Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[richado]

2 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

this kid is not getting the message. He has the hodgson, kassian feel and and we should package him off with one of our young d men to get a legit top line winger.

 

Hansen+ Virtanen + Hutton for Duchenne and 2017 2nd

we need a top 6 counterman to take over from Hank, and to complement Bo

 

I am, however in favour of a larger deal:

 

To COL

 

Sbisa

Granlund

Sutter

Virtanen

subban

 

 

To VAN

 

Duchenne

Landescog

 

Landescog Duchenne Ericksson

Bartschi Horvat Hansen

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Megan Gaunce Skille

 

Edler stretcher

Hutton Tanev

Tryamkin Gudbranson

 

that team could make the playoffs for sure

 

 

 

Yea, especially with Megan rounding out our 4th. Watch out for Megan.

[Sedinyoureyesontheprize]

Wow. Virtanen has a ton of potential and its still more than likely that he will figure it out in 1-2 years. Why should we give him away , when with some patience and time to work at his craft he could become game breaking talent?

 

All you saying trade him are so narrow sighted. You are probably the same people that said keep him with the big club the first year. 

 

Anyway I  believe 100% that jake is going to turn it around and when he does WATCH OUT.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

4 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

this kid is not getting the message. He has the hodgson, kassian feel and and we should package him off with one of our young d men to get a legit top line winger.

 

Hansen+ Virtanen + Hutton for Duchenne and 2017 2nd

we need a top 6 counterman to take over from Hank, and to complement Bo

 

I am, however in favour of a larger deal:

 

To COL

 

Sbisa

Granlund

Sutter

Virtanen

subban

 

 

To VAN

 

Duchenne

Landescog

 

Landescog Duchenne Ericksson

Bartschi Horvat Hansen

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Megan Gaunce Skille

 

Edler stretcher

Hutton Tanev

Tryamkin Gudbranson

 

that team could make the playoffs for sure

 

 

 

Seriously?  Please break down that trade and try to explain how that makes the Av's better team either in the short term or long term?

 

You were closer with the hutton, hansen, virtanen deal for duchene deal.  but then you went and gave took away value on the canucks side and added another top end value on the av's side.  You just through a bunch of 3rd liners for 2, young, top line player and none of those you offered up are players that solve any of there needs.  

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by ForsbergTheGreat

[kenhodgejr]

7 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

this kid is not getting the message. He has the hodgson, kassian feel and and we should package him off with one of our young d men to get a legit top line winger.

 

Hansen+ Virtanen + Hutton for Duchenne and 2017 2nd

we need a top 6 counterman to take over from Hank, and to complement Bo

 

I am, however in favour of a larger deal:

 

To COL

 

Sbisa

Granlund

Sutter

Virtanen

subban

 

 

To VAN

 

Duchenne

Landescog

 

Landescog Duchenne Ericksson

Bartschi Horvat Hansen

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Megan Gaunce Skille

 

Edler stretcher

Hutton Tanev

Tryamkin Gudbranson

 

that team could make the playoffs for sure

 

 

 

How about Virtanen, Subban, Dorset 

 

for Tyson Jost, 3rd 

[Stormriders]

First let me say I have been a big Jake supporter, as I was Kassian, but I am seeing some alarming similarities.  I have followed Jake since his last two junior years, and there is clearly something missing.  I will admit I have not watched a single Comet game this year, and only the playoffs for Utica in 2015, so all that he has done/ or not done in the AHL apart from that is through posters, media etc.  Here are a few things I see and speculate about Jake.

