Elliot Friedman 30 Thoughts: Canucks ha have made offer for 1st overall pick

[peaches5]

Yeah but the odds are pretty darn good in your favor. There are no guarantees in trades or picks but this team is in dire straits for a surefire elite player. It seems obvious that most scouts have Reinhart, and Ekblad as these players. Unless you've watched them each play 40-50 games it's kind of hard to comment on how good or how bad Reinhart will be but the numbers support him (well the top pick anyway).

I get your point though we definitely overpay by a degree but that's how you get the top pick and the best player, and this is especially true at 6 where there a lot of options to be had. Some of them will probably bust since this is such a weak draft. That's also a reason to get the best pick possible. I guess it really comes down to how high they have their projected number one over what they might get at 6.

It's a litte early to to judge Murray yet as he lost a year due to injury and Yakapov certainly has the talent but is not in the best situation.

The draft is not weak because of its depth but because of there being no front end talent at the top of the draft. Deniro keeps saying the exact opposite but if you actually read the reports from GM's and scouts the draft is not weak but there are just no solid picks at the top and that's why its been labelled as weak.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I'll quote this guy as well because his blatant lack of understanding is the most annoying

1st two forwards in draft

Ovechkin Malkin Crosby Ryan Stall Toews Kane Riemsdyk Stamkos Filitov Tavares Duchene Hall Seguin Nugest-Hopkins Landeskog Yakapov Galchenyuk McKinnon Barkov

19/20 Quality NHLer's all of which most sane people would trade for Shinkaruk.

Toews was 3rd overall

One thing you need to think of is, none of those picks were traded at the draft. Why? Because they were all sure things. We don't have that this year and most rankings have Reinhart falling to 4 if FLA keeps the pick.

Shinkaruk is also a special case, the 2013 draft was said to be the deepest draft since 2003. In 2003 at 23 Ryan Kesler was drafted at 24 mike Richards was picked. Hmm now that trade isn't looking as good. Lets take it even further

If Shinkaruk last year, was put into this years draft he's likely find himself in the top 10, possible top 5. For arguments sake like say he be at 7th, Now you'd be trading this years 6th and 7th for a player that may find himself at 4th. It sure doesn't make a lot of sense trading both those picks to move up only 2 spots.

Now lets also think about the drafting rating process

At the start of the year. Nylander was ranked 2nd behind Reinhart. http://futureconsiderations.ca/fc-releases-preliminary-ranking-for-2014-nhl-draft/%C2'> got off to a slow first half of the season but finished with a solid end and ended up falling to the 6-10th. Were going to judge a players next 15 years based on a bad 10-15 games he played at the start of one year. If he could have got off to a good pace at the start of the season he'd likely be in the top 3 still.

Ehlers on the other hand played his first season in NA, prior to this season he was on no scouts radar. After a solid season he's now ranked in the same area 6-10. If Ehlers came to NA when he was 15 and not just in his draft year, he'd also be in the talk of the top 5. So now were not just trading the 6th were also trading players that could very well be in the conversation for best players in the draft. Along with another player that would fit in the conversation of top 10 this year,

Now lets talk about Reinhart and the company you put him in:

Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos, Ovi, Malkin and even Kane out up league dominating numbers. Most were putting up a pace of 2+ ppg in the year prior to their draft. For these players yes I would trade two top 10 picks, but sorry but Reinhart doesn't fall into that category. He may very well turn out to be a great player but there is still a lot of risk in that. Too much risk to take in trading two other prospects with high end potential.

[peaches5]

Sam reinhart has out pointed all of them while being a two way center. He is big enough to not get pushed around. He is seen as one of the smartest players coming up letting him control games. He is projected to be a number 1 center. The others are just flashy (shinkaruk and ehlers) they lack fullness in their game and even though they are seen as pure offensive talents they have not reached the numbers that true number one players who playike them have reached. Their numbers indicate they wil be second line wingers.

Sam Reinhart is 2 months younger than Mackinnon he was almost in last years draft class. He is 8 months older than Bennett 10 months older than Virtanen and so on. I've said this before look at his stats from 2012-13 when he is playing with people in his birth year.and you can see much more down to earth stats

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

Sam Reinhart is 2 months younger than Mackinnon he was almost in last years draft class. He is 8 months older than Bennett 10 months older than Virtanen and so on. I've said this before look at his stats from 2012-13 when he is playing with people in his birth year.and you can see much more down to earth stats

Its his draft year so you compare him with his draft year peers. Plus shinkaruk was pretty much a year older then people in his eh? And he didn't even do close to what reinhart did. I'm just saying that those two players are not putting up numbers to be 1st line players. Even when shinkaruk had a bigger age diff then reinhart.

