[Extension] - Johnny Boychuk with the Islanders (7 yrs, $42M)

[Monty]

Has Tanev's agent even started negotiations? Any idea what the agent is asking for?

I don't want to lose him but if he asks for the moon could we get a 1st rounder before the draft?

Or trade him to Edmonton for Darnell Nurse?

Tanev isn't going to get Darnell Nurse.

[oldnews]

You can look at this - as you can anything really - in a number of different ways.

One way is to see it as a reasonable investment in a stable fixture for their blueline long-term, enabled by a wealth of youth in their system.

Another way is to see this as a potential hindrance to them in the not so distant future - to a player who hasn't necessarily earned that kind of term over a long enough sample of performance, and whose age is another limitiing factor.

I personally would not have been willing to go to that extent of term with Boychuk - and guys like Reinhart, Pulock etc would factor into that. Of course Snow considered that, but this is Boychuk in his prime, and a few things about the context of his play this year would make me hesitate to lock him up at long, top pairing terms.

First, Hamonic, DeHaan and even Leddy all play harder 5 on 5 minutes than Boychuk - all three of them face higher quality of competition, all three of them play bigger minutes, all three of them have lower offensive zone starts, all three of them give up lesser territory in terms of the differential between ozone starts and finishes. When you look at his boost in production this year - I take it with a grain of salt given the depth and the makeup of their forward group. He is a big part of that equation, but he's a complementary part imo, not necessarily at the center of driving possession and production.

He has a good balance of attributes that he brings - no doubt about that - but that is a contract I'd hesitate to offer anyone, and Boychuk just does not stand out enough imo to command it.

If the Isles did not have such a wealth of D assets already, I think it may make more sense - and they can supplement the impact of this contract in the first part of the term with very talented young ELCs/RFAs, but to me, Boychuk is one of those players who has benefitted from a reciprocal relationship - his value has been boosted significantly imo by the context he is playing in - I probably would have leveraged that fact and refused to go as far as the Isles, perhaps calling his bluff somewhat if he refused to compromise on the term.

Hamonic, DeHaan, Leddy, Strait, Hickey, Donovan, Reinhart, Pulock, Mayfield, Pelech would give me a little comfort in that negotiation. Of course, you want Boychuk in that group, but by year 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.... who knows. I don't like the fact that teams continue to cave to these kind of terms - I look at guys like Daniel, Henrik, Edler, Hamhuis - and they never demanded/enjoyed a term like that in their careers. I think a team like the Isles has the kind of foundation in place now that they might also leverage that with a player like Boychuk and expect him to work with them to some extent. As I see it, I don't see compromise on the part of Boychuk in that deal - I see a deal that I'd liken to a number agreed to in places like Minnesota or Toronto that I do not like and would not agree to. Boychuk is good, but just not good enough to command that.

You can look at it as though the Canucks are fortunate, etc, and an exception, whereas this is the cost of doing business, or you can look at it as a model for building a sustainable, long term competitive club. I think it's a matter of disciplined management and drawing a line that you don't do business that way. The exceptions imo were for the former CBAs and perhaps for the odd franchise player type.. But for a player in this range, I think you need to risk letting the odd Christian Ehrhoff walk away (and get bought out elsewhere) in order to maintain an overall integrity. They may have a few years of grace, but what are the Islanders now committed to when that wealth of talent they have are re-upping?

[Tangelos]

Oh man that's terrible

[CBH1926]

Lot of money

[MoneypuckOverlord]

a little over paid for a guy that only had 1 breakout season.

his stats are impressive this year, and it's on pace for a 43 point season, but lets be honest, he's a stay at home Category defencemen (Willie Mitchell, Regher, Tanev) type of dman. Very expensive.

Boychuk just raised the going rate for stay at home dmans. Or can I say Garth Snow.

[Guest Dasein]

a little over paid for a guy that only had 1 breakout season.

his stats are impressive this year, and it's on pace for a 43 point season, but lets be honest, he's a stay at home Category defencemen (Willie Mitchell, Regher, Tanev) type of dman. Very expensive.

