Hugor Hill Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 one of the lesser GMs of the league leafs have high paid players that are not worth it. I would trade Kessel, phaneyf, kadri and bozak and in return try to get future 1c and 1D, and a top 6 forward. Kessel + Franson to NYI for Strome and Reinhart and cap dump and 2015 2nd Kadri and Bozak to SJS for Thornton Phaneuf to colorado for maginn and elliot and colorado 2nd 2015 Ok. Nonis is not that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 one of the lesser GMs of the league leafs have high paid players that are not worth it. I would trade Kessel, phaneyf, kadri and bozak and in return try to get future 1c and 1D, and a top 6 forward. Kessel + Franson to NYI for Strome and Reinhart and cap dump and 2015 2nd Kadri and Bozak to SJS for Thornton Phaneuf to colorado for maginn and elliot and colorado 2nd 2015 Only feasible deal is Strome for Kessel. Who is Maginn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure to Mogilny Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 If we hadn't brought in Vey Bonino and McCann... I'd love a tanev + for kadri deal. Yeah only 'if' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Phaneuf and Clarkson are the two they need to trade IMO. They need a top six forward and Phaneuf should be able to get one. he just signed both of them to the most ridiculous contracts. he'd essentially be signing his resignation if he does that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Ok. Nonis is not that stupid. Tommi Santala "the best 4th line c in the NHL" Doesn't even last half a season. On top of that trades 2nd 3rd round picks like candy an wonders why the cupboards are bare. Yes, Nonis is that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Clarkson with 2 million retained for Vinny from Philly?? Pls. I reckon Vinny still has some game. Good concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 How is it the fans fault that Burke traded for Kessel and that is the least of Toronto's worries. The awful Clarkson contract, a paper thin defense and a terrible coach are all bigger problems. I shake my head at all those who say trading Phaneuf is a good idea, he faces some of the toughest competition in the league and will have to do it again with a guy like Roman Polak on the top pairing. Phaneuf would be a decent #2 if they had a proper #1 to pair him with or even someone like Hamhuis or a Hjalmarsson would be a perfect partner for him. He has been miscast in a role as a shutdown defenseman when he is much more effective being the offensive defenseman along with a shutdown partner. Gunarsson was a decent player but he is more of a #4 than a #2 and now they traded him for a #5 lol. Its already a mess there, there is no need to blow up the team. I think they will give the Sabres a good fight for last place in the conference. Because instead of building through the draft. Burke goes to make a big splash, trade away 2 high first round picks to get Kessel. Leaf fans rejoice because its a quick fix. All these trades that Burke and Nonis and a lot of their predecessors do are to try quick fixes to long term problems. Toronto isn't hiring a GM to help draft good players, and build through the draft. They want to show the fans they are addressing the problem right now. That impatience is costing the team dearly. The fans and ownership need to understand you don't build a Cup winner overnight. They need to hire a GM that will do the job correctly, and let him do his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 How is it the fans fault that Burke traded for Kessel and that is the least of Toronto's worries. The awful Clarkson contract, a paper thin defense and a terrible coach are all bigger problems. I shake my head at all those who say trading Phaneuf is a good idea, he faces some of the toughest competition in the league and will have to do it again with a guy like Roman Polak on the top pairing. Phaneuf would be a decent #2 if they had a proper #1 to pair him with or even someone like Hamhuis or a Hjalmarsson would be a perfect partner for him. He has been miscast in a role as a shutdown defenseman when he is much more effective being the offensive defenseman along with a shutdown partner. Gunarsson was a decent player but he is more of a #4 than a #2 and now they traded him for a #5 lol. Its already a mess there, there is no need to blow up the team. I think they will give the Sabres a good fight for last place in the conference. Because arguably in hindsight, once you stop thinking about all the other contracts and issue since that trade. Knight, Hamilton AND Seguin make Toronto a ridiculously competitive team. 1st line center top 2 D pairing Top 4 D pairing Add in recent picks and that team has serious depth and skill. Instead now they've Phil the Thrill Kessel and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Because arguably in hindsight, once you stop thinking about all the other contracts and issue since that trade. Knight, Hamilton AND Seguin make Toronto a ridiculously competitive team. 1st line center top 2 D pairing Top 4 D pairing Add in recent picks and that team has serious depth