1. When he was a junior he was a very large, powerful player with great speed and a good shot.  Because of his size he was able to dominate the smaller juniors, so it was relatively easy.  Because it was easy, he could get away with a lower work ethic and drive to improve.  He was already dominating.  A simple case of someone that found it easy and didn't have to try as hard.
2. Also, because the game came easy and he could get away with less effort than some less gifted players, Jake didn't need to develop some of the other hockey skills.  As an example a player like Stecher, who was undersized, had to learn to develop other skills to offset his lack of size, and obviously he was very successful at doing this.  Tanev is another example who credits his lack of size as a junior, for him developing his other skills to offset. [he later had a huge growth spurt, but by then had these added skills]
3. The criticism about how he was managed by the Hitman is probably founded on his lack of consistency and effort.  You have to ask why the coach wouldn't be giving this elite player prime time, but they didn't.  But Jake doesn't seem to care because by now he has been drafted #6 overall and his future is all but set.
4. Right after the draft he has shoulder surgery, which was know before and is out until October 2014 but he comes back strong, hitting hard, and it looks like his shoulder is fine.  He goes on to have a very 'average draft + 1' year, putting up a PPG, about the same as his draft year, so a little disappointing.
5. He plays in his first World Juniors 2014/15 and doesn't impress, but we forgive because he is very young and has so much potential.  But he can't seem to use all these 'tools' he has and plays a lesser role on the team,  a team of elite level players where he no longer can dominate on natural talent alone.  Are these coaches of the World Junior team wrong as well?
6. The following year he plays for the Canucks instead of playing junior and has an ok year, but some of his issues are starting to show.  Again, he is now playing with a much higher talent level, who are faster and bigger and he can no longer easily dominate.
7. He goes on to play his second WJ, 2015/16, and the results are worse than the previous year.  Again, you can see by his deployment that the coaches don't see him as a main player despite him being a returning player.  At this stage he should have really dominated being a year older, having NHL experience, and having the ability to dominate because of his physical size.  He ended up being the scapegoat for Team Canada, undeservingly, but responded well when he came back to the Canucks.  Nonetheless, a disappointing performance, but more importantly he was evaluated by Team Canada well down their depth chart, and flags were being raised.
8. He starts the 2016/17 as a Canuck, plays 10 games, has zero goals, one assist and 2 PIM.  Apparently by now everyone in the organization has talked to him from Burrows, Sedin's, Willy, JB, and Linden, but he isn't getting the message.  His hitting has started to slow down and there is speculation he may be injured or maybe it's his shoulder.  He is less aggressive, not hitting [after leading the team the previous year], not using his speed or shot, and playing on the outside vs. using his strength and speed to drive to the net.
9. Now after a year and a bit, I am seeing way too many similarities between Jake and Kassian [take away the substance abuse issues].  After supporting Kassian for a long time, I finally said on here he was not willing to 'engage', and played on the outside chasing the play vs. attacking it.  Jake is demonstrating this as well.  Instead of getting in on the forecheck and retrieving the puck, both of these players are seen too often waiting for someone else to get the puck to them for the scoring opportunity.  Or he delays forcing the play with speed and aggressiveness and chases it, avoiding engagement.
10. The few posters on here that have been watching the Comets talk about all of these things including not using his speed and size.  Apart from a short spurt of goals, his production in the AHL has been as disappointing as his effort.

I remember listening to Ray Ferraro speaking on TSN 1040 last year, and he was talking about why some players don't make it, and he gave several examples of how so many failed, as well as some nice success stories.  He said after all the players talent, all the coaching and mentoring etc., it is up to the player to put it all together and 'get it'.  At that point there is little you can do, they either get it or they don't, and a lot of very talented and high picks don't make it because they never get it.  Players like Bo and Linden get it very early.  I am starting to fear that Virtanen might never get it.  Some of you will think it is way too early to judge, BUT if he doesn't 'get it', time playing the same way he is now won't make any difference, it will only delay management and the fan base finally accepting the reality.  Look no farther than our friend Kassian, now recovered from the addiction, and finally understand he is on his last chance, and with all the tools he has been blessed with, he looks like he will now be a career 4th liner, on track for around 20 points at age 25.  

 

I think a lot has to do with effort and desire, two traits that he never had to fully develop as a junior because he was gifted, and could get by mostly on his natural talent.  Jake just does not seem to understand that he needs to significantly raise his effort and develop a higher level of NHL skills.  [if you don't agree with this look no further than Bo, at how he has improved his skating and is constantly developing his skills with and without the puck].   I hope I am wrong and that Jake does finally get it and turns into the player JB thought he could be when he drafted him.  Until he fully gets it and demonstrates it on a consistent basis, he should not play any further NHL games , regardless of injuries.  He needs to get the message he has a long way to becoming the NHL player he thought he was.

