit. Especially if we land the #10 in a Kesler trade. They need a defenseman. If they come knocking, they can get one of ours and our pick, then draft Haydn Fleury. The fact is they need defense now!! Could they use a center, sure. Unless they pick Draisaitl, he will be a year away. Bennett and Reinhart could grow a bit.