[Player Discussion] Stanton

[jdatb]

I liked how he always stuck up for his team mates last year.

I noticed that too and liked it a lot

[Canuck Surfer]

Still crossing my fingers that's Sanguinetti.

Hamhuis, Bieksa

Edler, Sanguinetti

Sbisa, Tanev

Stanton, Weber

That would solve one problem...

Create another as we could only carry 13 forwards.

Danny / Hank / Vrbata

Burr / Bonino / Kassian

Higgins / Vey / Hansen

Mathias / Richardson / Dorsett

Sestito

No room for Jensen, Fox, Horvat or Gaunce to make the roster?

I personally think we have forwards who may be more prepared to crack a roster than Bobby S?

[aGENT]

That would solve one problem...

Create another as we could only carry 13 forwards.

Danny / Hank / Vrbata

Burr / Bonino / Kassian

Higgins / Vey / Hansen

Mathias / Richardson / Dorsett

Sestito

No room for Jensen, Fox, Horvat or Gaunce to make the roster?

I personally think we have forwards who may be more prepared to crack a roster than Bobby S?

There will almost assuredly be a preseason injury. *poof* a spot. That and/or Setito gets waived or if one of the prospects REALLY outshines, somebody gets traded.

Besides, even if say Jensen AND Horvat "make it", my guess would be Jensen (not subject to waivers) gets sent down, Bo gets his at least 9 games and somebody else gets moved making room for Jensen to come back up.

There's plenty of ways to work it.

[Mathew Barzal]

We need more role players and less kinda good at everything types. Stanton is the kind of guy I think is solid everywhere but isn't a difference maker at anything. He isn't a defensive stud, a body checker or an offensive PMD. He's expendable in my eyes.

[Darth Kane]

Great depth defensive who's missed in Chicago.

[DownUndaCanuck]

He played 60 games last year and played them well, put up points and was honestly one of the few Canucks to have a stand-out year. Stanton could be primed for a break-out year, and considering he played well with Bieksa, could creep into our top-4 next year.

We all know Hamhuis will get 20ish minutes, Edler will eat up around 23-25 minutes a game and Tanev will probably be up in the 20-23 minute range, leaving Bieksa, Stanton, Sbisa, Weber and Corrado to fight for bottom-3 minutes.

Obviously Bieksa will fill out the rest of our top-4, leaving Stanton deserves to be on this team full-time next year, bouncing between 20 and 16 minutes a game. The last roster spot will probably be split something like 50 games to Sbisa, 20 to Weber, 10 to Corrado.

Pairings-wise, Stanton was fantastic with Bieksa so I wouldn't mind breaking up Hamhuis-Bieksa for something like this:

Edler (23 minutes) - Tanev (22 minutes)

Bieksa (20 minutes) - Stanton (18 minutes)

Hamhuis (20 minutes) - Sbisa (17 minutes)

Alternatively if we want to maximize chemistry and handedness, we could roll these pairings:

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Bieksa

Sbisa - Weber

Stanton

[Guest Dasein]

Sanguinettit has good underlying numbers and Edler needs an offensive partner to be successful. Sadly, Sanguinetti is likely the closest thing we've got.

Cross your fingers.

Tanev is certainly capable of playing top 4. That doesn't mean that's the best spot for him given the only other player he's shown any real chemistry with is Hamhuis. He's not a #2 guy. And Bieksa (with Hamhuis) plays better there.

Both him and Edler are worse when paired together. Bieksa and Edler are abysmal when paired together.

By process of elimination (and that I think him and Sbisa would make good partners), that leaves him on the third pairing and with minutes fairly evenly spread between the pairings.

Hmm, interesting you say that Edler needs an offensive partner to succeed. I assume you say this because Edler's been at his best when he played with Ehrhoff or Salo. However, it didn't work with Garrison or Bieksa. I think Garrison is too slow and his "offense" is really just his shot (terrible passer, skater, defender), but I'm not sure why Edler can't work with Bieksa - too erratic would be my guess.