[JetJockey]

1 hour ago, Stormriders said:

First let me say I have been a big Jake supporter, as I was Kassian, but I am seeing some alarming similarities.  I have followed Jake since his last two junior years, and there is clearly something missing.  I will admit I have not watched a single Comet game this year, and only the playoffs for Utica in 2015, so all that he has done/ or not done in the AHL apart from that is through posters, media etc.  Here are a few things I see and speculate about Jake.

1. When he was a junior he was a very large, powerful player with great speed and a good shot.  Because of his size he was able to dominate the smaller juniors, so it was relatively easy.  Because it was easy, he could get away with a lower work ethic and drive to improve.  He was already dominating.  A simple case of someone that found it easy and didn't have to try as hard.
2. Also, because the game came easy and he could get away with less effort than some less gifted players, Jake didn't need to develop some of the other hockey skills.  As an example a player like Stecher, who was undersized, had to learn to develop other skills to offset his lack of size, and obviously he was very successful at doing this.  Tanev is another example who credits his lack of size as a junior, for him developing his other skills to offset. [he later had a huge growth spurt, but by then had these added skills]
3. The criticism about how he was managed by the Hitman is probably founded on his lack of consistency and effort.  You have to ask why the coach wouldn't be giving this elite player prime time, but they didn't.  But Jake doesn't seem to care because by now he has been drafted #6 overall and his future is all but set.
4. Right after the draft he has shoulder surgery, which was know before and is out until October 2014 but he comes back strong, hitting hard, and it looks like his shoulder is fine.  He goes on to have a very 'average draft + 1' year, putting up a PPG, about the same as his draft year, so a little disappointing.
5. He plays in his first World Juniors 2014/15 and doesn't impress, but we forgive because he is very young and has so much potential.  But he can't seem to use all these 'tools' he has and plays a lesser role on the team,  a team of elite level players where he no longer can dominate on natural talent alone.  Are these coaches of the World Junior team wrong as well?
6. The following year he plays for the Canucks instead of playing junior and has an ok year, but some of his issues are starting to show.  Again, he is now playing with a much higher talent level, who are faster and bigger and he can no longer easily dominate.
7. He goes on to play his second WJ, 2015/16, and the results are worse than the previous year.  Again, you can see by his deployment that the coaches don't see him as a main player despite him being a returning player.  At this stage he should have really dominated being a year older, having NHL experience, and having the ability to dominate because of his physical size.  He ended up being the scapegoat for Team Canada, undeservingly, but responded well when he came back to the Canucks.  Nonetheless, a disappointing performance, but more importantly he was evaluated by Team Canada well down their depth chart, and flags were being raised.
8. He starts the 2016/17 as a Canuck, plays 10 games, has zero goals, one assist and 2 PIM.  Apparently by now everyone in the organization has talked to him from Burrows, Sedin's, Willy, JB, and Linden, but he isn't getting the message.  His hitting has started to slow down and there is speculation he may be injured or maybe it's his shoulder.  He is less aggressive, not hitting [after leading the team the previous year], not using his speed or shot, and playing on the outside vs. using his strength and speed to drive to the net.
9. Now after a year and a bit, I am seeing way too many similarities between Jake and Kassian [take away the substance abuse issues].  After supporting Kassian for a long time, I finally said on here he was not willing to 'engage', and played on the outside chasing the play vs. attacking it.  Jake is demonstrating this as well.  Instead of getting in on the forecheck and retrieving the puck, both of these players are seen too often waiting for someone else to get the puck to them for the scoring opportunity.  Or he delays forcing the play with speed and aggressiveness and chases it, avoiding engagement.
10. The few posters on here that have been watching the Comets talk about all of these things including not using his speed and size.  Apart from a short spurt of goals, his production in the AHL has been as disappointing as his effort.

I remember listening to Ray Ferraro speaking on TSN 1040 last year, and he was talking about why some players don't make it, and he gave several examples of how so many failed, as well as some nice success stories.  He said after all the players talent, all the coaching and mentoring etc., it is up to the player to put it all together and 'get it'.  At that point there is little you can do, they either get it or they don't, and a lot of very talented and high picks don't make it because they never get it.  Players like Bo and Linden get it very early.  I am starting to fear that Virtanen might never get it.  Some of you will think it is way too early to judge, BUT if he doesn't 'get it', time playing the same way he is now won't make any difference, it will only delay management and the fan base finally accepting the reality.  Look no farther than our friend Kassian, now recovered from the addiction, and finally understand he is on his last chance, and with all the tools he has been blessed with, he looks like he will now be a career 4th liner, on track for around 20 points at age 25.  

