The other side to Benning's expensive 4th line

[Kevin Biestra]

Do you really think 700K is what's gonna make or break the Canucks?

Are you complaining about how overpaid Shawn Matthias is now? That guy got a whooping 2 extra points over Dorsett, was a - player & earned 16 minutes in the box...not for sticking up for his team. I'll take Derek any day of the week.

700K won't make or break the Canucks. If management takes a relaxed attitude toward 700K per bottom-nine forward, then before you know it, you've cost yourself a very good second liner, or the difference between Vrbata and Toews in cap space.

I just think Benning isn't showing a great deal of efficiency in individual salaries relative to the cap. If this were the pre-cap New York Rangers then yeah, no big deal. But every time he hands out an extra 500K or $1M per year to a player, that comes out of what he has available to improve the team. Especially since the Canucks have the ability and willingness to spend to the cap.

With the amount that he has lost in cap space through trading for / signing Sbisa, Dorsett, Prust, etc., he might already be at or close to another Chris Higgins / Jannik Hansen level player for the lineup.

It's not the end of the world, but you can't start giving everyone $500K or more on top of their market value to make them feel "appreciated" and thus play better. Playing hockey is their job. The Sedins are almost $2M apiece "underappreciated" right now per year. I expect them to play hard nonetheless.

[ice orca]

Really. The Twins did everything in the series against Calgary and dominated. If we have a good second line then teams will be scared of the twins. If we don t have a great second line then your right. Not because your comments about the Twins. But most players don t do well paired always against the 1 and 2 shutdown defenders. The soft twins will do better this year than last. Not because there old. But because Benning is building a team.

Go back and read my post, nothing in there about the Sedin twins.

[DrJockitch]

I don't see Horvat taking a step backwards this year, Baer will get his share of goals, Burrows is healthy, Vrbata is still a pure goal scorer and Weber is going to get a starting spot this year so he should help the scoring. There is a possibility that Virtanen makes the team and he is capable of scoring, if nothing else his size and speed plus grit should give his linemates some room. Then there is Brandon Sutter, after playing behind Crosby and Malkin, he has a good shot at centering the 2nd line....the guy can score goals and if he is out with a healthy Burrows and Baer....he will have a good year. As far as scoring, I am not too concerned about losing the players that aren't on the team this year because I think we will have a shot at having 4 productive lines that have some size, grit, skill and speed (well the Sedin line won't be fast but that isn't their game).

I hope you are right, but. Sophomore year is often much harder than the rookie year. Look at what has happened to a lot of prospects with higher offensive ceilings than Bo like Huberdeau and MacKinnon, often the second year is a lot harder than the first.

Virtanen I think adds value to the lineup without scoring. He struggled to provide a lot of scoring at the AHL level when he played there. WD have him work on D and positioning and focus on using his speed and checking, the offence will likely come later. He may be one of the rare rookies that can score while learning the NHL game but that is a big if.

Baer looks like a great prospect and may be able to step in this year and play regularly but may not. I would be thrilled to see him get 35-40 points, that would be a great rookie year.

Sutter has never broken 40 points but can score goals at a fairly dependable rate and certainly we should expect 15-20 goals. Maybe more, I hope so with more of an offensive chance. Little playmaking ability so someone on that line will need to do it. Man if he could have only got his head together, Kassian would have been the perfect lineman for him.

I think realistically Vey is a more seasoned rookie with his AHL experience and is the best chance to see a significant improvement in scoring. Man though doesn't make me feel good to bet my season on Vey improving.

I like that we are seeing skating and toughness emphasized throughout the lineup as Benning's plan starts to take shape. It is going to take some amazing coaching and some amazing performances by young players as well as Price style goaltending for this team to match what it did last year.

[TheCammer]

Exactly what I was thinking. In what universe is Higgy worth a 1st?

The CDC Universe....