I actually think Edler had a different role from when he played with Ehrhoff and Salo. With Ehrhoff, he was the stay-at-home, but with Salo, he was the PMD. So there are different reasons for why Edler worked so well with Ehrhoff and Salo.

With Ehrhoff, he was pretty responsible for a offensive PMD. He could always skate back. He was easy to read - unlike Bieksa. Most importantly, Edler knew his role as the secondary (as you say) and that helped. However, can Sanguinetti be Ehrhoff? Long shot. In that case, he'd have to be the Salo-type partner for Edler.

With Salo, he was too old to be the main guy on the pairing, so Edler became the PMD. He could always rely on Salo to back him up. If being Ehrhoff was a long shot, being Salo is near impossible for Sanguinetti - steady defense is not his calling card.

Tanev won't be an Ehrhoff-type partner for Edler, so can he be like Salo? The only difference between is - the shot.

Tanev doesn't have Salo's shot - and I think that ultimately creates trouble for Edler in the offensive zone. You see, when Edler and Ehrhoff played together, teams couldn't overload on Ehrhoff because they knew Ehrhoff could send the puck to Edler and he could blast it just as good as Ehrhoff. When Edler and Salo played together, even though Edler controlled the play, they knew Salo had the bomb which they had to respect and that gave Edler room to make plays.

With Tanev, however, everyone knows he doesn't have a shot and teams can afford to load up on Edler's side and force a turnover or make him give it to Tanev. Even if Tanev gets the puck, he takes time to load up his wrist shot so they can get back to defend. I think that's where the concern comes in. We know Tanev can defend and be that stay-at-home for Edler - but without that shot, we are a man down in the offensive zone and that puts too much pressure on Edler.

So ideally, we need a guy with Sanguinetti's offense and Tanev's defense. The closest thing we actually have is Weber - and I don't want Weber on our top 4. It's defense that wins games IMO, and so we'll have to live with Tanev's limited offense and put him next to Edler. I don't see Sanguinetti having better offensive skillset than Edler to make him the stay-at-home on the pairing.

[2SKATES1STICK]

Liked his game, physical, reliable he's our Matt Greene. I hope he re-signs after this year, he can step into our top 4 whenever and I think alot of people underrate Stanton because of his limited offence but he's still a good top 4 defenceman.

Lot's of different D-pairings.

Edler - Hamhuis

Sbisa - Bieksa

Stanton - Tanev

Stanton and Tanev can be a shutdown pairing IMO, both are reliable defensively, bring different dimensions defensively aswell. One is physical, one is a positional master.

umm matt greene? absolutely not the same player.

[Plum]

umm matt greene? absolutely not the same player.

Not the best comparison but they're similarities. Physical, fighters, shot blockers, Greene is meaner but slower, Stanton is more mobile though.

[Canuck Surfer]

He played 60 games last year and played them well, put up points and was honestly one of the few Canucks to have a stand-out year. Stanton could be primed for a break-out year, and considering he played well with Bieksa, could creep into our top-4 next year.

We all know Hamhuis will get 20ish minutes, Edler will eat up around 23-25 minutes a game and Tanev will probably be up in the 20-23 minute range, leaving Bieksa, Stanton, Sbisa, Weber and Corrado to fight for bottom-3 minutes.

Obviously Bieksa will fill out the rest of our top-4, leaving Stanton deserves to be on this team full-time next year, bouncing between 20 and 16 minutes a game. The last roster spot will probably be split something like 50 games to Sbisa, 20 to Weber, 10 to Corrado.

Pairings-wise, Stanton was fantastic with Bieksa so I wouldn't mind breaking up Hamhuis-Bieksa for something like this:

Edler (23 minutes) - Tanev (22 minutes)

Bieksa (20 minutes) - Stanton (18 minutes)

Hamhuis (20 minutes) - Sbisa (17 minutes)

Alternatively if we want to maximize chemistry and handedness, we could roll these pairings:

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Bieksa

Sbisa - Weber

Stanton

I recommend you introduce yourself to Dan Hamhuis's profile?

