Canucks Sports and Entertainment IS A BUSINESS.

[DonaldBrashear]

For anyone interested, here's what Canucks season tickets cost for the 99-2000 season.

Lower Bowl Centre seats were $62.50 back then, including GST. Today, those lower bowl centre seats cost $152.25 with GST included. Club seats back then were $100....... today? $194.25. So business has definitely been good to the Canucks, and that's great. They went from a team that was talked about being moved to a new city, to being a top team in the league and supporting other teams financially.

But the reason I feel we have seen them having trouble selling tickets is simply due to the prices. Those price increases from 99/00 to 13/14 were unsustainable. You can't double ticket prices in a 14 year span and expect it to be sustainable if the team starts to stumble. Back in 99/00 we had just drafted the Sedins, and now the Sedins are getting close to retirement. Time sure flies by.

[BanTSN]

Here's a message for Canucks Sports & Entertainment:

You would have to think the company has looked into this method of simple marketing sales again. Sure, a lot of teams pick a jersey and stick with it, but that doesn't identify with this market, who likes having plenty of colors and styles to choose from.

From the skate in rink, to the flying V, to the skate in planet, to the orca, the broad diversity of color schemes and styles matches the broad diversity of people in Vancouver who all like to attend Canucks games and cheer them on.

This diversity is all united though, with white towels as they scream 'Go Canucks Go!' in the playoffs.

[bigbadcanucks]

Here is the problem:

A business wants profit, profit and profit. Fans want Stanley Cups and they don't care about profits. The route to a Stanley Cup involves years of rebuilding, a process that does not generate profits for the owners. This is the reason why the Aquilinis want a retool rather than a rebuild. It will keep generating profit if the team can compete for a playoff berth every year, but it is not the best way to a Cup.

For us fans, it is easy to go for a rebuild. But if you were the owner, you wouldn't want to lose millions a year.

CSE is an independent company, but wholly owned by the Aquilini family. The Aquilini's have a real estate development company, as well as commercial farming operations and power generation corporation to name a few, to go along with CSE. CSE is their highest profile, and least profitable business unit.

They could give a rat's ass about the amount of profit CSE generates because the equity value in their investment has grown by 400% since they took full ownership of CSE. And yes, its can be argued that the 400% gain in equity value of CSE is driven by the team's profitability, so with lower profitability the Aquilini's investment of $200M would be worth $500M instead of $800M. That's still a solid when it comes to return on investment. Plus they don't have shareholders to answer to like MLSE. As long as they don't have to pour money into sustaining CSE, they're probably happy. It's an over simplification, but if the Aquilini's want to make up the paltry losses that an NHL franchise could potentially face in a market like Vancouver, all they have to do is put up a wind farm in the Philippines that will generate them on-going revenues to off-set any losses from their other business units...oh wait, they're already doing that.

In fact, if I'm the Aquilinis, I'd run the Canucks at an operational loss for tax breaks. But that would be bad press for the Aquilinis.

This entire notion that the Aquilinis will refuse to go into full re-build for fear that it's going to hurt their bottom line for the short term is absurd. The problem as far as I can see is that the Aquilinis don't have any appetite for being a bottom-feeder for any reason whatsoever, even if it enhances the team's chance of acquiring a generational player in the draft. If this means year-after-year of being a middling team, they're willing to accept that vs. being where the Oilers have dwelled for the past >10 years.

I'm guessing that Francesco, Luigi and the rest of the family sleep pretty well at night knowing that if the Canucks lost any money they could easily make it up with their other ventures.

[otherwise]

I totally agree with the OP, however, rationality is not always the main component of fandom.

It is a business for sure, and a successful at that.

I'd agrue that it's not a successful business...it's riding a wave of WCE/2011 trip to the finals. Those are things our current owners had little to do with. There was no plan when the moose left for player development in the A. There have apparently been poor front office picks/politics/meddling. There doesn't seem to be a plan to be winners, I've heard the owners say they want to bring a cup to Van over the years, but I've never seen that follow thru. Just spending close to the cap doesn't mean you'll be a contender- if anything it makes the canucks look like poor money managers. There have been years of poor decisions made and quite frankly I'd be amazed if the canucks can avoid ending up where edmonton is now.

[apollo]

Well said. I'm so grateful for everything this team has given me since 01-02... Wouldn't want to cheer for anyone else.

This fan base is a little upsetting when u see people diving off the ship because they have 0 brain and think we should have got Crosby for bieksa and Lack by now.

Trolls will be trolls. Nucks rule.

