Temporary foreign workers prepare to leave the country

[aGENT]

What's easy is not what's right.

My wife is a permanent resident, and had to go back to her home country in between the time of applying for her permanent residency, and actually receiving it.

I have no sympathy for those incapable, unwilling, or somehow believe that the rules should not apply to them, certainly not for those with little to no qualified skills which would be an asset to the economy (they effectively are a net drain on the society as their costs related to health care outweigh their ability to have a positive impact on the economy).

Her brother is stuck back home, still waiting for his approval for permanent residency, and he's a qualified lawyer in his home country, yes he'd have to study and pass the bar exam here, but once he does he's a skilled member of the society.

It's not fair that these people with little to no skills should bump the line and receive preferential treatment when there are more deserving people following the rules and waiting their turn.

For once I'm actually glad that the Government is doing the right thing, and I hope they stick to their guns. If someone has been here as a TFW for more than 5 years, they should have applied for permanent residency. Ignorance does not belay responsibility.

It may be harsh but....pretty much this ^.

[Brick Tamland]

or it's as if he's referring to the fact that this article is about low-skilled employees working low-skill jobs?

My thoughts exactly

[TOMapleLaughs]

16 year olds who know the value of hard work by the time they are 20.

Winning.

But I don't see it.

[D-Money]

The idea behind permanent residency, and ultimately citizenship is, at least to me, such that those who seek those avenues do so because they have a vested interest in a future in this country.

It implies that they have a desire to improve skills/education in order to earn more money. What they do with their income is their business, however so long as they are paying taxes and genuinely spending some money within this economy I don't care if they send some money back home.

I think what you're describing is probably a subset of a subset, an exception to the rule (those who abuse the system because they can). My wife is a permanent resident, and on principle is determined to earn her citizenship herself. I genuinely believe that most who immigrate to Canada, do so because they want a better life for themselves, and their family, not simply to abuse loopholes in a flawed economic system.

Agreed.

I have a friend who had to wait two years to get her husband over from Africa. He was a certified accountant, got his degree in London, speaks near-perfect English, etc. He finally got through the system, and was reunited with his wife. He then took additional schooling to be certified here, they bought a house, had a couple of children, and are great contributors to the local and national economy. The city, Province, and country is better off with them here...(as am I, because I gained another good friend).

Why should we be holding up people like that, while giving a free pass to someone with very little skills, all so they can remain separate from their family and then send most of the money they are paid out of our domestic economy?

I get what the TFW program is about. And I also sympathize with the other side (recently had another friend and his wife in the program have to go back to Mexico, sadly). When the economy is really rolling, it is something that can benefit both sides. But when the economy is stalling/receding, the government is going to act in the best interests of its citizens.

[drummer4now]

Agreed.

I have a friend who had to wait two years to get her husband over from Africa. He was a certified accountant, got his degree in London, speaks near-perfect English, etc. He finally got through the system, and was reunited with his wife. He then took additional schooling to be certified here, they bought a house, had a couple of children, and are great contributors to the local and national economy. The city, Province, and country is better off with them here...(as am I, because I gained another good friend).

Why should we be holding up people like that, while giving a free pass to someone with very little skills, all so they can remain separate from their family and then send most of the money they are paid out of our domestic economy?

I get what the TFW program is about. And I also sympathize with the other side (recently had another friend and his wife in the program have to go back to Mexico, sadly). When the economy is really rolling, it is something that can benefit both sides. But when the economy is stalling/receding, the government is going to act in the best interests of its citizens.

I am more sympathetic towards refugees or stateless people as I think we should do more to accept them...

As for the bold part I think legally there's nothing wrong with it as of right now, but morally its not right.

But since life is all about thuganomics lol sometimes you gotta do whatever possible to survive and get by...

[-DLC-]

Agreed.

I have a friend who had to wait two years to get her husband over from Africa. He was a certified accountant, got his degree in London, speaks near-perfect English, etc. He finally got through the system, and was reunited with his wife. He then took additional schooling to be certified here, they bought a house, had a couple of children, and are great contributors to the local and national economy. The city, Province, and country is better off with them here...(as am I, because I gained another good friend).

Why should we be holding up people like that, while giving a free pass to someone with very little skills, all so they can remain separate from their family and then send most of the money they are paid out of our domestic economy?

