kloubek Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: I like Baer - have since he put up insane numbers in CHL. I think Flames gave up on him waaay early. He is fast, tenacious and has relatively low miles on him being a bit of a late bloomer. I think he could play in any top 6 in the NHL. I know I get slammed for that but I don't post to be popular - otherwise I would change my name to Guardian or bloodyheads or similar. hehehe. I agree with you, once again. He gets ragged on for having somewhat of a 1 dimensional game but he has shown willingness to work on his deficiencies. People mention that he has only had a limited amount of points per season but injury is a big reason for that. I think Baertschi, while having a certain limited upside, will prove he is a true 2nd liner next season once and for all. (IF we keep him) As for Virtanen, it is great to see him putting stuff together but he still has a long ways to go before he is a 2nd line player. This offseason will be huge for him. I'm rooting for him, but truly think he will end up an elite 3rd liner - which was my prediction for him from the beginning. Edited April 17, 2018 by kloubek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) My problem with Baer isn't so much capability (he's a decent 2nd liner IMO), but fit. I've made no secret I don't particularly care for him with Horvat. They're both good players but an ill fit IMO. So I guess a lot hinges on who our '2C' is next year (Sutter might technically be by minutes played but I don't truly view him as a '2C'). So do we sign a Bozak or similar? Do we trade for a Jenner or similar? Is EP40 going to come in and play that role (likely sheltered, '3rd line' minutes though)? Or is EP40 going to be on '2nd' RW? I could see a potential '2nd' line of say Baer, Jenner, Pettersson possibly working nicely but that C needs some some size/grit IMO (Jenner or otherwise). To bring Virtanen in to the convo (and size to that line), perhaps a line of Baer, Pettersson, Virtanen? And all this begs the question, who plays LW with Horvat and Boeser? Leipsic might not be a 'true 1LW' but he (or maybe Goldy) might be the best fit there. Next year anyway. It's going to be an interesting summer/camp.... Edited April 17, 2018 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I don't see how anyone sees Jake as anything other than a top 6 forward next year (especially on this team) and the years to come. The combination of speed and size is absolutely elite. He creates so much space and changes the momentum of the game even if he doesn't score on as many chances as we would like. If he has a good summer working on his finish, the potential is enormous. Just watching these playoffs should give you a sense that he is the type of player that would thrive in the playoffs. With the way that Nylander has disappeared, I'm sure people are less upset about the Canucks passing on him. Virtanen can contribute to a tight-checking physical series in ways that players like Ehlers and Nylander simply cannot. But he can also break the game open with his speed. These two aspects are what make Jake unique and such a valuable asset, especially come playoff time (whenever it is that we make it). 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 If he can truly work on his shot over the summer I don't think 20 goals is out of the question next season, and given his work ethic the past couple of months I actually have faith in him for the first time. Go get em Virt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caknuckle Puck Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Virtanen will be a better player then Nylander, this summer his hands and shot accuracy training could be godly for him. excited to see next season 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 On 4/17/2018 at 8:40 AM, kloubek said: hehehe. I agree with you, once again. He gets ragged on for having somewhat of a 1 dimensional game but he has shown willingness to work on his deficiencies. People mention that he has only had a limited amount of points per season but injury is a big reason for that. I think Baertschi, while having a certain limited upside, will prove he is a true 2nd liner next season once and for all. (IF we keep him)As for Virtanen, it is great to see him putting stuff together but he still has a long ways to go before he is a 2nd line player. This offseason will be huge for him. I'm rooting for him, but truly think he will end up an elite 3rd liner - which was my prediction for him from the beginning. I dunno. I am watching a lot of these playoffs and can see him excelling on at least 1/2 the team's top 6 right now. He would be the missing ingredients for a few teams. He would have made Anaheim look competitive, for example. He would be a beast alongside Krejci as another example. Could play the role Watson plays but with more skill in Nashville. I think Jake is not one of the players who you point as the key piece - I see him more of the type of player that if surrounded by top talent he will really excel. I recall watching the WJC when he was with McDavid and Jake was perhaps the second best player on the ice whenever that line was on...he was the only one who could keep up with McD and become more creative etc. too during that tourney and seemingly had a good scoring chance every shift. The concept of Jake on EP's wing is tantalizing to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Don't sugar coat it. Jake skated well with McDavid but they weren't producing anything and he was quickly taken off that line and was pushed back down to the third line. It was a great opportunity for him but it didn't work out. And what player wouldn't excel when surrounded by top talent? Well, apparently Virtanen at the WJHC didn't He's not ready to produce at a top 6 level so why try to force him