Kassian for Hodgson now ?

[ice orca]

An interesting take.

Yes, I was blaming AV/MG as much as Hodgson for the trade. It hadn't occurred to me that Canucks decided on the trade and made up the minutes controversy.

I'd originally written that maybe Buffalo and Vcr lost the trade, then changed it before posting.

There is 2 sides to the Hodson injury debate. Another poster has told it here time and time again about the Canucks and Hodgsons camp both misdiagnosing his back. For all the posters saying if he stayed he would be our 2nd line center first he would have to go through contract negotiations. I'm pretty sure the Canucks would have not given him the 4+ and there would be a fight with his old man and his agent.. his 3rd agent btw. Also i always wondered how he would fit under Torts as coach, probably fit his ass on pine he would be a perfect fit in the doghouse. If he made it through the former regime do you think he would be a Benning kind of player? I watched the Buffalo/ Coil game last night and he was hardly out there and looked like didn't care if he was. The fact is Cody wanted 2nd line time or out, Kass as ecstatic to be traded to the Canucks. Who would you rather have right now in this division?

[Tearloch7]

Hodgson in on his way to the Swiss League via Carolina or Toronto .. he looked like a pouty brat in that game last night .. almost like he was waiting for someone to go get him the puck and give it to him, so he could 'play with the other kids' .. skills, with no work ethic nor defensive comprehension, gets you a career like Kyle Wellwood

[Canucks Curse]

I think what some people fail to understand with Cody is how he would have developed had he stayed with the Canucks.It is not uncommon for players to florish on one team and stink it up on another. While Cody got his wish for more ice time by getting traded, it has ultimately stunted his development. This is on him.

This.

Surrounded by good players and sheltered, he scored some impressive goals and was not a defensive liability, he looked like any day he would be top 6

A line if Kesler- Hodgson- booth would have been interesting with Kes taking face offs, but alas Cody's whining got in the way.

[grumpworsley]

I remember Bieksa and Luongo talking about his "Big Head"

I thought it a strange comment (I know he actually has a big head) but knowing a little more about Coho now. I would say

it was more about his ego.

This was the blog by Kevin Woodley reporting on that interview

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=7096

"Coldy Hodgson may receive a warm welcome back to Vancouver from the fans that quickly warmed to him during this Rookie of the Year candidate season. His ex-Canucks teammates weren’t so kind.

With all the hype on Hodgson and Zack Kassian playing their former teams just five days after the promising former first-round picks were swapped for each other as part of a four-player deal at the NHL Trade Deadline, the best material after the morning skate came from the rest of the Canucks, who were having a good time with Hodgson’s quick return as a Buffalo Sabre – not to mention his large head and fashion sense.

“Slow feet, big head,” joked defenseman Kevin Bieksa when asked if he had a scouting report on facing Hodgson. “No, he’s a good player. … I feel we put a lot of time into him this year and he’s in a lot better place now than he was at the beginning of the year. He’s dressing a lot better now.”

Vancouver goaltender Roberto Loungo was asked about facing Ryan Miller at Rogers Arena for the first time since the 2010 Olympic gold-medal game.

“I’m a bit more worried about their superstar, Cody,” Luongo said, before delivering his own scouting report in a perfect deadpan. “He’s got a huge head. Apart from that, he’s very skilled, good vision, quick release.”

Hodgson was able to laugh off jokes he probably knew were coming.

“They like to make fun of me for that,” Hodgson, who is known for his smarts on the ice, said of his head size. “Hopefully I put it to good use tonight.”

As for Kassian, he admitted there is extra motivation playing the Sabres.

“Definitely I feel I have something to prove to the Sabres and to Vancouver,” he said. “As a young player in this League you have to make a name for yourself and being traded away from Buffalo I want to play well and show them what I could have been and I want to show Vancouver they didn’t make a mistake.”

That includes being physical – even against ex-teammates and good friends – something Kassian said he wouldn’t hesitate to do Saturday night.

“Once the game is over you go back to being friends,” he said.

The same goes for Hodgson’s ex-teammates.