[BanTSN]

I'd agrue that it's not a successful business...it's riding a wave of WCE/2011 trip to the finals. Those are things our current owners had little to do with. There was no plan when the moose left for player development in the A. There have apparently been poor front office picks/politics/meddling. There doesn't seem to be a plan to be winners, I've heard the owners say they want to bring a cup to Van over the years, but I've never seen that follow thru. Just spending close to the cap doesn't mean you'll be a contender- if anything it makes the canucks look like poor money managers. There have been years of poor decisions made and quite frankly I'd be amazed if the canucks can avoid ending up where edmonton is now.

I think the fans have to realize that winning a cup is a matter of luck, and that anything can happen in the playoffs. A hot goaltender, being healthy, etc. The Canucks could have easily beaten the young Flames but that's the way she goes sometimes. I don't think there's any planning at all that a GM can do to foresee that, and because of circumstances out of their control and the main objective being to entertain the fans on a year-to-year basis anyway, that why there often APPEARS to be no planning done here to win.

I believe there is a company plan though. The plan is to be competitive every season, make sure the fans get the best quality product for their dollar every year, and hopefully turn a big profit every year. That's what the fans want, and that's what they get. They might also want a Stanley Cup win or wins, but that can happen at any time due to the reasons stated above regarding luck, anything can happen if you just make the playoffs, etc.

Sure, other teams might perform better-looking moves, make better-looking choices at drafts, etc., but trust me, it's all an illusion. It is all 100% luck and so far the Canucks just haven't been lucky enough to ultimately win. One year they will be. You just have to relax, have another beer, enjoy the games such as they are, and know that one year they will be winners.

I think the sooner the fans realize that it's a business, the Canucks, and the NHL, the sooner they'll be happier with what they have, and that is a world-class organization that is focused on delivering the best sports entertainment experiences possible year after year, right here in their very own city. They should be very proud.

[Salmonberries]

You would have to think the company has looked into this method of simple marketing sales again. Sure, a lot of teams pick a jersey and stick with it, but that doesn't identify with this market, who likes having plenty of colors and styles to choose from.

From the skate in rink, to the flying V, to the skate in planet, to the orca, the broad diversity of color schemes and styles matches the broad diversity of people in Vancouver who all like to attend Canucks games and cheer them on.

This diversity is all united though, with white towels as they scream 'Go Canucks Go!' in the playoffs.

This! BanTSN knows his city and his team. Clearly.

You come to love it for what it is, warts and all.

[Quoted]

They keep mentioning it's a business or it's a part of the business. does anyone else think it was a very bad business decision to trade away Lack for such a low return?

Player trades is separate from the pure business side. Besides, who's to say that wasn't lack's true value in this market?

[DBag]

Player trades is separate from the pure business side. Besides, who's to say that wasn't lack's true value in this market?

it might just be me then but i don't think it's completely separate. The fanbase is pretty smart (and frustrated). When you trade a fan favourite in eddie lack for a return you don't think is fair, i think in some way it hurts the business. As the radio mentioned yesterday, sure lack's value at the time could've been that, but benning should've managed his asset better and wait for a better moment to trade him (e.g. when teams are more desperate for a goalie due to injury, etc). They basically called out Benning saying he mishandled this asset, which i completely agree with.

[Rocksterh8]

Over forty years, and NO cup!

The paying hardcore fans, want a cup! They will still support their team in a total re-build because they know thats the way to finally get a realistic chance at a CUP!

Someone should take a poll of fans that will support a re-build to show the owner it can work!

[apollo]

Over forty years, and NO cup!

The paying hardcore fans, want a cup! They will still support their team in a total re-build because they know thats the way to finally get a realistic chance at a CUP!

Someone should take a poll of fans that will support a re-build to show the owner it can work!

They did win a cup in 2011......

[TOMapleLaughs]

They did win a cup in 2011......

Source?

I hear that "it's a business" all the time. Looking at all the money flying around, you're goddamnrights it is. Duh. But does that mean the team isn't interesting in winning? That better not be true, because the fans sure as hell are. Freakin' 40+ years of pain and suffering aside, they sure have invested a crapload into their beloved team, only to be told that they're not even interesting in winning?!? Riots!!! ... Oh.

[Mustapha]

Sure it's a business, the entertainment business to be exact.

Memo to Canucks S&E: Getting smoked in the first round all the time by younger and faster players is not entertaining.

You want more paying customers? Fix your underwhelming on-ice product.

[BanTSN]

Over forty years, and NO cup!

The paying hardcore fans, want a cup! They will still support their team in a total re-build because they know thats the way to finally get a realistic chance at a CUP!

Someone should take a poll of fans that will support a re-build to show the owner it can work!