to become that already? He's not a raw rookie anymore and nothing about his last few seasons screams top 6 winger. The point production just isn't there and the consistency isn't there yet either. Jake will be in our top nine. He will be a ver effective player for us, especially in the playoffs. He’s a bigger, more talented, and more skilled Janik Hansen. That’s a heck of an important piece. Seeing how bad both Nylander and Ehlers have been in the playoffs, I’m glad we have Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: I dunno. I am watching a lot of these playoffs and can see him excelling on at least 1/2 the team's top 6 right now. He would be the missing ingredients for a few teams. He would have made Anaheim look competitive, for example. He would be a beast alongside Krejci as another example. Could play the role Watson plays but with more skill in Nashville. I think Jake is not one of the players who you point as the key piece - I see him more of the type of player that if surrounded by top talent he will really excel. How much could Toronto especially use a Virtanen with Matthews or Marner right now? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Don't sugar coat it. Jake skated well with McDavid but they weren't producing anything and he was quickly taken off that line and was pushed back down to the third line. It was a great opportunity for him but it didn't work out. And what player wouldn't excel when surrounded by top talent? Well, apparently Virtanen at the WJHC didn't He's not ready to produce at a top 6 level so why try to force him to become that already? He's not a raw rookie anymore and nothing about his last few seasons screams top 6 winger. The point production just isn't there and the consistency isn't there yet either. Uh, four games isn't "quickly taken off". Are you talking U-20 or U-18...I am talking about the latter. I differ in opinion than you - he IS ready to produce but has not been playing with top 6 players. Put him with upper tier talent and he will get it done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: How much could Toronto especially use a Virtanen with Matthews or Marner right now? IMHO on that line he would transform it entirely and give M&M far more space to work in. I am also pretty sure he would go into the corner to get the puck for them - something their current linemate is apparently unwilling or unable to accomplish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 minute ago, The 5th Line said: Yes he could be an extremely valuable piece come playoff time but until he actually gets there and proves himself you can't compare him with others. Uh, isn't that the entire point of this forum? Idle speculation from uninformed minds that are often influenced by a wiggly pop or two between periods when we should be doing other things? Further, when you know that a player has a certain type of game and those elements are amplified in the playoffs - is it really a reach to think that such would not play into his hand? Back to earth - what you can compare is his elite skating skill and ability to be a massive distraction out there as you don't want to get caught with your head down or holding onto the puck too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Okay you said WJC which would be the u-20 tournament, and no you weren't talking about the U-18 tournament because they never even played on the same team for the U-18's... You are literally just making stuff up again, trying to make yourself look smart and trying to be Mr. Nice guy on the forum even though half the things you say are completely untrue. And the sheep will continue to follow. Am I really the only one seeing this? lol U18 is also called WJC - was in my day and still is. Yup, making stuff up. Got the game sheets here so all good for me. I am not nice - I killed two spiders and hour ago in my hotel room. German police are on their way. The only sheep are the ones that try to put you to sleep but the boots you wear to bed have them quite nervous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: People here are bashing Ehlers/Nylander poor showings and they are just 21 years old, where is the patience? And they were both big parts of their teams offence in the reg season which helped there playoff seedings greatly. So until Virtanen can actually earn his way in to a playoff scenario, the bashing of other players who are currently in the playoffs while we are golfing is weak. To each their own I guess No one is bashing their talent, simply questioning their ability to play playoff hockey. Patience works with game development - not so sure it works in growing a spine. My own is to not invent narrative but to add opinion based upon observation and experience. Your own is up to you. My own seems to fascinate you as you, more than any other poster on CDC, never seem happy with it and even when later on facts prove that observation correct you simply change your position to make sure you can remain at odds. Curious approach. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Let's see these game sheets. Meet me in Berlin this weekend. Games seem to be from the fall so my guess would be development games. Were you there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: People here are bashing Ehlers/Nylander poor showings and they are just 21 years old, where is the patience? And they were both big parts of their teams offence in the reg season which helped there playoff seedings greatly. So until Virtanen can actually earn his way in to a playoff scenario, the bashing of other players who are currently in the playoffs while we are golfing is weak. To each their own I guess So you're ok with being patient with your boys Ehlers and Nylander, but you won't afford the same treatment for Virtanen? The kid that plays for the team that you're supposedly a fan of? You make no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I have posted this before but here we go again... Every year that Jake played in the WHL his ppg is lower in the playoffs than in the regular season. He only had 1 assist in 10 games during the Comets Calder Cup run a few years ago. He did not play very well in the WJC despite being given a top 6 role and being one of the older players on the team. Down the stretch last year Utica could have used any offence. A few goals from Virtanen would have helped them make the playoffs but he did not produce. There is no empirical evidence of Jake raising his game in high leverage situations. Until we make the playoffs and he proves himself to be a big game player, he is not a playoff performer. Period. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 3 hours ago, The 5th Line said: It was a shot at the people who constantly preach patience for our guys but are quick to shut that narrative down when it comes to players on other teams. That was my point Sooo is anybody going to call out Robb for blatantly lying AGAIN on this forum or am I just gonna have to sit here and take a bunch of crap from 5 different posters, like usual? That's a fair point.... If anyone actually gave a crap about Ehlers and Nylander. They aren't Canucks. And then Toews there is talking empirical evidence, when neither of those guys have done anything in the playoffs either. I know you didn't actually mention those 2 in your post, but everyone paying attention knows the armchair GM in you, won't allow you to let go of the 2014 draft. As for the Rob Zepp thing... I looked it up using elite prospects and I don't see how their play intersected during tournament play, other than having played together on the gold medal U-20 team. I only used 1 source though so I can't comment on what anyone else knows. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=120197 http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=183442#awards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 35 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Rob makes things up, I have caught him doing it multiple times but everyone seems to just turn a blind eye because they only like listening to what they want to hear. Whatever I'm totally over the draft, and I am watching the Leafs game while hoping Nylander fails. I hate everything about the leafs. I like what we might have with Virtanen, I'm not worried about it but that doesn't mean I don't think it was still the wrong pick because as of right now nothing has really shown us otherwise. I enjoy the discussion and that is why I always engage The bottom line is that hockey is big business, so picking a hometown kid is no big news. Jake's skating and hitting alone gets the fans on their feet. If he can ever put up 2nd line #s, he'll be a fan favourite. Nylander would never be able to create the storyline that Jake will. His speed and size will create space for the more skilled players to do their magic in the o-zone. I doubt he'll ever put up #s like Nylander, but I really don't think the fans will care that much. They have guys like EP, Boeser, Dahlen and Horvat winning the games, but Jake will be just as exciting utilizing his own set of skills. Imo, Jake was an Aquiline pick and I just can't be bothered about all that. Like I said, I think he'll bring something unique to the team that Nylander never would and the fans will be satisfied with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Toews said: I have posted this before but here we go again... Every year that Jake played in the WHL his ppg is lower in the playoffs than in the regular season. He only had 1 assist in 10 games during the Comets Calder Cup run a few years ago. He did not play very well in the WJC despite being given a top 6 role and being one of the older players on the team. Down the stretch last year Utica could have used any offence. A few goals from Virtanen would have helped them make the playoffs but he did not produce. There is no empirical evidence of Jake raising his game in high leverage situations. Until we make the playoffs and he proves himself to be a big game player, he is not a playoff performer. Period. This. Logically, it makes sense that Virtanen would be valuable in the Playoffs, but we haven't seen it so we don't know yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: I dunno. I am watching a lot of these playoffs and can see him excelling on at least 1/2 the team's top 6 right now. He would be the missing ingredients for a few teams. He would have made Anaheim look competitive, for example. He would be a beast alongside Krejci as another example. Could play the role Watson plays but with more skill in Nashville. I think Jake is not one of the players who you point as the key piece - I see him more of the type of player that if surrounded by top talent he will really excel. I recall watching the WJC when he was with McDavid and Jake was perhaps the second best player on the ice whenever that line was on...he was the only one who could keep up with McD and become more creative etc. too during that tourney and seemingly had a good scoring chance every shift. The concept of Jake on EP's wing is tantalizing to me. So you are saying you think he is 2nd line material? Hes been placed with 2nd line guys.... Sedins. Bo and Baer. I think he has been given opportunities to excel as it is, and the kid is only showing flashes still of finding the net. I think he needs to boost his shooting accuracy and watch tons and tons of film to see how plays develop for both his own offensive attack but to anticipate defensively as well. He has the raw tools. Always has. But imo, his lack of success so far is on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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