“Once the puck drops there’s no friends out there,” Bieksa said. “I don’t know if you’ll see a couple guys take a run at Cody or not, but it will be all in good fun.”

It may just hurt a little more than the jokes about head size and shirt choice."

[Hairy Kneel]

we could have used Hodgsons scoring more in the playoffs following the trade and as long as its taken Kass to develop I can't really say there's clear winner per se, but going forward who know's neither is a top 6 player but there's still time.

That being said I hope Kass can make it back for the Ducks game at least.

[Baggins]

Hodgson got a back injury. The Canucks' doctors didn't find the injury, AV lost patience and suggested Hodgson was a malingerer, and Hodgson ended up at odds with his team management and coaching staff, the injury eventually being found by a doctor Hodgson went to for a third opinion. Hodgson lost most of the 2009-10 season to injury.

Not accurate. The Canucks medical staff did in fact find a bulging disc. He wasn`t misdiagnosed at all. Nor was he called a malingerer. Liar would have been the better description. Here`s how it went....

1 - Canucks medical staff diagnosed Cody with a bulging disc.

2 - Attended camp and Cody said back was fine. A lie.

3 - Preseason Cody said back wasn`t a problem at all. A lie.

4 - Wasn`t very good in preseason but was kept to the bitter end.

5 - Cut from team. Now he says to reporters the back is still a problem.

6 - AV is asked about Cody`s complaint about his back and now has two choices considering Cody maintained all along his back was fine. He lied or is making an excuse for being cut. AV went with, `It sounds like he`s making an excuse`. Probably better than saying if his back is still a problem Cody lied to us for the past six weeks.

7 - Cody returns home to see his personal doctor who diagnosed him with a bulging disc.

8 - Cody returns to his junior team whose medical staff diagnosed him with a bulging disc.

9 - Cody then goes to a leading US back specialist who also diagnoses *surprise* a bulging disc.

10 - Returns to Vancouver the following off-season still having back problems. Canucks medical staff find a muscle tear that is aggravating the disc.

11 - Muscle tear is repaired and Cody back problem is solved.

Had Cody been honest about his back still being a problem in the first place, perhaps the Canucks medical staff would have looked beyond the bulging disc much sooner. Instead he lied hoping to make the team and collect that big NHL salary. He then went from doctor to doctor who all found the same bulging disc and none of them looking beyond the obvious injury. His lie cost him a year. That`s on Hodgson.

You`re right about Cody being better served returning to junior and spending time in the AHL to improve his overall game. The problem was Hodgson wanted to be collecting that NHL salary, as several of his draft peers were doing, and his father and agent hounded management to get him on the team. Once there it was hounding for for ice time. Several of the guys drafted ahead of him had already signed big money extensions by the time Hodgson was starting his first full NHL season. Ready or not he wanted to be collecting the NHL money and the more ice time he got meant a better chance a bigger second contract. Money, money, money.

A red flag on Hodgson was his firing three agents before ever playing an NHL game until he found one willing to hound management on his behalf. He`s all about the money. This was abundantly evident with him holding out until mid-September to re-sign with Buffalo. Considering how many of our players have taken less because they want to be here I`m glad money boy is gone. I`d rather have players who are team first, money second.

[Drewismyname]

Arguments based in reality? We all loved luongo even with his poor starts, but he played for the canucks. Cody was traded because the second line spot was keslers.... But we hate kesler, but we also trash cody.

Hmmmm im not sure how to rationalize any of this further than a bunch of typical canucks fans blindly being canucks fans giving those of us with level heads a bad name

[Baggins]

we could have used Hodgsons scoring more in the playoffs following the trade and as long as its taken Kass to develop I can't really say there's clear winner per se, but going forward who know's neither is a top 6 player but there's still time.

That being said I hope Kass can make it back for the Ducks game at least.

I highly doubt Hodgson would have made any difference to our playoff fate. Scoring in playoffs tends to be more difficult than regular season. Hodson averaged one goal per five games for us during the regular season. Would his one goal made a difference in those five games? Well Pahlsson, Cody`s replacement, scored one goal. Add in that Pahlssion was a defensive specialist, Cody`s weakness, and I really don`t see how Cody could have made a difference in the outcome.

