Are we in full rebuild. Or just clueless?

[Mathew Barzal]

A GM who's specialty is in drafting and scouting talent is being forced to deal them to get younger while competing because we have a feairweather fanbase and can't afford to take the financial hit of another top 3 pick year.

 

Our team is f*cked.

[BanTSN]

5 hours ago, Salmonberries said:

Bob Mackenzie thinks this is the thinking that went into the Gudbranson trade.

 

Here in the Aquaverse.

Prepare to be amazed.

[WhoseTruckWasIt]

MUST THINK WITHIN TINY BOX!!!!!!

 

 

[Baggins]

On 2015-07-01 at 4:36 PM, nitti999 said:

I do not believe JIm Benning or Trevor Linden truly had a plan when it comes to this hockey team. They seem to be now scrambling to make decisions that don't really add up to a direction either.

Some may argue that they are planning a rebuild and unloading contracts for the future. And bringing in the young players to develop. If so.....

Why sign Miller to a 3 year 6 mil contract only to trade a young semi proven goalie and fan favorite in Lack To mentor Markstrom? Seriously Markstrom hasn't proven a thing at the Nhl level and was on the way out the door last year

Why trade Kassian for a 31 year old player?
Why sign Vrbata? He's not young and will be gone next year
Why keep the Sedins to age at 7mil cap space.

Why? Why? Why?

What has the regime done to improve this team moving forward. Sure he drafted Virtanen and couple other potentials. But so did every other team in the league.

Sad days for Canucks nation. At least we are having great weather

You obviously haven't paid any attention to TL & JB have been saying all along - stay competitive while rebuilding. If you don't understand getting Kassian out of here there's little point in trying to explain anything.

[Crabcakes]

2 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said:

A GM who's specialty is in drafting and scouting talent is being forced to deal them to get younger while competing because we have a feairweather fanbase and can't afford to take the financial hit of another top 3 pick year.

 

Our team is f*cked.

I'm sure some of you have heard of the BPA drafting strategy.

 

JB likes to draft the BPA.  When teams do this, they get the strongest asset available and trade for need later. 

[Mathew Barzal]

26 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I'm sure some of you have heard of the BPA drafting strategy.

 

JB likes to draft the BPA.  When teams do this, they get the strongest asset available and trade for need later. 

There isn't always a universal BPA. I doubt Boeser was slated to go that high on many other GM's lists.

[JamesB]

6 hours ago, Stanky Legs said:

Who are the next wave?

 

5 hours ago, westcoast said:

Horvat,Virtanen ,Boeser and whomever we draft.

Wave is a bit strong. Maybe more like a ripple. I like Horvat, Virtanen, and Boeser, and I expect to like whoever we draft at #5. But Horvat is two-way guy who is either a great 3C or decent 2C. Virtanen's trajectory is consistent with what the much-criticized Craig Button said when he was drafted -- a third line banger. Boeser looks like the real deal -- a potential 1RW, although of course we have not yet seen if his game will transition to the NHL.

 

So, yes, I like those guys. But we are lacking potential franchise players -- either a good 1C to replace Henrik or a legitimate top of the depth chart D who plays well in all situations.

 

Maybe we get a potential franchise player in the draft this year. If things go to form, we get Dubois, and he does look very good. He immediately goes to the top of the Canuck prospect pool if we draft him.

 

 

[Baggins]

6 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said:

A GM who's specialty is in drafting and scouting talent is being forced to deal them to get younger while competing because we have a feairweather fanbase and can't afford to take the financial hit of another top 3 pick year.

 

Our team is f*cked.

Wouldn't that ability to "scout talent" also apply to the young players he's dealt picks for?

[Snake Doctor]

Clueless.

[alfstonker]

On 2 July 2015 at 0:59 AM, cuporbust said:

If we tanked with a perpose and were getting good return on our moves , I think u would be surprised

There is no "tanking with purpose" for CDC - why? Because there is no logic and where there is no logic there is only mayhem and destruction - that is CDC on a good day.