 

I think a lot has to do with effort and desire, two traits that he never had to fully develop as a junior because he was gifted, and could get by mostly on his natural talent.  Jake just does not seem to understand that he needs to significantly raise his effort and develop a higher level of NHL skills.  [if you don't agree with this look no further than Bo, at how he has improved his skating and is constantly developing his skills with and without the puck].   I hope I am wrong and that Jake does finally get it and turns into the player JB thought he could be when he drafted him.  Until he fully gets it and demonstrates it on a consistent basis, he should not play any further NHL games , regardless of injuries.  He needs to get the message he has a long way to becoming the NHL player he thought he was.

I'll say we REALLY have to be patient with him, meaning we have to wait a little longer to finally realising what we have, but very well put. Agree 100%

[alfstonker]

12 hours ago, Down by the River said:

 

I've taken some heat for it on this board before, but I'll say it again: personality does not tend to change too much after 18 and especially not after the early 20s. We will have to wait a few years to see if JV's problem is related to maturity or personality... but I kind of suspect it is the latter, in which case we will not see the type of improvement we hoped for. 

 

You make a good point about the contradiction between Benning's emphasis on character and the subsequent drafting of JV. You could pick out JVs issues within a couple minutes, so it wasn't as if Benning an co. would have missed this in their interviews. 

 

Except I have noticed Jake is quite "smart/sneaky" in his interviews with the media. It is never his fault and when he does remotely accept any responsibility he always tends to qualify it in a way that makes him a bit of a martyr. 

 

So I don't doubt he prepared himself for the Benning/Canucks interviews and said all the right things in order to make an impression. 

 

For me the most telling flaw in his character was the slapping of the players head into the boards after the guy was down and defenceless. It was not the severity of the "slap" but the fact he even thought it was necessary. I didn't like it because the guy he did it to was not a fighter who would get up and retaliate. If we want Jake slapping heads into boards we want these heads to be guys like Kadri, Nolan etc

 

That said there are a good few players, well "respected" players in the League who have that needlessly nasty side to their game (Keith for example) and it doesn't seem to hold them back so I am still hopeful that a spell in Utica will eventually bring Jake to his senses and he starts to get his head down and works his ass off. We need the hard working Jake in Vancouver.

Edited January 2, 2017 by alfstonker

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, Stormriders said:

First let me say I have been a big Jake supporter, as I was Kassian, but I am seeing some alarming similarities.  I have followed Jake since his last two junior years, and there is clearly something missing.  I will admit I have not watched a single Comet game this year, and only the playoffs for Utica in 2015, so all that he has done/ or not done in the AHL apart from that is through posters, media etc.  Here are a few things I see and speculate about Jake.

