[Report] Alex Burrows suspended 3 games

[Senpai]

Meh, deserved 2 games. Does one game really make a difference? Not really, Sestito begging to play, Horvat coming up Sunday.. No big deal at all, no real point in getting raddled up over this...

So some of you, calm down lol

[Baggins]

I thought he would get only 1 game max, but the league is trying to rid head shots, so I guess it's fair.

I suspect he got three because even if it wasn't late it would have been an illegal hit to the head. Head shots typically start at two games. Late + illegal head shot + 4 previous fines = an extra game. That's what I figure is the reasoning.

[viking mama]

It's his first suspension but he's been fined four times. Fines are also disciplinary action.

Pffft! Outing an NHLOA cheat... is hardly a dangerous offense or wreckless play directed at a Union brother.

I'd even argue that Burr ultimately helped the league with that disclosure...& should have been awarded a medal for honesty, integrity & courage. Apples & oranges, people.

They totally mis-represented Burr's current situation by throwing-in his tally of fines, without acknowledging the nature of them.

[laxgoalie]

I suspect he got three because even if it wasn't late it would have been an illegal hit to the head. Head shots typically start at two games. Late + illegal head shot + 4 previous fines = an extra game. That's what I figure is the reasoning.

That makes sense. I trust the league to make the right call, and they did. Hopefully headshots will start being weaved out

[Nessnuck27]

I think it's b.s. How Kreider gets nothing for a far more dangerous play with his hit from behind in Brodin. I'm just sick of the inconsistency with the nhl player safety

[Nessnuck27]

I think it's b.s. How Kreider gets nothing for a far more dangerous play with his hit from behind in Brodin. I'm just sick of the inconsistency with the nhl player safety

[laxgoalie]

I think it's b.s. How Kreider gets nothing for a far more dangerous play with his hit from behind in Brodin. I'm just sick of the inconsistency with the nhl player safety

I hate Kreider (after what he did to Price), but it's two different hits. One's a head shot, one's a check from behind.

[Baggins]

If this was any other player in the NHL, it would have gone completely unnoticed. The suspension just doesn't make sense.

1 - Primary contact was Emelin's chest, his head definately wasn't targetted and barely contacted. It snapped back because he was unbalanced, not because Burrows targetted his head.

2 - Player missed a couple of shifts but wasn't injured.

It definately was a tad late, but that's it. If it wasn't called interference on the play it shouldn't be deemed suspendable for that reason. They pinned Burrows for a "hit to the head" which is an absolute joke. Burrows clearly glances Emelin's chest area first and his head is glanced because he's in poor position. If people start getting suspended for incidental head checks because the victim was unsuspecting, this game's going to get a lot softer. The victim has to be accountable as well as the hitter.

You should watch the suspension video with the front view of the hit.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T49Nb0PWtc&list=PL1NbHSfosBuG3y72SAdlnoXidgdWeb6pG&index=1

The lack of a penalty call has nothing do to with a suspension being handed out. Any illegal play can be reviewed by the safety committee whether a penalty is called or not. Even the league knows refs don't always get a call right.

I suspect your tune would be completely different had this same hit occurred on a Canuck.

[elvis15]

Not a hearing, a phonecall, silence! Yet Andrew Alberts is all but finished. Elder last season getting suspended when no contact was made on Hertl, I really have a problem with this kangaroo court system the NHL has in place. Keith got 4 games for leading with the elbow, and Daniel wasn't the same player for over a year. Burrows get three and the guy returns in the same period. These suspensions are all over the map and I'm convinced a lot of lobbying goes into the sentences by the teams affected. Whether its the media, opposing coaches, or GM's. This isn't working Gary.

Heads up, but your bias is showing.

I will add that I think the length of suspensions has been pretty questionable, but generally illegal hits to the head have been called pretty standard when comparing them to the rule I posted above.

I hate Kreider (after what he did to Price), but it's two different hits. One's a head shot, one's a check from behind.

And the consistency on other calls is getting better, but not perfect at all. I've only really been able to defend the consistency of the illegal check to the head rule.

[timberz21]

Camera from the front seems like a clear headshot, with head first point of contact

Camera from the back seems like he hits the shoulder first and then follow up by hitting the head.

Camera from the top seems like he hit head and shoulder simultaneously.

Hard to tell. But Emelin was in a vulnerable position and still Burrows follow through. I'm ok with three as long as they are consistent and similar offense are punish the same. However, I'm happy that we hopefully see Jensen on 2nd duty (even though I think Vey moves up to 2nd line and Horvat takes 4C without scratching anyone).

[elvis15]

Well that was expected time to call up a young guy, if we dress sestito say goodbye to the win column.

