[Article] Benning's remake of Canucks an uncluttered picture

[Robongo]

Lets look at hindsight since the trade.

Ehrhoff

192 gp 87 p

Earned 22 million

plus and additional 12 million over the next 14 years for the buyout

Bieska

190 gp 80 p

Earned 16.5 million

The fact that your arguing that we should have re-signed a player that was just bought out just proves you don't know what your talking about. Ehrhoff was not worth the money that he was going to command. Gillis was smart in letting the Ehrhoff walk, his replacement choices (gragnani, ballard) on the other hand weren't so smart.

Ehrhoff was playing on a terrible Buffalo team so the point comparison between the two is moot. He had back to back 50 point seasons with us and he'd have had at least a couple more 40++ with us.

The fact that he was bought out is not indicative of his play at all, but of his contract and the recapture penalty. Are you sure you even know what you're talking about?

Ehrhoff was worth a 5 year deal paying him 5.5 per year. If we had offered him something in that ballpark, he would most likely still be a Canuck.

[nuck nit]

MG never had a clue of the importance of PMD's and lost his job in large part because the team did not replace the two they had.

Continue to work for half of what you are offered elsewhere and then tell me you are not greedy.

Stupid,yes.

[Canuck Surfer]

1) Did he actually? I honestly don't know. It's just that you so often hear GMs get crapped on for "letting guys go" via Free Agency as if there are no other reasons why they'd be signing elsewhere.

2) Marco Sturm was pretty horrible when we traded him. I wouldn't call him a "good asset"...

(PS: That is one awesome picture of Benning, haha.)

Lol, yeah good assets was a hastily / poorly created point.

Samuelsson was damaged goods, and declining. But he had been very good for us when healthy. And he was still important.

The real problem was the impact on our depth chart.

The allure of Booth was that he was a big, fast, physically capable PF. Problem was he was a LW, and not very good on his off wing. Sturm and Samuelsson were RW. Related, he did not really play physical. Nor did he use his speed, to fore-check and create fear and havoc for opposing D like Torres did. I'll get back to Booth in a second.

It left us with Hansen as our best natural RW. Sure Burrows plays well there. But were stacked at LW. We had Raymond, Burrows, Danny Sedin, Higgins, even our top prospect at the time, Jensen was a LW. So Raymonds productivity dipped as his minutes disappeared amongst over competition. Ultimately he left for nothing as well. Samuelson was (by far) our best passing forward behind the Twins, 220 lbs which he used effectively on the boards / in front of the net if not to hit and had a good enough (right handed) shot to play on the PP point. We lost so many looks in our top 6 when he left. And had no RW, never mind anyone to fill those looks, to even replace him. Without his passing, size and shot, productivity dropped for Kesler, Raymond and all others who patrolled the 2knd lines.

So with one vacuum created at RW, Hodgson was coming in and filling the secondary passing that Samuelsson used to offer. But with such a huge hole at RW... Guess who was next to go? As Hodgson left, there remained no secondary play making anywhere below our top line. Booth is the type of guy who needed a play maker like Hodgson, or he was never going to help us. Nor did Kassian step into the RW role. We now had two big holes...

Three and if you include Malhotra not being adequately replaced.

Four if you include Torres.

Five, and a big one, if you include Ehrrhof.

Bit of a stretch, but 6 if you include Raymond. Look, he had speed, defensive coverage and a 25 goal / 50 point season for us.

All of that gone, with only Kassian (who we waited for) to show for it.

All of our depth was allowed to walk.

Then ultimately we started stacking more responsibilities, which they were less suited for, on the Twins.

And took them more and more away from the offensive game they were good at.

And they got injured playing defensive hockey.

And at no point was the stem tied!

So Gillis was fired.

[nuck nit]

Detailed article on Gillis losing Ehrhoff and Salo whom were both playing on the right side.

Not only did Gillis lose his two best PMD's,he lost two right hand side d men.

That left Bieksa ,so they brought in the rookie Tanev because Gillis was down to one d man that played the right side.

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/08/26/in-an-ironic-turn-canucks-now-lack-depth-on-left-side-of-defence/

[aGENT]

Detailed article on Gillis losing Ehrhoff and Salo whom were both playing on the right side.

Not only did Gillis lose his two best PMD's,he lost two right hand side d men.

That left Bieksa ,so they brought in the rookie Tanev because Gillis was down to one d man that played the right side.

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/08/26/in-an-ironic-turn-canucks-now-lack-depth-on-left-side-of-defence/

I think we've all agreed Salo/Ehrhoff were not properly replaced. Still (come on Benning!)

What we seem to disagree on was that grossly overpaying Ehrhoff was a "good" idea.

[nuck nit]

I think we've all agreed Salo/Ehrhoff were not properly replaced. Still (come on Benning!)