1. When he was a junior he was a very large, powerful player with great speed and a good shot.  Because of his size he was able to dominate the smaller juniors, so it was relatively easy.  Because it was easy, he could get away with a lower work ethic and drive to improve.  He was already dominating.  A simple case of someone that found it easy and didn't have to try as hard.
2. Also, because the game came easy and he could get away with less effort than some less gifted players, Jake didn't need to develop some of the other hockey skills.  As an example a player like Stecher, who was undersized, had to learn to develop other skills to offset his lack of size, and obviously he was very successful at doing this.  Tanev is another example who credits his lack of size as a junior, for him developing his other skills to offset. [he later had a huge growth spurt, but by then had these added skills]
3. The criticism about how he was managed by the Hitman is probably founded on his lack of consistency and effort.  You have to ask why the coach wouldn't be giving this elite player prime time, but they didn't.  But Jake doesn't seem to care because by now he has been drafted #6 overall and his future is all but set.
4. Right after the draft he has shoulder surgery, which was know before and is out until October 2014 but he comes back strong, hitting hard, and it looks like his shoulder is fine.  He goes on to have a very 'average draft + 1' year, putting up a PPG, about the same as his draft year, so a little disappointing.
5. He plays in his first World Juniors 2014/15 and doesn't impress, but we forgive because he is very young and has so much potential.  But he can't seem to use all these 'tools' he has and plays a lesser role on the team,  a team of elite level players where he no longer can dominate on natural talent alone.  Are these coaches of the World Junior team wrong as well?
6. The following year he plays for the Canucks instead of playing junior and has an ok year, but some of his issues are starting to show.  Again, he is now playing with a much higher talent level, who are faster and bigger and he can no longer easily dominate.
7. He goes on to play his second WJ, 2015/16, and the results are worse than the previous year.  Again, you can see by his deployment that the coaches don't see him as a main player despite him being a returning player.  At this stage he should have really dominated being a year older, having NHL experience, and having the ability to dominate because of his physical size.  He ended up being the scapegoat for Team Canada, undeservingly, but responded well when he came back to the Canucks.  Nonetheless, a disappointing performance, but more importantly he was evaluated by Team Canada well down their depth chart, and flags were being raised.
8. He starts the 2016/17 as a Canuck, plays 10 games, has zero goals, one assist and 2 PIM.  Apparently by now everyone in the organization has talked to him from Burrows, Sedin's, Willy, JB, and Linden, but he isn't getting the message.  His hitting has started to slow down and there is speculation he may be injured or maybe it's his shoulder.  He is less aggressive, not hitting [after leading the team the previous year], not using his speed or shot, and playing on the outside vs. using his strength and speed to drive to the net.
9. Now after a year and a bit, I am seeing way too many similarities between Jake and Kassian [take away the substance abuse issues].  After supporting Kassian for a long time, I finally said on here he was not willing to 'engage', and played on the outside chasing the play vs. attacking it.  Jake is demonstrating this as well.  Instead of getting in on the forecheck and retrieving the puck, both of these players are seen too often waiting for someone else to get the puck to them for the scoring opportunity.  Or he delays forcing the play with speed and aggressiveness and chases it, avoiding engagement.
10. The few posters on here that have been watching the Comets talk about all of these things including not using his speed and size.  Apart from a short spurt of goals, his production in the AHL has been as disappointing as his effort.

I remember listening to Ray Ferraro speaking on TSN 1040 last year, and he was talking about why some players don't make it, and he gave several examples of how so many failed, as well as some nice success stories.  He said after all the players talent, all the coaching and mentoring etc., it is up to the player to put it all together and 'get it'.  At that point there is little you can do, they either get it or they don't, and a lot of very talented and high picks don't make it because they never get it.  Players like Bo and Linden get it very early.  I am starting to fear that Virtanen might never get it.  Some of you will think it is way too early to judge, BUT if he doesn't 'get it', time playing the same way he is now won't make any difference, it will only delay management and the fan base finally accepting the reality.  Look no farther than our friend Kassian, now recovered from the addiction, and finally understand he is on his last chance, and with all the tools he has been blessed with, he looks like he will now be a career 4th liner, on track for around 20 points at age 25.  

 

I think a lot has to do with effort and desire, two traits that he never had to fully develop as a junior because he was gifted, and could get by mostly on his natural talent.  Jake just does not seem to understand that he needs to significantly raise his effort and develop a higher level of NHL skills.  [if you don't agree with this look no further than Bo, at how he has improved his skating and is constantly developing his skills with and without the puck].   I hope I am wrong and that Jake does finally get it and turns into the player JB thought he could be when he drafted him.  Until he fully gets it and demonstrates it on a consistent basis, he should not play any further NHL games , regardless of injuries.  He needs to get the message he has a long way to becoming the NHL player he thought he was.

 

Great post man.

[alfstonker]

7 hours ago, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Wow. Virtanen has a ton of potential and its still more than likely that he will figure it out in 1-2 years. Why should we give him away , when with some patience and time to work at his craft he could become game breaking talent?

 

All you saying trade him are so narrow sighted. You are probably the same people that said keep him with the big club the first year. 

 

Anyway I  believe 100% that jake is going to turn it around and when he does WATCH OUT.

 

Your talk is cheap though. If I come back in 2-3 years and Jake is still not "getting it" what is it to you? Nothing, you may not even be on these boards. 