Maybe it's a good time to point out that Burrows being suspended doesn't free up a roster spot. With Horvat on the conditioning stint and about to come back as well, it'll be tough to bring anyone else in to avoid having Sestito play.

I've like to see a top 6 prospect come up as well to fill in, but we may have to make do with bumping people up the roster a bit.

[poetica]

...

Emelin caused it? It's not like Burrows was going to miss him completely and suddenly Emelin stuck his head out like an orange on a toothpick and Burrows couldn't avoid it. Burrows lined up poorly on the hit and when Emelin straightened up Burrows was no where near hitting squarely through the body.

If you have other examples, I'd be happy to compare them using the rules as defined by the NHL.

After seeing the suspension video's better angle of the hit I actually do agree with the suspension, albeit reluctantly. While I don't believe Burrows intended head contact, the hit did result in head contact. Even if it was unintentional it, like almost all head hits, probably needs to be a suspension if only to make all players sufficiently mindful at all times of possibly contacting the head of anyone they're hitting, intentionally or not. Player safety has to come first and if that means players need to change how they hit people to reduce the number of head hits, so be it. The only way that can happen, however, is if the NHL is consistent in their punishment of head hits and they just aren't.

That being said, I think you missed the point I believe Tearloch7 was trying to make. While Burrows' hit may have been late, the head contact, either entirely or as the principal point of contact, was very likely only because Emelin stops a fraction of a second before the hit. Had he maintained speed it would have very likely been a shoulder to shoulder hit with incidental or no head contact. In the suspension video, even the NHL agreed that Emelin is stopping when he's hit. They just choose to disregard that as a significant factor contributing to the head contact despite the NHL rulebook requiring them to consider, "Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his head or body immediately prior to or simultaneous with the hit in a way that significantly contributed to the head contact." It seems pretty clear that someone stopping immediately prior to a hit would significantly change the position of their body and yet the NHL determined that it didn't matter. That decision alone, however, takes this hit from what they would likely otherwise deem merely a missed 2-minute call to a 3-game suspension and the NHL making judgement calls like that which can be so easily influenced by outside factors makes me uncomfortable.

[dbark95]

Haven't seen the Kreider hit yet, but did see the Gryba one and would have liked to see him hit more squarely through the body. He at least hits the body though, where Burrows makes hardly any body contact coming across the front of Emelin.

Emelin caused it? It's not like Burrows was going to miss him completely and suddenly Emelin stuck his head out like an orange on a toothpick and Burrows couldn't avoid it. Burrows lined up poorly on the hit and when Emelin straightened up Burrows was no where near hitting squarely through the body.

If you have other examples, I'd be happy to compare them using the rules as defined by the NHL.

He was about to hit shoulder to shoulder and coming in on an angle as emily turned her left foot inward to stop. The slowing down meant Burrows went past her shoulder and hit her pretty face.

[dbark95]

After seeing the suspension video's better angle of the hit I actually do agree with the suspension, albeit reluctantly. While I don't believe Burrows intended head contact, the hit did result in head contact. Even if it was unintentional it, like almost all head hits, probably needs to be a suspension if only to make all players sufficiently mindful at all times of possibly contacting the head of anyone they're hitting, intentionally or not. Player safety has to come first and if that means players need to change how they hit people to reduce the number of head hits, so be it. The only way that can happen, however, is if the NHL is consistent in their punishment of head hits and they just aren't.

That being said, I think you missed the point I believe Tearloch7 was trying to make. While Burrows' hit may have been late, the head contact, either entirely or as the principal point of contact, was very likely only because Emelin stops a fraction of a second before the hit. Had he maintained speed it would have very likely been a shoulder to shoulder hit with incidental or no head contact. In the suspension video, even the NHL agreed that Emelin is stopping when he's hit. They just choose to disregard that as a significant factor contributing to the head contact despite the NHL rulebook requiring them to consider, "Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his head or body immediately prior to or simultaneous with the hit in a way that significantly contributed to the head contact." It seems pretty clear that someone stopping immediately prior to a hit would significantly change the position of their body and yet the NHL determined that it didn't matter. That decision alone, however, takes this hit from what they would likely otherwise deem merely a missed 2-minute call to a 3-game suspension and the NHL making judgement calls like that which can be so easily influenced by outside factors makes me uncomfortable.

Then this could happen on ANY and ALL hits.

If the hit was 0.4 seconds to late and its hard enough to determine that 0.4 seconds while moving at high speeds on the play, how are you going to react when someone begins to stop 0.1 seconds before the hit?

We're gonna have basketball on ice within three seasons if this keeps up.

[Master Mind]

3 games for Burrows is fair when judging on this play alone. It was a dumb hit on his part, there was no reason to do it.