What we seem to disagree on was that grossly overpaying Ehrhoff was a "good" idea.

As the record and Robongo has described above,Gillis refused to pay him a fair wage,never mind "overpaying" him.

Gillis' refusal to alter his roster and cap space to accommodate Ehrhoff ,along with his refusal to negotiate and then insulting him as the final gesture is what I am left with.

Benning has only been on the job for a few months.Still, it has been my suspicion he was offering Shinkaruk and two firsts to acquire Ekblad,not Reinhart.

[PhillipBlunt]

Impressive considering he's a forward.

I thought he was a Muchmusic VJ.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Ehrhoff was playing on a terrible Buffalo team so the point comparison between the two is moot. He had back to back 50 point seasons with us and he'd have had at least a couple more 40++ with us.

The fact that he was bought out is not indicative of his play at all, but of his contract and the recapture penalty. Are you sure you even know what you're talking about?

Ehrhoff was worth a 5 year deal paying him 5.5 per year. If we had offered him something in that ballpark, he would most likely still be a Canuck.

If's and buts. Ehrhoff was signed as if he would be a 50 p player and he hasn't broke 40 points since. Mean while Bieska did. different teams or not on player offers a ton more than the other and in the last three years put up the same number all while costing a ton of money less. Facts are Ehrhoff left this team to go the the sabres, a team he himself deemed to be closer to winning a cup.

Again you use if's and buts, but the fact is canucks offered him 5 years 23 million and you think he would have stayed for 27.5 million. 27.5 is a long ways away from the 40 he got from the sabres. Ehrhoff was going to UFA to see what he could get. Did you forget that we traded his rights to New york Islanders and even Garth Snow said his offer was "well north of the canucks offer" and Ehrhoff still said no. The guy wanted money and as much guaranteed as possible. Yet you think a meer 3.5 million more over 5 years would have been all that it would have taken to keep him here.

If canucks wanted Ehrhoff it would have been for a similar deal to what the sabres offered him and canucks fans would have torched gillis even more to signing him to that deal. Ehrhoff was a double edge sword for gillis. Sign him and get lit up for the buyout or let him leave and try to replace him which he "tried" but properly failed to do.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

As the record and Robongo has described above,Gillis refused to pay him a fair wage,never mind "overpaying" him.

Gillis' refusal to alter his roster and cap space to accommodate Ehrhoff ,along with his refusal to negotiate and then insulting him as the final gesture is what I am left with.

Benning has only been on the job for a few months.Still, it has been my suspicion he was offering Shinkaruk and two firsts to acquire Ekblad,not Reinhart.

Do you forget how negotiation go.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=458308

Did you also forget the Islander offered him even more and he still said no. The guy was blinded by money and it's exactly way he held out to UFA to get as much as possible. Hey, it was his right but he was not worth canucks to bring back.

[nuck nit]

If's and buts.

Did you forget that we traded his rights to New york Islanders and even Garth Snow said his offer was "well north of the canucks offer" and Ehrhoff still said no. The guy wanted money and as much guaranteed as possible.

Snow was said to have offered $5m and it was reported at the time Ehrhoff wanted term+ $5.5 m-$6m to stay in Vancouver,which would have been an underpayment when comparing to what Buffalo were offering.

Gillis never signed another PMD and lost Salo the following year.

Gillis knew all players are fully entitled to be paid adequately and even receive bonus pay,as that is what he did for his clients.

The day of taking it for the billionaires ended when Bobby Baun had to inform Gordie Howe he was hurting the rest of the league's players:

After 19 years in the game, Gordie Howe had only worked himself up to $27,500 a year including bonuses. Detroit Red Wings owner Jack Adams would offer Howe a completed contract each year, with only the salary left blank. "Just fill in what you're worth, Gord," he said. "Howe dutifully added a mere $1,000 annual raise," Cruise and Griffiths report. "Adams, never deigning to look at the contract, would utter some variation of You're a good fella, Gord, clap him on the back and, if he were in a particularly expansive mood, take him out to lunch." Net Worth further depicts Gordie Howe as "the most shabbily treated superstar in sport" who even now is treated by the NHL as "little better than a water boy" when the league requires his services as an ambassador. Following his 26 years in the NHL, Gordie Howe now receives a pension of less than $13,000 annually. In Net Worth, the authors reveal that it was Toronto Maple Leaf defenceman Bobby Baun who finally made Howe realize that his naive humility was actually having the effect of holding down salaries throughout the league for more than a decade.

http://www.abcbookworld.com/view_author.php?id=3380

[terrible.dee]

I think people may not be sure what a PMD is,

It actually isn't an offensive defensemen,

It was first used to describe a guy who starts his team's D zone breakout with a quality first pass. Also, if the first option isn't available he would be able to quickly asses his secondary options and chose an alternative, all while under pressure from at least one forechecker. Technically it would apply to a guy who can rush the puck from one zone to another.