[Warhippy]

Sam reinhart has out pointed all of them while being a two way center. He is big enough to not get pushed around. He is seen as one of the smartest players coming up letting him control games. He is projected to be a number 1 center. The others are just flashy (shinkaruk and ehlers) they lack fullness in their game and even though they are seen as pure offensive talents they have not reached the numbers that true first line players who play like them have reached. Their numbers indicate they wil be second line wingers.

Reinharts 252 points are comparable to Shinkaruks 219 points over roughly the same amount of games played at the same age. He also plays center which arguably should always garner more points.

ehlers is not very far behind him as a proverbial rookie.

What makes Reinhart So much better than, when in all honesty more than one analyst and scout are on stating he is NOT the consensus #1 pick and projects as a good two way 2nd line center with "potential" 1st line center possibilities?

What in your opinion then makes him so much better and worth tossing Shinkaruk away when next year has potential franchise centers a plenty in the top 10 as per some analysts

[Gstank29]

Sam Reinhart is 2 months younger than Mackinnon he was almost in last years draft class. He is 8 months older than Bennett 10 months older than Virtanen and so on. I've said this before look at his stats from 2012-13 when he is playing with people in his birth year.and you can see much more down to earth stats

Look at where his team placed and beside the one guy with 78 points the rest of his team has like 40 points.

Reinhart would still have be a top 5 talent in last year draft and probably would have been drafted ahead of Lindholm.

Being older can be a advantage or a disadvantage, it depends on how you look at it. Mantha is a year older (94 in a 95 draft class) same as Shrinkruak and that didn't effect there development. Actually in Manthas case it probably helped him. Finally Eichel (is a late 95 birthday) so does that mean he has less potential than Mcdavid? You forget that these kids have been playing with kids a year younger for their whole hockey career and it really doesn't matter.

[King Heffy]

I'm coming around on this trade for one reason: I don't trust our scouts to make a good pick at #6. Living through the Messier years, I saw a lot of very high picks wasted during that span. There's a good player to be had at our spot, but I don't like our scouts' ability to find him based on past performance. Unfortunately, that lowers the value of our 6th to us significantly, as it's too late for Benning to fix this issue in time.

Take the 1st overall pick and the sure thing while you fix the issues with the scouting.

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

Reinharts 252 points are comparable to Shinkaruks 219 points over roughly the same amount of games played at the same age. He also plays center which arguably should always garner more points.

ehlers is not very far behind him as a proverbial rookie.

What makes Reinhart So much better than, when in all honesty more than one analyst and scout are on stating he is NOT the consensus #1 pick and projects as a good two way 2nd line center with "potential" 1st line center possibilities?

What in your opinion then makes him so much better and worth tossing Shinkaruk away when next year has potential franchise centers a plenty in the top 10 as per some analysts

Because we have no one to take over for henrik 1st line center wise in 2-3 years. We will not be bsd enough to get a top 10 pick next year and we already have two second line wingers in jensen and kassian so we can afford to trade another second line winger in order to get hanks replacement thus saving us from becoming a bottom of the barrel team.

[Ryan Strome]

Sam reinhart has out pointed all of them while being a two way center. He is big enough to not get pushed around. He is seen as one of the smartest players coming up letting him control games. He is projected to be a number 1 center. The others are just flashy (shinkaruk and ehlers) they lack fullness in their game and even though they are seen as pure offensive talents they have not reached the numbers that true first line players who play like them have reached. Their numbers indicate they wil be second line wingers.

Actually most scouts/analysis have him pegged as a #2 centre. Most certainly they could be wrong it's just you're indicating he is projected as a #1 centre which isn't really the case at the moment.

As far as you knocking Ehlers, in my opinion he may take a couple extra years of development but I think whatever teams gets him will realize it was worth the wait. Maybe you're right though and he is a 2nd line winger, is it really that bad?

Again I ask that considering the price and the position our team is in. I'm by no means knocking Reinhart, I would love to get him but thatprice is high. I've said, in this thread if he is a game changer lets consider it. Now I admit he is talented but is he a game changer?

Essentially imo we would give up 2 second line wingers(by your assessment) and imo our 2nd best dman for maybe a 1st line centre.

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

Actually most scouts/analysis have him pegged as a #2 centre. Most certainly they could be wrong it's just you're indicating he is projected as a #1 centre which isn't really the case at the moment.

As far as you knocking Ehlers, in my opinion he may take a couple extra years of development but I think whatever teams gets him will realize it was worth the wait. Maybe you're right though and he is a 2nd line winger, is it really that bad?