The only problem as I'm sure many have mentioned is that worse hits are going unpunished. Or we could also just compare a recent suspension in John Moore, who got 5 games for a more dangerous hit, and by a repeat offender. If they want to make 3 games a standard for head shots, that's fine, but a repeat offender should get at least double that if he's to be suspended.

This is clearly just based on the player, and which team he plays for. If only the league would ever show some consistency.

[poetica]

Then this could happen on ANY and ALL hits.

If the hit was 0.4 seconds to late and its hard enough to determine that 0.4 seconds while moving at high speeds on the play, how are you going to react when someone begins to stop 0.1 seconds before the hit?

We're gonna have basketball on ice within three seasons if this keeps up.

That was kind of my point. Burrows didn't have time to react to Emelin stopping and according to the NHL's rules that should have meant it wasn't an illegal head hit.

My point about the suspension (that I perhaps didn't make clearly enough) was that they need to change the rules and/or their interpretation of them to put a larger onus on players to go even further out of their way to avoid head contact. Personally, I'm fine with telling players that they should make sure they maintain a lowered body position so that even if they end up hitting just off center the head will not be targeted, even if unintentionally. Of course, a player leaning over at the last minute would not be reason for a suspension, but baring changes in the height of the head I do think we can ask players to consider the other possible things, like stopping, that could result in head contact.That, of course, is only fair to do BEFORE hits take place, not after. At the very least, they need to make every effort to create and maintain the same standard from this point forward. If they do, I'm cool with it. Otherwise, it will remain unfair for some players to be suspended for unavoidable contact but not others.

[Baggins]

After seeing the suspension video's better angle of the hit I actually do agree with the suspension, albeit reluctantly. While I don't believe Burrows intended head contact, the hit did result in head contact. Even if it was unintentional it, like almost all head hits, probably needs to be a suspension if only to make all players sufficiently mindful at all times of possibly contacting the head of anyone they're hitting, intentionally or not. Player safety has to come first and if that means players need to change how they hit people to reduce the number of head hits, so be it. The only way that can happen, however, is if the NHL is consistent in their punishment of head hits and they just aren't.

That being said, I think you missed the point I believe Tearloch7 was trying to make. While Burrows' hit may have been late, the head contact, either entirely or as the principal point of contact, was very likely only because Emelin stops a fraction of a second before the hit. Had he maintained speed it would have very likely been a shoulder to shoulder hit with incidental or no head contact. In the suspension video, even the NHL agreed that Emelin is stopping when he's hit. They just choose to disregard that as a significant factor contributing to the head contact despite the NHL rulebook requiring them to consider, "Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his head or body immediately prior to or simultaneous with the hit in a way that significantly contributed to the head contact." It seems pretty clear that someone stopping immediately prior to a hit would significantly change the position of their body and yet the NHL determined that it didn't matter. That decision alone, however, takes this hit from what they would likely otherwise deem merely a missed 2-minute call to a 3-game suspension and the NHL making judgement calls like that which can be so easily influenced by outside factors makes me uncomfortable.

He also noted that although Emelin changed his body position Burrows changed his to follow it. I do think Burrows was trying to maintain his line on Emelins shoulder but simply missed. It doesn't change the fact that, as pointed out in the video, the hit simply shouldn't have happened as it was late and Burrows had time to avoid contact completely.

[Salmonberries]

I think it's b.s. How Kreider gets nothing for a far more dangerous play with his hit from behind in Brodin. I'm just sick of the inconsistency with the nhl player safety

Bingo. The media reaction to the reckless Kreider hit was apologetic. They had the pitchforks out for Burrows in seconds. Jamie MacLennan, John Shannon and Doug MacLean stumped particularly hard for a stiff suspension to Burrows. At the same time, some of these same talking heads were leading Kreider apologists. The bias is rather stark; it's impossible to miss. And it's what we're up against, unfortunately. The best thing we can do is to accept the reality and to speak openly about wherever we go.

[shiznak]

I hope Horvat takes his spot, and not Kassian.

Move Higgins to the right side, and Horvat can play LW/C.

[elvis15]

Rather than getting caught up too much in the conspiracy theories (which are so, so tempting!), maybe we, along with fans of other teams, should come up with a list of real suggestions for the NHL on how they can better communicate their disciplinary rules and practices to fans and send it to them.

My suggestions would be that they add a tenth of a second clock to real time videos of hits to determine whether or not they are late. I would also add that the NHL needs to tell us how late is "late" AND at what point "late" becomes suspendable entirely on its own (like the Rome hit).

I'm all for the first part, but they can determine time by counting the number of frames based on the speed of the film. As far as the determination of late, I know there's the cutoff, but I can't think of any that are 1/10th of a second over the limit they are calling harshly.