and skill. Instead now they've Phil the Thrill Kessel and that's it. Exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Tommi Santala "the best 4th line c in the NHL" Doesn't even last half a season. On top of that trades 2nd 3rd round picks like candy an wonders why the cupboards are bare. Yes, Nonis is that stupid. But trading Kadri and Bozak for Thornton? Com'on now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Because arguably in hindsight, once you stop thinking about all the other contracts and issue since that trade. Knight, Hamilton AND Seguin make Toronto a ridiculously competitive team. 1st line center top 2 D pairing Top 4 D pairing Add in recent picks and that team has serious depth and skill. Instead now they've Phil the Thrill Kessel and that's it. I think Kessel and Sequin are a wash. Those D men are debatable. TO had nothing at the time and needed a star forward. I don't think this was as bad of a trade as people make out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I think Kessel and Sequin are a wash. Those D men are debatable. TO had nothing at the time and needed a star forward. I don't think this was as bad of a trade as people make out to be. Any GM and coach would take Seguin over Kessel in a heartbeat. They were rebuilding at the time and needed great picks and to build a winning environment, not trade them away for a one-dimensional winger looking for max money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robongo Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 How is it the fans fault that Burke traded for Kessel and that is the least of Toronto's worries. The awful Clarkson contract, a paper thin defense and a terrible coach are all bigger problems. I shake my head at all those who say trading Phaneuf is a good idea, he faces some of the toughest competition in the league and will have to do it again with a guy like Roman Polak on the top pairing. Phaneuf would be a decent #2 if they had a proper #1 to pair him with or even someone like Hamhuis or a Hjalmarsson would be a perfect partner for him. He has been miscast in a role as a shutdown defenseman when he is much more effective being the offensive defenseman along with a shutdown partner. Gunarsson was a decent player but he is more of a #4 than a #2 and now they traded him for a #5 lol. Its already a mess there, there is no need to blow up the team. I think they will give the Sabres a good fight for last place in the conference. Well said +1. Phaneuf is criminally underrated by most on here. I think they're going to regret trading Gunnarrson for Polak pretty fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Any GM and coach would take Seguin over Kessel in a heartbeat. They were rebuilding at the time and needed great picks and to build a winning environment, not trade them away for a one-dimensional winger looking for max money. They have been "rebuilding" for a decade. I think Burke actually thought he was going to make them competitive now when he pulled the trade. Also think everyone that goes to TO wants max money. They also have historically overpaid. In regard to Seguin, I think Boston regrets losing him now. He has flourished more so in Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I think Kessel and Sequin are a wash. Those D men are debatable. TO had nothing at the time and needed a star forward. I don't think this was as bad of a trade as people make out to be. You don't rebuild your team with wingers. In hindsight now that bozak is the 1st line center it looks reprehensible. There is no question a move needed to be made, but I stand by what I said when the deal was made. Burke pulled that trigger 1 year to early, and had he waited not 2 months to make that deal Boston would have been desperate or forced to just give Kessel away. All the signs were there for a train wreck season that's for sure. But now Hamilton is under the mentorship of Chara and is trending towards a top 2 D. Seguin is a bonafide star in the league after his first breakout season and is a 1st line C. Knight is trending in the right direction and will find his ceiling as a 1st line C. Ask any analyst and the 2 things you need to build your championship worthy team. top 2 D pairing 1st line center In retrospect now that is the most lopsided trade in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 They have been "rebuilding" for a decade. I think Burke actually thought he was going to make them competitive now when he pulled the trade. Also think everyone that goes to TO wants max money. They also have historically overpaid. In regard to Seguin, I think Boston regrets losing him now. He has flourished more so in Dallas At the time of the trades for Phaneuf and Kessel, they had just lost Sundin to us and the rebuild was on full. I think the idea was for Kessel to become a franchise centerman though. That obviously was a mistake as he was clearly a one-dimensional winger. And now I hear they hope to have Nylander become a franchise center now even though he's clearly a one-dimensional winger as well. I guess they will never learn. Boston got their cup with Seguin, so I guess they have no regrets. Chara's