Sometimes you have to make a deal when the type of player you want becomes available. Buffalo was a few points out of a playoff spot and in need of a center for a playoff push. They made Kassian available. The type of player MG wanted for Hodgson. Buffalo wasn`t going to give up a chance at the playoffs to wait until the off-season to made a deal.

[Baggins]

Arguments based in reality? We all loved luongo even with his poor starts, but he played for the canucks. Cody was traded because the second line spot was keslers.... But we hate kesler, but we also trash cody.

Hmmmm im not sure how to rationalize any of this further than a bunch of typical canucks fans blindly being canucks fans giving those of us with level heads a bad name

Many fans hate Kesler `now` because he demanded a trade. At the time Hodgson was traded Kelser wan`t just head and shoulders better, he was a fan favorite that many believed should be captain.

I don`t hate Kesler at all. I still think he`s a quality player and appreciate his time here. As much as I also appreciate loyalty to team, I can understand a player chasing his dream of hoisting the cup. I have no ill will towards Kesler at all and hope he gets to hoist the cup as long as it`s not at the Canucks playoff expense.

[Drewismyname]

they both demanded a trade. Cody obviously lost the poker hand but i more feel sorry for the kid than anything having some dickhead father in his business past the age where that should happen.

I hope he has a legthy career with the sabers and im behind him. He showed a lot of skill at clutch moments. If he or his camp accepted a third line role with the nucks id pick bim over kassian anyday it was the unreal expectations and those who cast them that led him to where he is now and it sucks.

[ilduce39]

“Slow feet, big head,” joked defenseman Kevin Bieksa when asked if he had a scouting report on facing Hodgson. “No, he’s a good player. … I feel we put a lot of time into him this year and he’s in a lot better place now than he was at the beginning of the year. He’s dressing a lot better now.”

Vancouver goaltender Roberto Loungo was asked about facing Ryan Miller at Rogers Arena for the first time since the 2010 Olympic gold-medal game.

“I’m a bit more worried about their superstar, Cody,” Luongo said, before delivering his own scouting report in a perfect deadpan. “He’s got a huge head. Apart from that, he’s very skilled, good vision, quick release.”

That's fantastic.

[ilduce39]

Trade didn't make sense at the time in the sense that we were in a "win right now" mindset and Kassian was a project.. that being said, what's not to like about Kass? If he can just learn to suck up to the coaches he's top-6 material... and even in the bottom-6 he's driving the 3rd line for 2 years now.

[Gollumpus]

Not accurate. The Canucks medical staff did in fact find a bulging disc. He wasn`t misdiagnosed at all. Nor was he called a malingerer. Liar would have been the better description. Here`s how it went....

1 - Canucks medical staff diagnosed Cody with a bulging disc.

2 - Attended camp and Cody said back was fine. A lie.

3 - Preseason Cody said back wasn`t a problem at all. A lie.

4 - Wasn`t very good in preseason but was kept to the bitter end.

5 - Cut from team. Now he says to reporters the back is still a problem.

6 - AV is asked about Cody`s complaint about his back and now has two choices considering Cody maintained all along his back was fine. He lied or is making an excuse for being cut. AV went with, `It sounds like he`s making an excuse`. Probably better than saying if his back is still a problem Cody lied to us for the past six weeks.

7 - Cody returns home to see his personal doctor who diagnosed him with a bulging disc.

8 - Cody returns to his junior team whose medical staff diagnosed him with a bulging disc.

9 - Cody then goes to a leading US back specialist who also diagnoses *surprise* a bulging disc.

10 - Returns to Vancouver the following off-season still having back problems. Canucks medical staff find a muscle tear that is aggravating the disc.

11 - Muscle tear is repaired and Cody back problem is solved.

Had Cody been honest about his back still being a problem in the first place, perhaps the Canucks medical staff would have looked beyond the bulging disc much sooner. Instead he lied hoping to make the team and collect that big NHL salary. He then went from doctor to doctor who all found the same bulging disc and none of them looking beyond the obvious injury. His lie cost him a year. That`s on Hodgson.