[alfstonker]

4 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

Wave is a bit strong. Maybe more like a ripple. I like Horvat, Virtanen, and Boeser, and I expect to like whoever we draft at #5. But Horvat is two-way guy who is either a great 3C or decent 2C. Virtanen's trajectory is consistent with what the much-criticized Craig Button said when he was drafted -- a third line banger. Boeser looks like the real deal -- a potential 1RW, although of course we have not yet seen if his game will transition to the NHL.

 

So, yes, I like those guys. But we are lacking potential franchise players -- either a good 1C to replace Henrik or a legitimate top of the depth chart D who plays well in all situations.

 

Maybe we get a potential franchise player in the draft this year. If things go to form, we get Dubois, and he does look very good. He immediately goes to the top of the Canuck prospect pool if we draft him.

 

 

All that is mostly true but it totally ignores two things which have dominated JB's term so far.

 

Firstly the hellish state we were in when he took over. We are talking about 4-5 years of miserable drafting and development. (including the "Chicago wilderness" years)

Secondly, given the above, two seasons and 3 drafts is hardly time enough to address the underlining decline that was affecting this Club.

 

We need to be much more patient on these boards and give the management and coaches time to sort out the mess.

[ice orca]

4 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

All that is mostly true but it totally ignores two things which have dominated JB's term so far.

 

Firstly the hellish state we were in when he took over. We are talking about 4-5 years of miserable drafting and development. (including the "Chicago wilderness" years)

Secondly, given the above, two seasons and 3 drafts is hardly time enough to address the underlining decline that was affecting this Club.

 

We need to be much more patient on these boards and give the management and coaches time to sort out the mess.

It wouldn't be too bad if this guy didn't toss 2nd rounders out like candy, thats my bitch with him.

[alfstonker]

4 minutes ago, ice orca said:

It wouldn't be too bad if this guy didn't toss 2nd rounders out like candy, thats my bitch with him.

I'm not happy about it either but then I think of Gillis who seemed to put his macho pride over getting something done - hence where we are now.

 

Benning is a pragmatist and that manifests itself in his ability to move forward. 2nds are just that, a number with odds of success penned next to their name.

 

We can't afford to wait to see if some guy is going to pan out 2-3 years down the line when we are at least getting mid twenties players of excellent credentials in these deals and moving forward.

[N4ZZY]

9 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I'm not happy about it either but then I think of Gillis who seemed to put his macho pride over getting something done - hence where we are now.

 

Benning is a pragmatist and that manifests itself in his ability to move forward. 2nds are just that, a number with odds of success penned next to their name.

 

We can't afford to wait to see if some guy is going to pan out 2-3 years down the line when we are at least getting mid twenties players of excellent credentials in these deals and moving forward.

I agree. I think Benning has the tricky task of assembling young talent via the draft each year regardless of where we pick. we should have a first rounder every year cause I really don't see us being Cup contenders for a while - which means we will have decent first round picks during those years. but I also agree that Benning isn't simply giving away second round picks for aging veterans who are past their primes. he's getting and gambling on young players that have potential still to perhaps contribute to the Canucks. some pan out (Bäertschi) while others maybe not so much (Vey). but these are still young players and they are further along in their developments with the organizations previous as opposed to freshly new draft picks who will take several years to pan out. it's a hard task. I hope Benning succeeds. 

[Wrecken]

10 hours ago, Stanky Legs said:

No. GMs won't say it but he was supposed to do it, until yesterday. He's a flip-flopper. No direction. Unlike Shanahan.

How do you flip-flop from something you never said, or were never publicly told to do?

[Neko]

On 7/1/2015 at 4:36 PM, nitti999 said:

Why trade Kassian for a 31 year old player?
Why sign Vrbata? He's not young and will be gone next year
Why keep the Sedins to age at 7mil cap space.

Why? Why? Why?
 

Even though Prust barely lasted half a season, he was Virtanen's mentor.

Virbatta was picked up when he was playing well and he did play well the first season with the Canucks but this year didn't even show up.