I get what the TFW program is about. And I also sympathize with the other side (recently had another friend and his wife in the program have to go back to Mexico, sadly). When the economy is really rolling, it is something that can benefit both sides. But when the economy is stalling/receding, the government is going to act in the best interests of its citizens.

My friend also had to go back to Mexico, and I miss him. But he knew that would eventually be the case and accepted it as such. He plans on coming back one day, if possible, and we've kept in touch.

But this country has a lot of people struggling to make ends meet and it just makes sense to work from within, first, and then extend an arm outward. That old lifejacket scenario where you can't save anyone if you don't save yourself first.

I do feel bad for people who've established some roots here, but if they have family back home that surely softens the blow.

[Armada]

Good.

[Lockout Casualty]

Gotta help yourself before you can help the world.

[TOMapleLaughs]

I just picture a bunch of poor foreign workers heading underground. We just created a bunch of illegals with no rights at all. Slaves.

We just became a bit closer to how it is in the US.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Deadline+leave+Canada+could+force+some+temporary+foreign+workers+into+underground+economy/10937500/story.html

Sure, 'Canadian jobs for Canadians first', but the question might be if Canadians are even willing to do some of these low-skill jobs now?

[drummer4now]

I just picture a bunch of poor foreign workers heading underground. We just created a bunch of illegals with no rights at all. Slaves.

We just became a bit closer to how it is in the US.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Deadline+leave+Canada+could+force+some+temporary+foreign+workers+into+underground+economy/10937500/story.html

Sure, 'Canadian jobs for Canadians first', but the question might be if Canadians are even willing to do some of these low-skill jobs now?

I am sure there will always be someone willing to do them..

A recent immigrant might have no choice or a student struggling to find a part-time job..

[Lockout Casualty]

I just picture a bunch of poor foreign workers heading underground. We just created a bunch of illegals with no rights at all. Slaves.

We just became a bit closer to how it is in the US.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Deadline+leave+Canada+could+force+some+temporary+foreign+workers+into+underground+economy/10937500/story.html

Sure, 'Canadian jobs for Canadians first', but the question might be if Canadians are even willing to do some of these low-skill jobs now?

There's no such thing as a job someone refuses to do. It's a question of money. Pay enough, and people will eat dog crap with a spoon.

And Canadian jobs aren't for Canadians, but for permanent residents in Canada, regardless of what citizenship they may hold. It's fair game for everyone but TFWs.

[GLASSJAW]

There's no such thing as a job someone refuses to do. It's a question of money. Pay enough, and people will eat dog crap with a spoon.

And Canadian jobs aren't for Canadians, but for permanent residents in Canada, regardless of what citizenship they may hold. It's fair game for everyone but TFWs.

sometimes you don't even have to pay that much

[TOMapleLaughs]

There's no such thing as a job someone refuses to do. It's a question of money. Pay enough, and people will eat dog crap with a spoon.

And Canadian jobs aren't for Canadians, but for permanent residents in Canada, regardless of what citizenship they may hold. It's fair game for everyone but TFWs.

That's just it though, these jobs do not pay.

[GLASSJAW]

That's just it though, these jobs do not pay.

because they didn't have to

[Dral]

I must say that I'm having a hard time feeling sad over this, and here's why.

I have NEVER in my life been out of work, except by choice in order to care for my kids. With that, since October I've painstakingly been applying and interviewing for jobs (that are swamped with applicants...its' not uncommon for 2000 Resumes to be sent for one position). In my city, I'd guess that 50-70% of jobs in the administrative field call for a Chinese language, narrowing down potential jobs for me in this region (I've gone well outside of it in my search).

With so many people now losing jobs here (Target, Future Shop, in the oil industry, etc.), it's getting tougher to find a job and although that's what this woman is experiencing in facing going back home, I feel that same pain. It's basically me or her.

Sounds harsh, but I also saw my former boss abusing the TFW program....I believe he may have even been collecting cash from people in his homeland, who he reported as providing jobs to when, in fact, I never saw them work a day at our facility. Something was up there (I got out of there when all business practices became "concerning" to me).