It was Hammer who was the Team Canada gold medallist. Not Tanev or Bieksa who you have slated as grabbing more minutes. Or read the injury file on Edler. Ease him back into the line up before you give him more minutes than our best defender as well...

Last; and its been mentioned before. Position does matter on defence. And you even corrected yourself before I did this post. Bieksa & Tanev are our only 2 core RHS D men. Why in the world you would have swapped him and Stanton onto their wrong sides to play with each other is beyond me.

[Alex Burrows 14]

We need more role players and less kinda good at everything types. Stanton is the kind of guy I think is solid everywhere but isn't a difference maker at anything. He isn't a defensive stud, a body checker or an offensive PMD. He's expendable in my eyes.

Because depth is a horrible thing.

[aGENT]

He played 60 games last year and played them well, put up points and was honestly one of the few Canucks to have a stand-out year. Stanton could be primed for a break-out year, and considering he played well with Bieksa, could creep into our top-4 next year.

We all know Hamhuis will get 20ish minutes, Edler will eat up around 23-25 minutes a game and Tanev will probably be up in the 20-23 minute range, leaving Bieksa, Stanton, Sbisa, Weber and Corrado to fight for bottom-3 minutes.

Obviously Bieksa will fill out the rest of our top-4, leaving Stanton deserves to be on this team full-time next year, bouncing between 20 and 16 minutes a game. The last roster spot will probably be split something like 50 games to Sbisa, 20 to Weber, 10 to Corrado.

Pairings-wise, Stanton was fantastic with Bieksa so I wouldn't mind breaking up Hamhuis-Bieksa for something like this:

Edler (23 minutes) - Tanev (22 minutes)

Bieksa (20 minutes) - Stanton (18 minutes)

Hamhuis (20 minutes) - Sbisa (17 minutes)

Alternatively if we want to maximize chemistry and handedness, we could roll these pairings:

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Bieksa

Sbisa - Weber

Stanton

I see Surfer already covered this but our best d-man and Canadian Olympian Hamhuis will not be playing 3rd pairing or less minutes than anyone else.

Also, as already pointed out Edler and Tanev actually make each other worse players. It's not a good pairing.

Hmm, interesting you say that Edler needs an offensive partner to succeed. I assume you say this because Edler's been at his best when he played with Ehrhoff or Salo. However, it didn't work with Garrison or Bieksa. I think Garrison is too slow and his "offense" is really just his shot (terrible passer, skater, defender), but I'm not sure why Edler can't work with Bieksa - too erratic would be my guess.

I actually think Edler had a different role from when he played with Ehrhoff and Salo. With Ehrhoff, he was the stay-at-home, but with Salo, he was the PMD. So there are different reasons for why Edler worked so well with Ehrhoff and Salo.

With Ehrhoff, he was pretty responsible for a offensive PMD. He could always skate back. He was easy to read - unlike Bieksa. Most importantly, Edler knew his role as the secondary (as you say) and that helped. However, can Sanguinetti be Ehrhoff? Long shot. In that case, he'd have to be the Salo-type partner for Edler.

With Salo, he was too old to be the main guy on the pairing, so Edler became the PMD. He could always rely on Salo to back him up. If being Ehrhoff was a long shot, being Salo is near impossible for Sanguinetti - steady defense is not his calling card.

Tanev won't be an Ehrhoff-type partner for Edler, so can he be like Salo? The only difference between is - the shot.

Tanev doesn't have Salo's shot - and I think that ultimately creates trouble for Edler in the offensive zone. You see, when Edler and Ehrhoff played together, teams couldn't overload on Ehrhoff because they knew Ehrhoff could send the puck to Edler and he could blast it just as good as Ehrhoff. When Edler and Salo played together, even though Edler controlled the play, they knew Salo had the bomb which they had to respect and that gave Edler room to make plays.