[Fred65]

You have to think that Vcr is not any where near a serious Cup run. So then the question becomes what do you do or concentrate in the mean time. Well it seems to me Benning wants his youngster to stay in the AHL developing and secondly he wants to grow a sense of character and hard work on his roster. Suitable for introducing youngsters into a good climate. I think it's fair to say you do not look at what happening immiediatley but look to see how he's setting up the future for maybe the best bunch of prospects the club has seen.

Last Spring in the play-offs maybe the biggest concern was the lack of push back when Calgary started to play the big man. What makes me think this is the case is JB made it clear he'd like to have Richardson back ( Who got a sweetheart deal in Phx ...3 years ) JB recognized Richardson was a push back player.... not a fighter but a nasty bit of goods if he was pushed and that's clearly what JB is looking for.

I guess it remains to be seen how long the plan takes to bring the style to the roster. It's the reason Vertanin might get the nod over other rookies, what he brings after the whistle

[canucklehead44]

A second line of Baer - Horvat - Hansen would be 5.1 in salary cap. Having Baertshi over a 2nd line FA signing like Michael Frolik saves us 3.4 million, which enables us to have 2.5 million dollar 4th line wingers who can actually contribute instead of fill a gap.

[falcon45ca]

700K won't make or break the Canucks. If management takes a relaxed attitude toward 700K per bottom-nine forward, then before you know it, you've cost yourself a very good second liner, or the difference between Vrbata and Toews in cap space.

I just think Benning isn't showing a great deal of efficiency in individual salaries relative to the cap. If this were the pre-cap New York Rangers then yeah, no big deal. But every time he hands out an extra 500K or $1M per year to a player, that comes out of what he has available to improve the team. Especially since the Canucks have the ability and willingness to spend to the cap.

With the amount that he has lost in cap space through trading for / signing Sbisa, Dorsett, Prust, etc., he might already be at or close to another Chris Higgins / Jannik Hansen level player for the lineup.

It's not the end of the world, but you can't start giving everyone $500K or more on top of their market value to make them feel "appreciated" and thus play better. Playing hockey is their job. The Sedins are almost $2M apiece "underappreciated" right now per year. I expect them to play hard nonetheless.

You make some fair points, & no argument here that the Sedins are underpaid. Bringing in another Higgs/Hansen level player though seems moot, as the Canucks have plenty of forwards & there are some young guys aching to cut their teeth this season...I don't really see what adding another forward who has the same skills the Canucks already have in spades does for the team.

I think that Benning has shown, with the Weber, Baert & Markstrom signings, that he isn't overpaying on every contract, & honestly I don't know if you can find a GM in the league who doesn't have some players that are "overpaid" on the roster.

[Wildwood]

Virtanen will play 9 games and then be sent down...I'll be very surprised if he makes the team.

Horvat made the team because he played consistent and got better as the season progressed.

Virtanen doesn't play with consistency and this will be his undoing.

Grenier and others from Utica are one year older and will probably earn a spot on the roster...

I think Higgins and another veteran's days are numbered.

I disagree. Virtanen played in the Ahl playoffs and didn't look out of place. In fact Virtanen was moved up in line (by Coach

Travis Green) because he didn't make bad mistakes and played with speed and toughness. (he intimidated people on the other team). In fact in the final Virtanen got the flu and missed the last few games. Jim Benning mentioned that the Utica Comets missed Virtanen's toughness in the final.

They asked him to work on his conditioning this summer. He knows what he has to do to make the team and I think he will.

[WTG]

Dorsett and Prust do not change any culture.

Culture changers come from the top not the bottom.

Dorsett is basically a 1 hit wonder in Vancouver wouldn't surprise me if he plays in the AHL before his contract expires. Players like him that bang and smash and are tiny usually don't last over 30.

Prust is already gone. I watched a decent amount of Montreal games and his shoulders already gave out.

So IMO we are paying 5m+ for 2 guys that do nothing but fight. So nothing that actually makes us better. We also gave up Kassian + 3rd + 5th for these 2 useless forwards. Complete lack of foresight and asset management by Benning.

That alone puts him on thin ice. The fact that he signed Sbisa as well makes me count down the days before this buffoon get's fired.