 

Management can't afford an endless ball of string like some people on here. We heard all the same apologists bleating out the same excuses for Kassian. JB has to start to see some evidence that the player has reformed, not the usual "Jake speak" or "Kassian speak" where they say all the right things (probably written down for them by their agent) and do the exact opposite.

 

Peoples jobs are on the line, or haven't you noticed? If Jake is not "getting it" in Utica then Green is put in an awkward situation. He is trying to build a winning team and if you have one guy not singing from the same song sheet it can become contagious.

 

For me youth is not an excuse. Young players tend to be impressionable, malleable and suck in instruction and guidance like sponges. They want to improve, want to get better and want to work. If Jake doesn't have that then he will be a liability. 

 

He is getting what "he said" he wanted and that is big? minutes in Utica. Forget what line he is on, that is immaterial, he should be running any line he is on, if he can't cut it down there after a season, we have a problem - and it isn't the coach.

 

 

[terrible.dee]

On 12/31/2016 at 9:48 AM, gurn said:

Please post the name of that someone. Do some research, before you say something dumb.

What the hell is wrong with you?

 

Gawd, steer clear of anyone who spends NY eve on CDC

 

 

Are you not allowed to take a dump till Bmac posts a rumor about it on his twitter?

 

The story as I remember was some media guy between periods, said that if the Canucks wanted Droin, then Stevey Y would ask for Horvat

 

Did he? I don't know. what I do know is that you shouldn't take trade rumors so personally, it's creepy

[terrible.dee]

48 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

Your talk is cheap though. If I come back in 2-3 years and Jake is still not "getting it" what is it to you? Nothing, you may not even be on these boards. 

 

Management can't afford an endless ball of string like some people on here. We heard all the same apologists bleating out the same excuses for Kassian. JB has to start to see some evidence that the player has reformed, not the usual "Jake speak" or "Kassian speak" where they say all the right things (probably written down for them by their agent) and do the exact opposite.

 

Peoples jobs are on the line, or haven't you noticed? If Jake is not "getting it" in Utica then Green is put in an awkward situation. He is trying to build a winning team and if you have one guy not singing from the same song sheet it can become contagious.

 

For me youth is not an excuse. Young players tend to be impressionable, malleable and suck in instruction and guidance like sponges. They want to improve, want to get better and want to work. If Jake doesn't have that then he will be a liability. 

 

He is getting what "he said" he wanted and that is big? minutes in Utica. Forget what line he is on, that is immaterial, he should be running any line he is on, if he can't cut it down there after a season, we have a problem - and it isn't the coach.

 

 

 

Thank you, so few people are capable of legitimate critical thinking onCDC, it's refreshing to read.

[terrible.dee]

12 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

 

This has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read.  You signed up for this forum, this forum consists of fans sharing opinions, what the hell do you expect?  

  Anybody with a little bit of basic hockey knowledge could tell you that Virtanen is not a 6th overall talent. I think you are the one who is clueless.

 

A few players will bust every draft year.  Looking back at the 2014 first round, other than Conner Bleakley, Jake has been the most disappointing being outscored at the AHL level by EVERY other forward taken in that first round.  Even Michael Dal Colle who was rumored in trades for his lack of progression is scoring at a higher PPG rate than Virtanen.   It was a god awful pick from the get go and rushing him only made matters worse.  I have never seen a player with such a lack of understanding for the game, it has been pathetic to watch.  With a bunged up shoulder to boot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BOOM! You want the truth CDC?

 

You can't handle the truth!

 

And whether you all like it or not (none of us do) THIS is the truth

 

Including that other post being one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here, I've played hockey, I know how the game works, when someone sucks I don't need an "expert" to tell me

[alfstonker]

2 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

Thank you, so few people are capable of legitimate critical thinking onCDC, it's refreshing to read.

 nvm

Edited January 2, 2017 by alfstonker

[elvis15]

On 12/31/2016 at 4:03 PM, Ihatetomatoes said:

That's a good point. PF type guys are probably rushed into the NHL sooner than they should because they can contribute in a 3rd line role. Probably why people feel that they take longer to develop than small forwards. It's just that they watch them develop over years in the NHL vs coming into the NHL a little older and contributing right away. Same ages just one guy feels like he took longer because he's been in the limelight. 