With Tanev, however, everyone knows he doesn't have a shot and teams can afford to load up on Edler's side and force a turnover or make him give it to Tanev. Even if Tanev gets the puck, he takes time to load up his wrist shot so they can get back to defend. I think that's where the concern comes in. We know Tanev can defend and be that stay-at-home for Edler - but without that shot, we are a man down in the offensive zone and that puts too much pressure on Edler.

So ideally, we need a guy with Sanguinetti's offense and Tanev's defense. The closest thing we actually have is Weber - and I don't want Weber on our top 4. It's defense that wins games IMO, and so we'll have to live with Tanev's limited offense and put him next to Edler. I don't see Sanguinetti having better offensive skillset than Edler to make him the stay-at-home on the pairing.

I'm actually not sure why the Edler/Bieksa pairing doesn't work. My guess is that they're too similar. Neither knows if their supposed to take the lead or sit back a bit and as you say, Bieksa tends to be a bit erratic so Edler thinks he's leading and all of a sudden Bieksa's in the opposing crease and oh @#$%!. They're both able to provide but not necessarily drive offense. They're both good complimentary offensive players.

No matter, the Bieksa/Hamhuis pairing works very well anyway. I wouldn't mess with that.

As for Garrison, he was basically a poor man's Edler right down to both being LHD. They were damn near clones. I don't wonder at all why that didn't work with any great success particularly with Garrison forced to his wrong side.

I think you under estimate Salo's offensive ability and vision. As calm as he is in his own end, he's more of the same in the offensive zone (and neutral zone) and imminently patient with the puck. He was still leading/driving the offense in that pairing which is why it worked. He didn't have Ehrhoff's creativity or speed but he had better vision, patience (and was far better in his own end). Both were very good passers.

As such I disagree with your assessment that Edler was the PMD or primary offensive driving force with Salo. He's always been his best when he's the secondary partner in an offensive pairing (or in Salo's case a fantastic all around offensive player). Which is precisely why I completely disagree with your assertions about an Edler/Tanev pairing which is also proven by stats (SID, where are you...I'm not researching a post I already know exists ).

Weber might work as well though I'd say Sanguinetti has a higher ceiling if he can get there.

As I said earlier, if it makes you feel better, call it the third pairing

If it helps, call it the 3rd pairing

Hamhuis, Bieksa

Sbisa, Tanev

Edler, Sanguinetti/Weber

*Edit

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

Edler just needs to get it together, a new coach will help.

I would like to see

Hammer/ Tanev The shut down pairing

Edler / Sbisa or Stanton The scoring /hitting pairing

Bieksa /Stanton or Sbisa The hitting / top 5 third pairing in the league

Weber

[LeanBeef]

Hopefully he can become another Johnny Boychuk.

Boychuk was stuck in the AHL for many years before finally getting a chance in the NHL and doing the same thing he did in the AHL.

[yogolol]

He impressed me a lot last year, very Tanev like. Would have him over weber/corridor at this point but I want corrado to be given some more games to see what he can bring

[Robongo]

He impressed me a lot last year, very Tanev like. Would have him over weber/corridor at this point but I want corrado to be given some more games to see what he can bring

He had 6 goals in less than 50 games last year. With the loss off Garrison, we are going to desperately need Weber's shot, especially on the PP.

[Guest Dasein]

Hopefully he can become another Johnny Boychuk.

Boychuk was stuck in the AHL for many years before finally getting a chance in the NHL and doing the same thing he did in the AHL.

Stanton will need to bulk up 20+lbs and develop a heavy slap shot to have Boychuk-esque upside.

[King Heffy]

Problem is, who matches with Edler?

Sauve. If Edler can't learn how to play at an NHL level without a babysitter, he can enjoy his time in Utica.

As for Stanton, he played pretty damn great with Bieksa last year, and brought some much needed toughness to our blueline. He'd better be a fixture in the lineup next season.