We have to take care of the people who are "permanent fixtures" here who are committed to staying on and contributing...not to take care of family elsewhere. Because it just doesn't make sense to let people "in" for jobs that aren't there...it's slowly becoming the case. We have more and more people bordering on the poverty line here and that should be the number one focus...in getting them on track to a better life.

2 things here Deb

1 - she is not going home to a similar situation you were in. It's far far worse. It's so not even close, it's almost disrespectful to compare the two. I'm not trying to downplay your situation and the hardships you've gone through, but until Canada turns into a third world country and by your paycheck alone you have to support your husband, your kids, your parents, your husbands parents and in many cases, extended family as well - all who are living in what can barely be described as a shack, living on a bowl of rice... it's not even close.

2- in many cases, these workers are doing jobs that Canadians won't do. I remember a case in the US a few years ago of one of the border states changing their temporary foreign immigration laws and farmers couldn't harvest their crops any more. I watch an interview of a farmer who said Americans won't work in the fields, and the few exceptions who try, don't last more then a day or two before they quit because the work is too hard.

[aGENT]

...and the few exceptions who try, don't last more then a day or two before they quit because the work is too hard for the pay.

FTFY

[drummer4now]

because they didn't have to

and that's where the TFW came in...

Easy way for employers to keep wages low and exploit people who aren't aware of it..

[Lockout Casualty]

That's just it though, these jobs do not pay.

Of course not, why pay when you can abuse the TFW program? Let's see what happens when we shut off the cheap labour tap.

[drummer4now]

2 things here Deb

1 - she is not going home to a similar situation you were in. It's far far worse. It's so not even close, it's almost disrespectful to compare the two. I'm not trying to downplay your situation and the hardships you've gone through, but until Canada turns into a third world country and by your paycheck alone you have to support your husband, your kids, your parents, your husbands parents and in many cases, extended family as well - all who are living in what can barely be described as a shack, living on a bowl of rice... it's not even close.

2- in many cases, these workers are doing jobs that Canadians won't do. I remember a case in the US a few years ago of one of the border states changing their temporary foreign immigration laws and farmers couldn't harvest their crops any more. I watch an interview of a farmer who said Americans won't work in the fields, and the few exceptions who try, don't last more then a day or two before they quit because the work is too hard.

Good points..

Go to any blueberry farm or vineyard on the lower mainland and I would say more than 90% are immigrants of South Asian descent..

[-DLC-]

2 things here Deb

1 - she is not going home to a similar situation you were in. It's far far worse. It's so not even close, it's almost disrespectful to compare the two. I'm not trying to downplay your situation and the hardships you've gone through, but until Canada turns into a third world country and by your paycheck alone you have to support your husband, your kids, your parents, your husbands parents and in many cases, extended family as well - all who are living in what can barely be described as a shack, living on a bowl of rice... it's not even close.

2- in many cases, these workers are doing jobs that Canadians won't do. I remember a case in the US a few years ago of one of the border states changing their temporary foreign immigration laws and farmers couldn't harvest their crops any more. I watch an interview of a farmer who said Americans won't work in the fields, and the few exceptions who try, don't last more then a day or two before they quit because the work is too hard.

Well how presumptuous of you to say so, without knowing my situation.

I've stood on my feet for 12 hours a day, canning and icing fish in the past...don't tell me what I will/won't do. As a single Mom of two kids who had both parents dying of cancer and a flooded house that still sits in disrepair, I have stories of my own. You have no idea. I worked 3 jobs at one time in order to make ends meet and I have NOTHING to speak of...everything is second hand and given to me. I bust my tail and can't make it in my first world country - that's a problem that now needs looking at (too).

And I'm finding it tough to stay afloat here....so unless we're planning on making this a third world country in the near future, with so many living at and under the poverty line, that is my first concern.

Again - see that lifejacket scenario. "Help" extends so far and then it becomes enabling. The long term goal should be to get people ahead so they can make moves toward a better life.

After years, if that hasn't happened then the program has failed anyhow. It's not meant to be "forever", which is why the word temporary was used. I have nothing but empathy and my daughter actually works in the field (of helping third world countries). But this program was a bit of a bust and not everyone applied it as they should have. And it's now expired...which is perfectly reasonable.

All this was doing was allowing employers to jump on board and not pay or abide by Employment Standards as they should...I saw it in my workplace, first hand. So it was contributing to the deterioration of things as that played out.