Then maybe we can change it from 'development' to say something more like they take longer to contribute closer to their ceiling in the NHL.

 

We saw it with trading away Neely, then the opposite way with Bertuzzi, but also other players like Wheeler (who the Bruins had originally) who people had questions over until they became really productive players. I don't know that any team really wants to trade those types of players, but they can be used as pieces to get other players back or make space as teams are often willing to take a chance on them finding their potential.

[Gurn]

4 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

What the hell is wrong with you?

 

Gawd, steer clear of anyone who spends NY eve on CDC

 

 

Are you not allowed to take a dump till Bmac posts a rumor about it on his twitter?

 

The story as I remember was some media guy between periods, said that if the Canucks wanted Droin, then Stevey Y would ask for Horvat

 

Did he? I don't know. what I do know is that you shouldn't take trade rumors so personally, it's creepy

If Westcoasting had said something like " iirc" or "didn't some media hack say"  then when asked by posters for some verification, either said who or "said sorry guys I'm ona phone" there would have been no fuss. Unfortunately that is not how it went down, originally.

 

 

Also, there is nothing wrong with me.

Edited January 2, 2017 by gurn

[elvis15]

On 12/31/2016 at 6:43 PM, Odd. said:

Sedins, Naslund, Bertuzzi, when you first saw these players young nobody would have ever thought they would go on to become 100 point players and become superstars. People would say yes they're good and skilled, but not that good to the point where they become superstars, or 100 point players that is. That's the point he was trying to make. Too early to judge players at 20. Now not saying Virtanen's gonna be putting up 100 points a season but if he does become anywhere close to his potential, surely you can't be mad at that pick. 

But by the same token you saw some evidence earlier on that the skill level was there. Even if they overachieved early before other players got a read on them, they still had a starting base in the NHL offensively so that people weren't writing off their ceilings early on.

 

With Virtanen, we've only really see the odd play or very small stretches of the skill we hoped for when he was drafted. Thankfully he's had other good play on defence and in possession numbers, but that's secondary to what we're looking for from a 6th overall pick (and our highest in a long time).

 

So, while the early-20's version of any player is hardly the finished product (or even a perfect representation of the potential), it can be an good start to give fans an idea of the player they could become. Of course, then there's the McDavid's of the world who probably even elevated their ceiling as rookies - wouldn't that be nice in a 'Nucks uni?

[clam linguine]

4 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

Thank you, so few people are capable of legitimate critical thinking onCDC, it's refreshing to read.

 

4 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

BOOM! You want the truth CDC?

 

You can't handle the truth!

 

And whether you all like it or not (none of us do) THIS is the truth

The little green arrow is a nice way to season your appreciation for a good post.  Don't be so cheap 

Edited January 2, 2017 by clam linguine

[Caknuckle Puck]

18 hours ago, Down by the River said:

 

I've taken some heat for it on this board before, but I'll say it again: personality does not tend to change too much after 18 and especially not after the early 20s. We will have to wait a few years to see if JV's problem is related to maturity or personality... but I kind of suspect it is the latter, in which case we will not see the type of improvement we hoped for. 

 

You make a good point about the contradiction between Benning's emphasis on character and the subsequent drafting of JV. You could pick out JVs issues within a couple minutes, so it wasn't as if Benning an co. would have missed this in their interviews. 

I matured around 23-24

[Zhukini]

15 hours ago, Frail Granny said:

May someone please catch me up on Jake's perceived immaturity? Are there examples of something he's said or done to warrant these claims? 

Reports of him being last on the ice for practise and first off it. Plus he's a big party boy, and if you're into Vancouver nightlife, chances are you've seen him around more than any other Canuck

[elvis15]

5 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

What the hell is wrong with you?

 

Gawd, steer clear of anyone who spends NY eve on CDC

 

 

Are you not allowed to take a dump till Bmac posts a rumor about it on his twitter?

 

The story as I remember was some media guy between periods, said that if the Canucks wanted Droin, then Stevey Y would ask for Horvat

 

Did he? I don't know. what I do know is that you shouldn't take trade rumors so personally, it's creepy

You could be worried about a guy posting on CDC New Year's eve, or you could be worried about the guy posting two days later who hasn't bothered to read the replies in that conversation and still gets the story wrong.