The Sedins are Vancouver's franchise players.

Miller has also been doing just fine in Vancouver but Markstrom might take the starting role after showing what he can do and Miller can hold the spot until Demkos is ready.

 

Every team needs a few veterans to lead by example for the younger players and to be their mentors.

 

From what I've seen, Benning is doing stuff that makes more sense than Gillis ever has, give him a chance for this coming season to see how the team pans out.  If all goes well, in roughly 2 years we'll be playoff contenders again.

 

15 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Benning/Ownership want to make the playoffs.  That is their goal and they've done everything in their power to do that.

 

This team is NOT rebuilding in any sense.  You don't trade away three 2nd round picks, two 3rd and two 5th picks and say you're rebuilding.

 

The team finishing so bad last year wasn't because of any rebuild, it was because of injuries and because our only elite players are past their prime. 

You don't rebuild a team completely on draft, you need to grab UFA's and trades to restructure a team.  If you base a rebuild on draft, you're goin to turn that team into an AHL team playing in the wrong league (which is kind of close to what Edmonton has been doing).

[Wrecken]

59 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I agree. I think Benning has the tricky task of assembling young talent via the draft each year regardless of where we pick. we should have a first rounder every year cause I really don't see us being Cup contenders for a while - which means we will have decent first round picks during those years. but I also agree that Benning isn't simply giving away second round picks for aging veterans who are past their primes. he's getting and gambling on young players that have potential still to perhaps contribute to the Canucks. some pan out (Bäertschi) while others maybe not so much (Vey). but these are still young players and they are further along in their developments with the organizations previous as opposed to freshly new draft picks who will take several years to pan out. it's a hard task. I hope Benning succeeds. 

I agree with this.

I cant help but wonder what Vey could have been, could still become, with all his family issues behind him. It sheds a new light of hope on him knowing what he was going through, and could still get past.

[N4ZZY]

7 minutes ago, Wrecken said:

I agree with this.

I cant help but wonder what Vey could have been, could still become, with all his family issues behind him. It sheds a new light of hope on him knowing what he was going through, and could still get past.

I'm rooting for Vey. especially with all the stuff he's had to deal with in terms of his family. if he does. it's also good for the Canucks to be able to trade him to offer him greater opportunity. might net the Canucks a good player or picks. 

[JamesB]

6 hours ago, alfstonker said:

All that is mostly true but it totally ignores two things which have dominated JB's term so far.

 

Firstly the hellish state we were in when he took over. We are talking about 4-5 years of miserable drafting and development. (including the "Chicago wilderness" years)

Secondly, given the above, two seasons and 3 drafts is hardly time enough to address the underlining decline that was affecting this Club.

 

We need to be much more patient on these boards and give the management and coaches time to sort out the mess.

I would favor being patient if that was the strategy articulated and followed by the GM. But it isn't. Benning continues to emphasize the importance of winning now and has made a lot of moves that compromise the future in return for short run gains.

 

I would have preferred a Toronto approach -- saying to the fans what you said here -- that it will take a few years to sort out the mess. Then I would have liked to see moves focused on acquiring draft picks and building for the future.

 

Pretty much everyone agrees that Benning's greatest strength is in drafting. So I would like to see him take advantage of that strength by acquiring picks and building for the future.

[Honky Cat]

37 minutes ago, JamesB said:

I would favor being patient if that was the strategy articulated and followed by the GM. But it isn't. Benning continues to emphasize the importance of winning now and has made a lot of moves that compromise the future in return for short run gains.

 

I would have preferred a Toronto approach -- saying to the fans what you said here -- that it will take a few years to sort out the mess. Then I would have liked to see moves focused on acquiring draft picks and building for the future.

 

Pretty much everyone agrees that Benning's greatest strength is in drafting. So I would like to see him take advantage of that strength by acquiring picks and building for the future.

Gudbranson is only 24,there's probably a good decade of hockey in him...Could you specify for me,what moves has Benning made in return for a short term gain.?