[Boeser23]

1st line Dank Hank Vrbata because they work great together and burrows plays ok with sedins but vrbata plays excellent

2nd line Kenins Horvat Hansen because they were our second best line

3rd line Baertschi Sutter Burrows because Baertschi and Burrows are third or fourth liners and Bo is better than sutter

4th line Prust Vey Dorsett because fourth line are meant to be tough Prust and Dorsett will beat up ferland together

1st D pair Edler Weber because they are like the same. Both got hard shots and score many goals

2nd D pair Hamhuis Tanev because if hammer has a decent partner he will play good

3rd D pair Sbisa Bartkowski because they will be the biggest surprise in Vancouver

[DinoTambo]

Dorsett and Prust do not change any culture.

Culture changers come from the top not the bottom.

Dorsett is basically a 1 hit wonder in Vancouver wouldn't surprise me if he plays in the AHL before his contract expires. Players like him that bang and smash and are tiny usually don't last over 30.

Prust is already gone. I watched a decent amount of Montreal games and his shoulders already gave out.

So IMO we are paying 5m+ for 2 guys that do nothing but fight. So nothing that actually makes us better. We also gave up Kassian + 3rd + 5th for these 2 useless forwards. Complete lack of foresight and asset management by Benning.

That alone puts him on thin ice. The fact that he signed Sbisa as well makes me count down the days before this buffoon get's fired.

A buffoon? Smh.

Let me know when you stop counting.

[slaythedragon]

Dorsett and Prust do not change any culture.

Culture changers come from the top not the bottom.

Dorsett is basically a 1 hit wonder in Vancouver wouldn't surprise me if he plays in the AHL before his contract expires. Players like him that bang and smash and are tiny usually don't last over 30. Where do you gather that from? There are plenty of players like Dorsett over the age of thirty.

Prust is already gone. I watched a decent amount of Montreal games and his shoulders already gave out. What?

So IMO we are paying 5m+ for 2 guys that do nothing but fight. So nothing that actually makes us better. We also gave up Kassian + 3rd + 5th for these 2 useless forwards. Complete lack of foresight and asset management by Benning. Just because they are not putting up huge numbers, doesnt mean they dont have any value. I guess for you toughness means just fighting. But really tough players are the ones with heart, they push the team when its not doing so well. No disrespect but the better part of this post lacks foresight rather than Benning.

That alone puts him on thin ice. The fact that he signed Sbisa as well makes me count down the days before this buffoon get's fired.Agree with this somewhat. But calling Benning a buffoon, without even giving him a chance to fullfill his vision, is nothing short of impateince.

[DinoTambo]

Dorsett and Prust do not change any culture.

Culture changers come from the top not the bottom.

Dorsett is basically a 1 hit wonder in Vancouver wouldn't surprise me if he plays in the AHL before his contract expires. Players like him that bang and smash and are tiny usually don't last over 30.

Prust is already gone. I watched a decent amount of Montreal games and his shoulders already gave out.

So IMO we are paying 5m+ for 2 guys that do nothing but fight. So nothing that actually makes us better. We also gave up Kassian + 3rd + 5th for these 2 useless forwards. Complete lack of foresight and asset management by Benning.

That alone puts him on thin ice. The fact that he signed Sbisa as well makes me count down the days before this buffoon get's fired.

So much wrong..Head hurts...

''Culture changers come from the top and not the bottom''

Gillis, Gilman, Henning, Torts,..out.

Linden, Benning, Dejardins, in

That there's pretty much a culture change,..from the top.

''Dorsett...guys like him that bang and smash an are tiny don't usually last over 30.''

OK,..so says you. Any examples or proof?

''Prust is already gone. I watched a decent number of Montreal games and....''

Yeah,..that's where you lost me. That argument is so weak. Unless you're actually trolling CDC and you're actually some kind of incognito scout, or the actual Habs team physician, please do not use that arguement.

But then I accidentally looked back and read on...

''Complete lack of foresight and asset management by Benning. That alone puts him on thin ice.''