Again I ask that considering the price and the position our team is in. I'm by no means knocking Reinhart, I would love to get him but thatprice is high. I've said, in this thread if he is a game changer lets consider it. Now I admit he is talented but is he a game changer?

Essentially imo we would give up 2 second line wingers(by your assessment) and imo our 2nd best dman for maybe a 1st line centre.

Shinkaruk is a potential second line center with a fairly big potential to bust. Realistically with the 6th we draft virtanen who is a 3rd liner and tanev is a top 4 d and we need to get rid of a d man for corrado to come in. The rest of the d have ntc so he is the odd man out. We really are not losing much.

[Warhippy]

Its his draft year so you compare him with his draft year peers. Plus shinkaruk was pretty much a year older then people in his eh? And he didn't even do close to what reinhart did. I'm just saying that those two players are not putting up numbers to be 1st line players. Even when shinkaruk had a bigger age diff then reinhart.

Sam Reinhart

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=132239

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=8556

http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/7840

Hunter Shinkaruak

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130701

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=9888

http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/7450

Nikolaj Ehlers

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=164346

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/nikolaj-ehlers/

Now again, I ask. What exactly IS the difference in potential? Both Hunter AND Ehlers project to be incredible top line wingers by those numbers and are as point comparable playing a non center position as Reinhart is playing a C position.

So I again ask you...what IS the difference and what makes Reinhart SO much more worth it than these two guys with comparable point totals?

[shinkaruk98]

Makes me so sad had a great opportunity here to start a great future.

You wouldn't be so eager to trade up if Jensen was involved

[Gstank29]

Now again, I ask. What exactly IS the difference in potential? Both Hunter AND Ehlers project to be incredible top line wingers by those numbers and are as point comparable playing a non center position as Reinhart is playing a C position.

So I again ask you...what IS the difference and what makes Reinhart SO much more worth it than these two guys with comparable point totals?

Reinhart can playa elite shutdown game as well has an offensive game while the other two can only play to an elite level offensive level.

[Ryan Strome]

Shinkaruk is a potential second line center with a fairly big potential to bust. Realistically with the 6th we draft virtanen who is a 3rd liner and tanev is a top 4 d and we need to get rid of a d man for corrado to come in. The rest of the d have ntc so he is the odd man out. We really are not losing much.

I suppose you could paint the picture however you like. In my opinion Tanev is not the odd guy out because FC needs in, that's ridiculous. Tanev is far better then Corrado as for Virtanen, I feel he would be a mistake at 6th overall however just cause you say "realistically we draft Virtanen" doesn't make it true.

That's just an attempt to sell your argument. Again I'm not against SR but that price is steep. Hell I think Tanev could be our best dman in 2 years(just my opinion)

[Ryan Strome]

Reinhart can playa elite shutdown game as well has an offensive game while the other two can only play to an elite level offensive level.

Tallon also wants Tanev.

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

Sam Reinhart

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=132239

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=8556

http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/7840

Hunter Shinkaruak

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130701

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=9888

http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/7450

Nikolaj Ehlers

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=164346

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/nikolaj-ehlers/

Now again, I ask. What exactly IS the difference in potential? Both Hunter AND Ehlers project to be incredible top line wingers by those numbers and are as point comparable playing a non center position as Reinhart is playing a C position.

So I again ask you...what IS the difference and what makes Reinhart SO much more worth it than these two guys with comparable point totals?

1) amazing hockey IQ.

2) size advantage.

3) hockey pedigree. Has a strong support system grew up living hockey.

4) captain material. The others are not.

5) plays a full 2 way game while putting up great numbers.

These are just my top 5 reasons why he has more potential.

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

You wouldn't be so eager to trade up if Jensen was involved

Yup for reinhart I would involve jensen in the deal in a heart beat.

[Ryan Strome]

Warhippy and I are not against a trade to get Reinhart but at some point you have to draw the line. Every year it's a insane price for the #1 pick hence why it's very rarely moved.

[MayRayDown]

Shinkaruk is a potential second line center with a fairly big potential to bust. Realistically with the 6th we draft virtanen who is a 3rd liner and tanev is a top 4 d and we need to get rid of a d man for corrado to come in. The rest of the d have ntc so he is the odd man out. We really are not losing much.

I like how you act like you know so much about prospects and laugh at people thinking shinkaruk is better than Jensen yet don't know he plays LW

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

Warhippy and I are not against a trade to get Reinhart but at some point you have to draw the line. Every year it's a insane price for the #1 pick hence why it's very rarely moved.

Shinkaruk, tanev, 6th is a reasonable price.