You`re right about Cody being better served returning to junior and spending time in the AHL to improve his overall game. The problem was Hodgson wanted to be collecting that NHL salary, as several of his draft peers were doing, and his father and agent hounded management to get him on the team. Once there it was hounding for for ice time. Several of the guys drafted ahead of him had already signed big money extensions by the time Hodgson was starting his first full NHL season. Ready or not he wanted to be collecting the NHL money and the more ice time he got meant a better chance a bigger second contract. Money, money, money.

A red flag on Hodgson was his firing three agents before ever playing an NHL game until he found one willing to hound management on his behalf. He`s all about the money. This was abundantly evident with him holding out until mid-September to re-sign with Buffalo. Considering how many of our players have taken less because they want to be here I`m glad money boy is gone. I`d rather have players who are team first, money second.

Thankyou for this. I was dreading that I might have to type out something.

This is pretty much how I recall events unfolded. There may have been a few poorly chosen comments from team management and coaches which didn't help the situation, but by and large the situation with Hodgson went south mostly because of Hodgson.

regards,

G.

[nuck nit]

What Gillis revealed today is that this further testing in April 2010 determined that Hodgson’s back pain wasn’t due to the disc issue but rather from a torn muscle.

This revelation by Gillis might put to rest part of the great Hodgson debate in Vancouver, but it does raise other questions.

How did this important injury to the Canucks' top prospect go misdiagnosed by multiple sets of specialists over a 10 month period?

Will Coach Vigneault apologize for his undiplomatic and characteristically blunt comments on Hodgson, now that the truth is known?

Will stories still continue to circulate about Hodgson having a problem with the Canucks organization?

Who knows?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/456093-cody-hodgson-mystery-back-injury-definitively-diagnosed

A little CDC revisionist history by the above posters does not help matters any.

Then again,haters gonna hate.

[Jack Fig]

The bottom line is that two young men are both light years away from playing to their potential and that's disappointing, regardless of who they play for.

[Gollumpus]

What Gillis revealed today is that this further testing in April 2010 determined that Hodgson’s back pain wasn’t due to the disc issue but rather from a torn muscle.

This revelation by Gillis might put to rest part of the great Hodgson debate in Vancouver, but it does raise other questions.

How did this important injury to the Canucks' top prospect go misdiagnosed by multiple sets of specialists over a 10 month period?

Will Coach Vigneault apologize for his undiplomatic and characteristically blunt comments on Hodgson, now that the truth is known?

Will stories still continue to circulate about Hodgson having a problem with the Canucks organization?

Who knows?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/456093-cody-hodgson-mystery-back-injury-definitively-diagnosed

A little CDC revisionist history by the above posters does not help matters any.

Then again,haters gonna hate.

I figure that the reason it went undiagnosed for so long was due in large part to Hodgson not speaking up about the problem as much as he should.

Another factor in this injury being missed by several doctors probably has to do with the location which was right under (or near) the disc injury. The player's doctor discovers the disc problem (but not the tear) and reports that to the concerned parties. The team doctor looks at the player and concurs with the initial diagnosis. The muscle tear is small and goes unobserved. Any pain/inflammation in the area would likely be considered to be associated with the disc problem. The player gets treatment for the disc problem and goes for re-hab and training. He reports no further problems with the back injury. The doctors take another look and note the disc injury has healed, and that the player reports no further problems. Since the player reports no issues then there is no reason for them to dig deeper for a problem that "isn't there".

If you are the Canucks' GM, and the player's doctor says that he had a disc injury but it's all better now, and your team doctor agrees with the player's doctor that the disc problem is better, and the player himself says that there isn't a problem, then everything should be okay, right?

Except, after a number of months of re-hab and training, and then not making the team after training camp, only then does the player say that his back is still an issue. So, more time is wasted while additional medical tests are done, and Canuck doctors (as I recall it) discover it and the player gets treatment to correct the problem.

Hodgson speaks up sooner and maybe this plays out differently.

regards,

G.