Boychuk just raised the going rate for stay at home dmans. Or can I say Garth Snow.

Boychuk has one of the hardest shots in the NHL and he can get it through on a regular basis

Not the prototypical stay-at-home who just logs minutes because he does possess a lethal shot

[Canuck Surfer]

I wonder if people still think we can sign Tanev for half that amount...

Wake me up when Tanev gains 30 lbs, has a Stanley cup ring, is your best defender, has a howitzer for a shot and is on track for 40 plus points!

Good for Johnny on the other side. Found a team who has been desperate for D for years. Helped him cash in beyond his value. Helps make up for the fact he has perhaps been underpaid in his career.

And to all the id__'s who panick and think we have to pay our RFA's on par with the most grossly paid UFA's who hit the market.

People would be well served to take much more conscious look at what Boychuck is making this year. $3.6 million. Take note that Boychuck > Tanev.

And remind themselves that the defensive defenseman Boychuck until this year was commanding that $3.6 mill as a UFA on his last deal!!!

[Canuck Surfer]

^^ Funny thing too. My projection was $3.6 mill to sign Chris. It is found early in the Tanev negotiation thread, as to a fair value if he signed for at least 4 or 5 years and gave us a couple of years of his UFA eligibility.

Fair value as in using our leverage to sign Chris to a contract that rewards his play, but still uses his RFA status to temper any unrealistic expectations.

[Canuck Surfer]

Thanks a lot NYI. So much for the pipe dream of getting EJ locked up long term at a good discount. We're going to have trouble getting him at anything under 7 million for 8 years come July 1st with the precedent this set. EJ and Barrie will probably come close to 100 million this summer between them. Good times.

It is satisfying to know that its not just CDC and Vancouver.

Other teams have fans that panic unnecessarily!

This said; If I'm Colorado > I'm ok locking Barrie up for 6 or 7 years in numbers 85 or 90% of what Doughty and Letang make. He is showing himself to be an elite offensive D man. He's 22 and already has two seasons of offensive scoring better than ANY Boychuck has accomplished in his career. The real deal!

EJ is going to take cautious consideration. It is time to forget he WAS a first overall pick. He is a good D man, his reputation tarnished by the fact he was traded for Shatenkirk who has outperformed him. He is a tweener. Definitely better than an average NHL blue line guy, but not elite. Like Edler? Including having some hiccups. If he signed a deal like Edler's (bit higher in todays market is fine) I'm ok with him.

Remember, or accept , Colorado should be cautiously building and are not going to win a Stanley Cup next year. They need to build carefully, get this and assets for ROR right to get back to being a contender. If he signs for 3 to 5 years at $5.2 to $5.5 (He is UFA and has some leverage) he can continue to be a building block. Otherwise in a heartbeat, I would trade Eric Johnson at next years deadline. Colorado could score a mitt full of young assets to compliment McKinnon, Varlemov, Landeskog, Barrie and Duchesne (it's true core). And have EJ's cap hit next summer to spend on another D who will probably be at least almost as good!

That would serve the team better than overpaying Johnson IMO.

[RUPERTKBD]

Wake me up when Tanev gains 30 lbs, has a Stanley cup ring, is your best defender, has a howitzer for a shot and is on track for 40 plus points!

Good for Johnny on the other side. Found a team who has been desperate for D for years. Helped him cash in beyond his value. Helps make up for the fact he has perhaps been underpaid in his career.

And to all the id__'s who panick and think we have to pay our RFA's on par with the most grossly paid UFA's who hit the market.

People would be well served to take much more conscious look at what Boychuck is making this year. $3.6 million. Take note that Boychuck > Tanev.

And remind themselves that the defensive defenseman Boychuck until this year was commanding that $3.6 mill as a UFA on his last deal!!!

Maybe you should wake yourself up.

If you'd care to read, I said half of what Boychuck is getting and if you truly believe that he'll sign for 3 million, you might as well stay asleep. People would be well served to realize that contracts signed in past years have little bearing on contract negotiations. It's recent contracts that agents are going to reference.