An offensive D-man might be a PMD, but one does not equal the other.

I remember Erhoff for jumping into the cycle once the zone had already been gained, I don't remember him getting the puck through the zones,

Did he? For those who remember, did he actually play a crucial role gaining the zone, or did he just start shinning one they got there?

[Tearloch7]

More the latter, as I recollect, but he was an offensive D-man so he was always up in the play .. he did make a great first pass too, and was very intelligent with the puck .. instinctively, I think .. I consider Doughty and Karlson true PMD's .. Suban and Keith as well

[nuck nit]

PMD's are offensively gifted,mobile d men that can pass effectively and create offense with the pass,skate,creativity and position.

Ehrhoff and Salo were/are PMD's while Mitchell and Garrison are not.

On the other hand, that was the strength of Ehrhoff’s game: he was unpredictable, which paid off on the powerplay. Opposition penalty killers could never really be sure where Ehrhoff would turn up next and the Sedins, with their superb vision, were able to take advantage of this. It added a wild card to the powerplay that made it hard to predict and, thus, hard to shut down..

Take a look at every goal Ehrhoff scored last season: he scored from everywhere on the ice. Some were one-timers from the blue line, but he found his way into the slot, the crease, the backdoor, and everywhere in between.

If the Canucks want to experience consistent success on the powerplay next season, they will need to figure out how to be unpredictable on the powerplay without Christian Ehrhoff. The most obvious answer would be to find a replacement Ehrhoff, someone with his unpredictable nature and offensive instincts.

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/05/03/where-the-canucks-really-missed-christian-ehrhoff/

[terrible.dee]

More the latter, as I recollect, but he was an offensive D-man so he was always up in the play .. he did make a great first pass too, and was very intelligent with the puck .. instinctively, I think .. I consider Doughty and Karlson true PMD's .. Suban and Keith as well

I agree, the guys you mentioned are true PMD's.

I also remember Erhoff's game being the same as you said.

Would be interesting to here A.V's call on how important Erhoff was to gaining the O-zone or moving out of the D-zone.

Aside from Kesler rushing the puck, I can't really remember how we broke out back then. I think I recall some slick set plays to get through the neutral zone,

Anyone remember our "Go-to" break out back then?

[Ghostsof1915]

Can we get back on track and talk about Benning instead of Hoff?

[oldnews]

GMJB already done landed that pmd diamond in the rough.

BobbySan.

Unreal underlying numbers!

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&s=29&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f5=CAR&f7=5-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

And more than a hit and blocked shot per game.

Guy can skate and move the puck!

You never know. Late bloomer.

[BanTSN]

No defenseman aside from MA Bergeron in that roster was more sheltered than him though. Considering Carolina, a team that is absolutely barren on defense, let him go you have to raise an eyebrow. I see BS as a Comet with callup potential. Just hasn't put it together enough to gain a full-time roster spot. Reminds me of Gragnani.

[aGENT]

You never know. Late bloomer.

Here's hoping!

[sting]

Look.

Gillis was not perfect. But very, very good in putting together a lot of complimentary pieces up to our run in 2010/2011. Signing Malhotra, signing Hamhuis, re-signing UFA's Salo, the Twins (who in recent memory has signed back to back league scoring champs and MVP candidates when they were UFA), signing Torres. I suppose I should credit that he, cough, also re-signed Lou just prior to our finals year. Prior to our run, he sort of spent like a drunken soldier. But we might have been even better in 2009/10 with Sundin, Demitra and Mitchell than our finals run. The Hawks were just that frackin good! Gillis did a good job!

But he lost the plot. People love Kassian, but we waited 3 years for him to be productive. We went seriously backwards even though he might be a good asset now. He let Torres walk, then traded good assets for Booth at 3 times the price he could have paid (a better) Torres. We did not replace Malhotra. Between losing Malhotra and Torres, we lost much of our physical match capability. We did not cash in Schneider when he had highest value. It is (widely) rumoured he could been converted into Jeff Carter from Columbus. Then of course Carter killed us in the play off's. Ehrrhof was never replaced. In a 2 year stretch starting summer 2011 he made almost no productive or helpful roster decision.

He started to get back on track his last year here. But the damage was done.

Yep...thats how I remember it.

Preaching to the choir.

Doesn't take away his most dominant team ever and almost Cup.

[sting]

GMJB already done landed that pmd diamond in the rough.

BobbySan.

Unreal underlying numbers!

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&s=29&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f5=CAR&f7=5-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

And more than a hit and blocked shot per game.

Guy can skate and move the puck!

You never know. Late bloomer.

wishful thinking.