[Baggins]

I figure that the reason it went undiagnosed for so long was due in large part to Hodgson not speaking up about the problem as much as he should.

Another factor in this injury being missed by several doctors probably has to do with the location which was right under (or near) the disc injury. The player's doctor discovers the disc problem (but not the tear) and reports that to the concerned parties. The team doctor looks at the player and concurs with the initial diagnosis. The muscle tear is small and goes unobserved. Any pain/inflammation in the area would likely be considered to be associated with the disc problem. The player gets treatment for the disc problem and goes for re-hab and training. He reports no further problems with the back injury. The doctors take another look and note the disc injury has healed, and that the player reports no further problems. Since the player reports no issues then there is no reason for them to dig deeper for a problem that "isn't there".

If you are the Canucks' GM, and the player's doctor says that he had a disc injury but it's all better now, and your team doctor agrees with the player's doctor that the disc problem is better, and the player himself says that there isn't a problem, then everything should be okay, right?

Except, after a number of months of re-hab and training, and then not making the team after training camp, only then does the player say that his back is still an issue. So, more time is wasted while additional medical tests are done, and Canuck doctors (as I recall it) discover it and the player gets treatment to correct the problem.

Hodgson speaks up sooner and maybe this plays out differently.

regards,

G.

He had well over a million rea$on$ to be le$$ than honest about the back $till being an i$$ue.

[BenDrinkin]

Hodgson? No thanks.

Kesler? No thanks.

We traded these guys for a reason, and got great players in return. How about we just move on (finally).

[higgyfan]

Cody's greatest mistake was over estimating his skill level (imo, he thought he was in the same league as his buddies; Stamkos, Taveres, Duchene and Eberle). This idea may have been driven by his father and agent, but the end result was the trade to Buffalo.

Right now, Buf is not a good team for a young prospect to develop; especially defensive skills. He started off with linemates that could contribute to his offensive results, but the team traded those player and is in full rebuild now. This is a team that only has 19 goals so far this year, so it isn't just Cody that is struggling. The Buf dressing room must be one pathetic place right now.

The winner in this trade is actually Zack. I can't imagine where he would be in that mess in Buf. Van has taken a patient approach with his development and it's starting to look like it is paying off.

I also believe that if Cody had stayed with Van, he would have developed into a more complete player and maybe even taken on Kes' role. With no opportunity to develop his game effectively, I don't know where he'll end up now,

[DownUndaCanuck]

If we had kept Hodgson he'd probably be our 2nd line center by now, scoring 50-60 points and 20-30 goals. The way he was developing here in Vancouver was amazingly, he was scoring clutch goals in his first season and was on pace for 20 goals. If the Canucks had kept him, groomed him and developed him for another year he'd definately be a premium 2C in the NHL right now and would have replaced some of Henrik's and Kesler's minutes.

Keep in mind that Buffalo ruined Hodgson's career. They threw him up on their first line, exposed him too early to other teams top pairings and he was thrashed around and couldn't score. Hodgson needed to be eased into the NHL the way we were doing it and Buffalo destroyed his development which is why he's a 30-40 point player right now at best.

He was our undoubted 3rd line center when we traded him and saw no more than 15 minutes a night. The following year he probably would have been our 3rd line center the entire season, but by now he'd be our 2C pushing for first line minutes. With that commodity, we could have traded Kesler for Lindholm or Vaatanen (apparently the Ducks were close to giving us Vaatanen instead of Sbisa if he didn't want to stay in Anaheim).

Kesler for Lindholm and a 1st (instead of Bonino + Sbisa + 1st) seems pretty fair and works well for both teams. No doubt Bonino is a great player now, but I'd rather have Hodgson + Lindholm than Bonino + Sbisa + Kassian. Our defence is lacking any offensive production, Hamhuis and Bieksa are looking old and Lindholm would fit perfectly into our future D core.

Sedin - Sedin - Vbrata

Higgins - Hodgson - Burrows

Hansen - Richardson - Vey

Matthias - Horvat - Dorsett

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Lindholm

Stanton - Bieksa

Weber/Corrado