And calling me an idiot isn't going to get you far. When Tanev signs his new contract, we'll revisit this post and see who the "idiot" is. Rest assured, I'll make sure that everyone knows.

[Canuck Surfer]

I think I'm with you. That was my first reaction too. It's heavy on term but it has to be looked at in context.

With Boychuk and Leddy signed, plus a great contract with Hamonic, the Isles have the opportunity to provide stability on their backend and they can afford it. These next few years are going to be their opportunity to make a run for it and they are re-branding in Brooklyn immediately, and ongoing competitiveness is paramount. They have a pipeline of young dmen coming up so they should be able to fill out the bottom part of their D with cheaper, value contracts for the length of this deal. With Lubo possibly done all they are doing is shifting the dollars around.

The other thing to keep in mind, especially when considering that Boychuk is puttng up near Elite numbers, is that he provides a rock to build upon. He does everything for them, PP, 5on5, PK, big minutes, tough....and allows the rest of their D to play to their strengths. Leddy will never be the physical presence of Boychuk but he now has more room to do his job. The same can be said of Hamonic for his skill set, and will be for Reinhart too. All in all, their dollars spent on the D will still be in line with the league average and they will have every component to be dangerous for the next half dozen years.

Snow is putting his pieces in place to be a yearly competitor in the East. That's worthy of a financial gamble when you're talking about such an important piece. The cap room will be available to re-sign their forwards when they need to.

As much as everything you say could be perceived as fair? It is also the language of justifying to oneself the price you have paid after spending a lot. Every customer who pays a premium price for a product does it.

Look, if Orpik got $5.5 times $5 mill I suppose it can be argued Boychuck (who is better) is worth $6 mill. But Orpik's deal is also seen as a bit of a head scratcher. Either will be well worthwhile if their teams starting hoisting cups. NYI do have a better chance of that IMO btw.

But the term also carries a significant risk. Not that many D men are like Timonen or Chelios and performing at a high level at 36. Even if they hoist the cup these contracts have a good chance of being an anchor for their team to an extent 5 years after their signing.

It would have been a great deal, IMO, if this had been a 4 year term.

[Canuck Surfer]

Maybe you should wake yourself up.

If you'd care to read, I said half of what Boychuck is getting and if you truly believe that he'll sign for 3 million, you might as well stay asleep. People would be well served to realize that contracts signed in past years have little bearing on contract negotiations. It's recent contracts that agents are going to reference.

And calling me an idiot isn't going to get you far. When Tanev signs his new contract, we'll revisit this post and see who the "idiot" is. Rest assured, I'll make sure that everyone knows.

Face it, your original post was inflammatory.

In the context that you were spreading fear that we had to pay a ton for Tanev because deals like this have happened.

That is just not the case.

And for a test, a friendly bet lets call it, what is your projection for Tanev? Mine is on record. $3.6 mill for 5 or 6 years. I have argued consistently against paying $4 mill plus believing it is not warranted for an RFA.

[theminister]

As much as everything you say could be perceived as fair? It is also the language of justifying to oneself the price you have paid after spending a lot. Every customer who pays a premium price for a product does it.

Look, if Orpik got $5.5 times $5 mill I suppose it can be argued Boychuck (who is better) is worth $6 mill. But Orpik's deal is also seen as a bit of a head scratcher. Either will be well worthwhile if their teams starting hoisting cups. NYI do have a better chance of that IMO btw.

But the term also carries a significant risk. Not that many D men are like Timonen or Chelios and performing at a high level at 36. Even if they hoist the cup these contracts have a good chance of being an anchor for their team to an extent 5 years after their signing.

It would have been a great deal, IMO, if this had been a 4 year term.

That's reverse thinking. The NHL team doesn't justify it after the fact…. they decide it is within their comfort level beforehand. I'm certainly not justifying it… as a Canuck's fan there would be no need for me to do so… I'm analyzing what I believe must be the Isles' thinking, and I feel it has merit.

I supposition that not maximizing the greatest years of Tavares' career and current contract is greater than any imagined risk that the Boychuk deal presents.