With who?? You? Seriously. If he WAS on thin ice, wouldn't there be a relatively obvious uncomfortable vibe around the organization that the local media would be hammering home non-stop??

So hey, even in YOUR opinion, if he SHOULD be on thin ice,...he isn't. Benning's going nowhere.

[WTG]

So much wrong..Head hurts...

''Culture changers come from the top and not the bottom''

Gillis, Gilman, Henning, Torts,..out.

Linden, Benning, Dejardins, in

That there's pretty much a culture change,..from the top.

''Dorsett...guys like him that bang and smash an are tiny don't usually last over 30.''

OK,..so says you. Any examples or proof?

''Prust is already gone. I watched a decent number of Montreal games and....''

Yeah,..that's where you lost me. That argument is so weak. Unless you're actually trolling CDC and you're actually some kind of incognito scout, or the actual Habs team physician, please do not use that arguement.

But then I accidentally looked back and read on...

''Complete lack of foresight and asset management by Benning. That alone puts him on thin ice.''

With who?? You? Seriously. If he WAS on thin ice, wouldn't there be a relatively obvious uncomfortable vibe around the organization that the local media would be hammering home non-stop??

So hey, even in YOUR opinion, if he SHOULD be on thin ice,...he isn't. Benning's going nowhere.

"With who?? You? Seriously. If he WAS on thin ice, wouldn't there be a relatively obvious uncomfortable vibe around the organization that the local media would be hammering home non-stop??"

Do you need the media to validate your opinions? If they aren't noticing something that doesn't really mean there aren't issues. Vancouver media sucks.

"Gillis, Gilman, Henning, Torts,..out.

Linden, Benning, Dejardins, in

That there's pretty much a culture change,..from the top."

I meant roster not management. But it's okay if you think going from a GM that won GM of the year to a GM that probably considered bottom 5 is a good culture changer then sure you go right ahead.

"OK,..so says you. Any examples or proof?"

K let me get my data base of players smaller than Shinkaruk that play a grinding game at a replaceable level make it past 30 in the NHL. I mean come on. Dorsett is not going to play in the NHL till 34...... Let's be serious.

"Yeah,..that's where you lost me. That argument is so weak. Unless you're actually trolling CDC and you're actually some kind of incognito scout, or the actual Habs team physician, please do not use that arguement."

Prust's rapidly declining production is nothing to be ashamed off. I mean he is what he is. A 4th liner getting paid 2.5m that has a resume of injuries. But hey he's probably going to be the next jagr and play till he's 40+.

"So hey, even in YOUR opinion, if he SHOULD be on thin ice,...he isn't. Benning's going nowhere."

If I was in charge I'd have Gillis back. I prefer smart people running the club not idiots.

[Webster6]

Grinders with heart play hard whether they are making $800K or $2.9M. It's in their makeup and it's why they made the NHL and got a reputation as players with heart. I don't think you'll get much more out of Dorsett on the ice by paying him $2.5M rather than $1.2M. If you do, it certainly won't be $1.3M in cap space worth of extra performance.

Meh. 2.5 is an average salary and Benning will have guys like Baertschi (900k) on the 2nd line (and likely sometimes 3rd) so he's just spreading the money out throughout the lineup. People worrying about those salaries aren't seeing the bigger picture.

[Mattrek]

Meh. 2.5 is an average salary and Benning will have guys like Baertschi (900k) on the 2nd line (and likely sometimes 3rd) so he's just spreading the money out throughout the lineup. People worrying about those salaries aren't seeing the bigger picture.

Especially after next year when we'll have a bunch of cap space free up.

[IBatch]

Benning paid a premium for both these contracts but he needed to do something. Kassian was a big dumb body that needed to go, Prust plays a very similar game to Dorsett and is full of heart just like him. This will help throughout the line-up. They both can play the game and do other things than just fight, which is exactly the curve the entire league has taken over the last two years. Now Vancouver is on top of that and if it costs a couple mill that the top two lines can't eat up instead I am all for it. Good job Benning.