getting older and their core group is starting to fade now. They're following the Canucks. Toronto is there as a pretty good example of what NOT to do. Calgary too. They're outright rebuild denial phase set them back years while they didn't bring in the right help to win either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Because instead of building through the draft. Burke goes to make a big splash, trade away 2 high first round picks to get Kessel. Leaf fans rejoice because its a quick fix. All these trades that Burke and Nonis and a lot of their predecessors do are to try quick fixes to long term problems. Toronto isn't hiring a GM to help draft good players, and build through the draft. They want to show the fans they are addressing the problem right now. That impatience is costing the team dearly. The fans and ownership need to understand you don't build a Cup winner overnight. They need to hire a GM that will do the job correctly, and let him do his job. Because arguably in hindsight, once you stop thinking about all the other contracts and issue since that trade. Knight, Hamilton AND Seguin make Toronto a ridiculously competitive team. 1st line center top 2 D pairing Top 4 D pairing Add in recent picks and that team has serious depth and skill. Instead now they've Phil the Thrill Kessel and that's it. That's not what I meant. I was responding with "why is it the fans fault?". Its silly to think that the fans wanted to make that deal. I see posts like these on CDC occasionally as well "Blame the fans, their impatience is costing the team". If you have a GM that is going to be influenced into making decisions because it is what the "fans" want then you aren't really running a team, you just have a gong show. Burke when he took over Toronto was promised that he would be allowed to build the team his way. So that deal is on him, lets not blame the fans, the mascot, the zamboni guy or other influences. In some cases you do have ownership that interferes but I think that was all Burke, his arrogance and his impatience. Just like I am quite sure that Clarkson was Nonis' idea. Its like saying Edmonton is bad because the fans wanted it that way, the fans will pretty much get behind every move the management makes and will look at it in positive light. Its what makes us fans. I remember the 90s as a Hawks fan and even when things were awful fans still had a tendency to see things through rose colored goggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 At the time of the trades for Phaneuf and Kessel, they had just lost Sundin to us and the rebuild was on full. I think the idea was for Kessel to become a franchise centerman though. That obviously was a mistake as he was clearly a one-dimensional winger. And now I hear they hope to have Nylander become a franchise center now even though he's clearly a one-dimensional winger as well. I guess they will never learn. Boston got their cup with Seguin, so I guess they have no regrets. Chara's getting older and their core group is starting to fade now. They're following the Canucks. Toronto is there as a pretty good example of what NOT to do. Calgary too. They're outright rebuild denial phase set them back years while they didn't bring in the right help to win either. Calgary in all honesty isn't nearly as bad off as most think. They waited 2 seasons to long on Iginla and Kipper but barring 1 bad and 1 horrible season, they were still fighting every game something we don't see from the Leafs. Again, Calgary goes to OT 6 times last season instead of losing outright and they're tied for points with the canucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Calgary in all honesty isn't nearly as bad off as most think. They waited 2 seasons to long on Iginla and Kipper but barring 1 bad and 1 horrible season, they were still fighting every game something we don't see from the Leafs. Again, Calgary goes to OT 6 times last season instead of losing outright and they're tied for points with the canucks Agreed. They're further along their rebuild than we are for sure. I think we're going to be in some tough games this season against them and Edmonton. If the Canucks are going to be in a Calgary-like 'rebuild denial' mode for years... Woof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Agreed. They're further along their rebuild than we are for sure. I think we're going to be in some tough games this season against them and Edmonton. If the Canucks are going to be in a Calgary-like 'rebuild denial' mode for years... Woof. Honestly though I think with the recent draft changes there will be a lot more variance in where teams make their picks. So while I agree that Calgary might be a little further ahead, the Canucks with a little bit of luck and good drafting can easily catch up. I don't think it is necessary for a team to blow it up Buffalo/Calgary style anymore. How well the Canucks do will depend on well Benning manages this team. Its not an easy job and we don't even know for sure how well he will do but with some smart management he can turn the team around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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