There will NEVER be a rebuild like how you would define it. The fans won't accept it, and it is the duty of Canucks Sports and Entertainment to provide top-notch sports entertainment experiences each and every season. But that doesn't mean the team will never win a cup. The fans need to understand that winning the cup is based on 100% luck. It is a crapshoot, just like the draft. Sure, some teams might appear to be built better for the playoffs and they appear to do well in the draft, but this is all just an illusion. Each and every one of those GM's in charge would have to admit that they were VERY lucky. Remember where Datsyuk was drafted? How did LA win the cup when they were 8th in the conference? LUCK!

[Mustapha]

The fans need to understand that winning the cup is based on 100% luck. It is a crapshoot, just like the draft. Sure, some teams might appear to be built better for the playoffs and they appear to do well in the draft, but this is all just an illusion. Each and every one of those GM's in charge would have to admit that they were VERY lucky. Remember where Datsyuk was drafted? How did LA win the cup when they were 8th in the conference? LUCK!

Smoking the peyote again are we?

Using your logic, any of the 30 NHL teams have an equal chance of winning the Stanley Cup, doesn't matter if you are the Blackhawks or the Coyotes, it's 100% luck, right?

Give me a break.

By the way, LA's 2012 cup was a direct result of a mid-season coaching change from Murray to Sutter. The team didn't just 'get lucky'.

There's a reason why the Hawks and Kings have multiple championships in such a short amount of time. They had a superior lineup playing a superior game. Sure, they might benefit or suffer from a bad bounce or unfortunate play, but that doesn't make the process 100% luck.

I mean, Edler and Tanev are really just as good as Keith and Seabrook, because what we see on the ice is merely an illusion.....right?

[mpt]

You also forgot to mention that Vancouver has been rated in the bottom 5 fan experiences going to games in the entire league. Thanks for that Canucks Sports and Entertainment; we enjoy paying the highest ticket prices in the league for one of the worst experiences the league has to offer

[Quoted]

it might just be me then but i don't think it's completely separate. The fanbase is pretty smart (and frustrated). When you trade a fan favourite in eddie lack for a return you don't think is fair, i think in some way it hurts the business. As the radio mentioned yesterday, sure lack's value at the time could've been that, but benning should've managed his asset better and wait for a better moment to trade him (e.g. when teams are more desperate for a goalie due to injury, etc). They basically called out Benning saying he mishandled this asset, which i completely agree with.

Yes, from that angle, I wouldn't disagree. I guess I was more separating the pure $$ of the ownership from the management side. But, I would agree that one certainly impacts the other and when they aren't on the same page is a potential disaster for the club.

[Quoted]

You also forgot to mention that Vancouver has been rated in the bottom 5 fan experiences going to games in the entire league. Thanks for that Canucks Sports and Entertainment; we enjoy paying the highest ticket prices in the league for one of the worst experiences the league has to offer

It's a little circular though as that rating was based in part on ticket price (amongst other things).

[higgyfan]

There will NEVER be a rebuild like how you would define it. The fans won't accept it, and it is the duty of Canucks Sports and Entertainment to provide top-notch sports entertainment experiences each and every season. But that doesn't mean the team will never win a cup. The fans need to understand that winning the cup is based on 100% luck. It is a crapshoot, just like the draft. Sure, some teams might appear to be built better for the playoffs and they appear to do well in the draft, but this is all just an illusion. Each and every one of those GM's in charge would have to admit that they were VERY lucky. Remember where Datsyuk was drafted? How did LA win the cup when they were 8th in the conference? LUCK!

Blackhawks sure are 'lucky' to win 3 SC in 6 years eh?

[The Honey Badger]

There will NEVER be a rebuild like how you would define it. The fans won't accept it, and it is the duty of Canucks Sports and Entertainment to provide top-notch sports entertainment experiences each and every season. But that doesn't mean the team will never win a cup. The fans need to understand that winning the cup is based on 100% luck. It is a crapshoot, just like the draft. Sure, some teams might appear to be built better for the playoffs and they appear to do well in the draft, but this is all just an illusion. Each and every one of those GM's in charge would have to admit that they were VERY lucky. Remember where Datsyuk was drafted? How did LA win the cup when they were 8th in the conference? LUCK!

In a way, yes. However, I don't believe it's 100% luck, although luck does have a big element in it.

Chicago has been very good in terms of injury during playoff. This year, if Kane recovers on schedule or his injuries hit about 2 weeks later, the hawks may not get past 2nd round. He was instrumental in early round. I mean who knows though, maybe Chicago has excellent conditioning and medical staff.

Conn Smythe winner Duncan Keith this year was drafted 54th overall back in 2002. It was the hawks' 2nd choice, they picked Anton Babchuk first round.

So yes, luck has some element to it, but I disagree that it is a crapshoot.

LA won the cup as an 8th seed because the team was built for playoff grind when you face the same team day in and day out, not for regular season where you face different teams game after game. If it is 100% luck, canucks sure as hell are some unlucky bunch.