I also did not say it was a great deal… I simply agree with Monty that it doesn't harm the Isles in anyway going forward. If there is any risk it is 5 years away and there are too many factors to make that anything more than speculation.

Considering what they have in front of them…. a new building, a superstar, a winning team, cap room, young talent replete in the system, and a committed owner…. they would be remiss to not do anything that doesn't help them in the next 4-5 years win a Cup.

[Canuck Surfer]

That's reverse thinking. The NHL team doesn't justify it after the fact…. they decide it is within their comfort level beforehand. I'm certainly not justifying it… as a Canuck's fan there would be no need for me to do so… I'm analyzing what I believe must be the Isles' thinking, and I feel it has merit.

I supposition that not maximizing the greatest years of Tavares' career and current contract is greater than any imagined risk that the Boychuk deal presents.

I also did not say it was a great deal… I simply agree with Monty that it doesn't harm the Isles in anyway going forward. If there is any risk it is 5 years away and there are too many factors to make that anything more than speculation.

Considering what they have in front of them…. a new building, a superstar, a winning team, cap room, young talent replete in the system, and a committed owner…. they would be remiss to not do anything that doesn't help them in the next 4-5 years win a Cup.

Fair enough.

I wonder if this means at least one of their young D will become available, as their blue line is suddenly pretty full.

I would be surprised to see Donovan, for example long term, as I believe Pullock or Reinhart will simply grab his spot. Edit: and have already speculated that Reinhart or Pullock would have been a great trading asset to have gotten them that much closer, even this recently passed deadline.

[RUPERTKBD]

Face it, your original post was inflammatory.

In the context that you were spreading fear that we had to pay a ton for Tanev because deals like this have happened.

That is just not the case.

And for a test, a friendly bet lets call it, what is your projection for Tanev? Mine is on record. $3.6 mill for 5 or 6 years. I have argued consistently against paying $4 mill plus believing it is not warranted for an RFA.

My point was to show that the three million dollar crowd is dreaming. When the time comes, Tanev's agent is going to point at recent contracts signed by other defencemen around the league.

I agree that Boychuck is better at this point of his career, but worth twice as much? I doubt it. I've stated in several threads that I think he'll get north of 4 million.

As I said earlier: When the time comes, we'll see who the "idiot" is....

[Canuck Surfer]

My point was to show that the three million dollar crowd is dreaming. When the time comes, Tanev's agent is going to point at recent contracts signed by other defencemen around the league.

I agree that Boychuck is better at this point of his career, but worth twice as much? I doubt it. I've stated in several threads that I think he'll get north of 4 million.

As I said earlier: When the time comes, we'll see who the "idiot" is....

I'm not aware of too many who think we are going to get off with a $3 mill deal for Chris Tanev.

But there are many that think the sky will fall if we don't give him everything he asks for.

So what is your projection?

[TheXFactor]

Dear God I forgot Tavares was only $5.5 mil. Best current contract? As for Boychuk... not sure about how good this contract is. 7 years feels a bit too long at $6 mil, and he's not exactly a Norris candidate.

As for Tanev... i'm guessing around $4.5 mil. Anything over $5 mil seems to be a bit much.

[Glory_Days]

Money isn't horrible...but still $6mil for a player who has shown once, this year, that he's capable of putting up points...and the term is terrible. I figured Isle would be one of the teams all in on Franson in off-season, I mean, they still could be, they have a lot of cap left.

[shazzam]

I guess he works really well with the team and they don't want to mess with that. Like how we let Ehrhoff go and our offense started to go down hill.

Given the isles history, he'll get bought out down the road.

[RUPERTKBD]

I'm not aware of too many who think we are going to get off with a $3 mill deal for Chris Tanev.

But there are many that think the sky will fall if we don't give him everything he asks for.

So what is your projection?

Check out the Tanev contract thread. There are plenty of dreamers.

My projection all along has been 4 million plus. No projections of the sky falling, just stating an opinion, one that apparently you believe to be "idiotic".

We'll see if your assessment is correct when the deal is done.