EternalCanuckFan Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 The Caps are a great fit for a Hamhuis rental. We also have to remember that Hammer has a NTC so, IMHO, it would be far more likely that he would waive to go to the Stanley Cup favorite than, say, the Penguins. As for the return for Hammer, I'm not sure what the Caps cap space is like but I would expect the Canucks to have to either keep or take back some salary. My guess is that the premium return for Hammer will be a 1st or high end prospect. The low end return will be a 2nd and maybe another pick. In either case, there may be other players or picks involved go balance the cap and the weighting of the deal. For cap purposes, I wouldn't mind the Canucks taking back Laich. He's a UFA so it won't hurt the Canucks - they get a vet who can play centre and maybe mentor and take some pressure off McCann for the rest of the season. He is a long time Cap though so if they do make a run, it would be nice to see him success with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, J.R. said: I'm not saying we sell the farm but I think you're underestimating Bowey's value. Hamhuis and a fairly redundant/replaceable Brisebois for Bowey and say a late third is still an incredible deal. Bowey is a future cornerstone piece. The goal shouldn't be to outright fleece them. If it happens and we get Bowey and their 1st for Hamhuis straight up, great! I just don't think that's realistic. Oh no no I far from under estimate Boweys value, again I watched him for multiple seasons with the rockets. I know what his full value is. But I also know how teams over pay at the deadline, I don't expect a 1st and him at all, but I also don't expect that we need to add prospects when there are other ways to get this deal done via cap retention, later round picks and eating a bad contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 50 minutes ago, RyIe said: I'd be really surprised if JB Benning stole anything. The guy is just not very trade savy, especially for pieces he really wants. I'd offer Shinkaruk into this trade if it meant landing Bowey. Not trade savy? Managed to swap Sutter with Bonino by giving Clendening who ended up getting waived. Got the better player for nothing. Got Sven Baertschi for a pick, and he seems to be working very well with Bo Horvat. Seems to have paid off. Got Emerson Etem for basically swapping Nickals Jensen. I ain't complaning.. Also go Jared McCann out of the Kesler trade too (but I guess thats more to drafting.) Benning has been a good GM so far and mad some good trades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Oh no no I far from under estimate Boweys value, again I watched him for multiple seasons with the rockets. I know what his full value is. But I also know how teams over pay at the deadline, I don't expect a 1st and him at all, but I also don't expect that we need to add prospects when there are other ways to get this deal done via cap retention, later round picks and eating a bad contract Sure, but I'm with Forsberg, they're going to want someone to lessen the blow of losing their best D prospect. They'll want some depth coming back there. Even if that means we retain less salary/take less of a bad contact etc. We can afford to lose Brisebois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: No he's not. He's back on the ice skating with the team. I stand corrected, although he is still on LTIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boddy604 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Everyone is getting a little ahead of themselves on deciding what the value of Hamhuis is. #1 before ANYTHING is people seeing how he plays after he returns. He's been out for a while and if he comes back looking slow and sloppy, he's not getting a 1st or a top prospect. And if he doesn't get that, he's probably not going anywhere. I'm hoping Benning and Desjardins have enough sense to pair him with Biega or Hutton vs Bartkowski or Sbisa just to make him look better. My guess is with Biega since Hutton seems to be the only guy so far who does well with Sbisa. And even if Hamhuis doesn't get traded, a top 4 of Edler-Tanev, Hamhuis-Biega is gonna be a lot nicer to watch for us Canucks fans. Hopefully we can get a nice return for him but that's gonna be decided on how Hamhuis looks until Feb 29, if Hamhuis is willing to waive his NTC (but for a shot at the Cup on a team with Ovechkin I think he would), and if Benning is even willing. If Hammer and Biega tear it up and we're all of a sudden back in the top 3 in the division, who knows. Hopefully Benning pulls the trigger regardless. That's a few legitimate questions to consider though before anyone gets too excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 If we are luck Hamuis for Bowey. If not then 1st+ Carrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Pears said: Who would've thought Washington would give up Forsberg for Martin Erat? What about New York giving up all they did for Keith Yandle? You're making Bowey for Hamhuis sound like a dream when really it isn't. I'm sure Caps fans would trade Bowey for a Cup in a heartbeat. Yandle wasn't UFA, neither was Erat. therefor your point is mute. Also Hamhuis doesn't guarantee the caps a cup, far from it. Going back to your point though, Erat for Forsberg is exactly why they wouldn't make this deal. Top prospect for current team help. Didn't work out so well did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said: I stand corrected, although he is still on LTIR I believe he plans on coming back after the All Star break, same with Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I'm a cap fan. I watch them almost as much as the canucks and yes he's skating with the team. He's expected to be back mid Feb. As a caps fan. Do you think landing Bowey is possible in a Hamhuis type deal? And if so, for what price? May be a loaded question but his value seems to vary heavily around here with little consistency. Would Hamhuis for Bowey deal straight up work? Or which side needs to add pieces? I for one think that a fair deal would be Hamhuis and a 2nd round pick, for Bowey and a 6th or so. Is that fair? If not what do you think is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 47 minutes ago, Green Building said: I understood the context, and you just added my next point for me with your second sentence. It really depends what the team needs are. I mean imagine Buff paired with Orlov in the bottom pairing, then being used on powerplays. I'd watch that. with Hammer apparently losing a quarter-half step of footspeed before being injured, I'd lean toward taking Buff, except I'd wager the asking price would get me back on the phone with JB. Not me. Even with a quarter-half step lost (whatever that is) I don't see Buff as a superior skater to Hammer. Agree to disagree on this one. 32 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: You have to consider the situation. Hamhuis is a upgrade over Schmidt. Not over Alzner of Orpik. He's an upgrade on their bottom pairing. Caps would know full well that they couldn't resign Hamhuis in the off season with all their upcoming RFA's and Kuz in 2 summers. He'd be a pure rental. You also have to consider the caps circumstances. Orlov is an upcoming RFA, Bowey is the bargaining price that keeps Orlov's deal reasonable. Caps aren't that dumb that they'd offer up they best chip for a slightly better bottom 6 defensemen. The only way they'd move Bowey is if Canucks are sending back a future piece in return, something to soften the risk. Remember last year when Caps picked up Gleason for only a 4th and a depth forward. Consider the Bouwmeester deal. Jay was 30 when the deal happen, he was also a piece that Blues would expect to resign in the offseason, Flames got a late first plus two low end C prospects. I full expect Hamhuis to be getting far less in return. Canucks will be lucky to get a first round pick for him. If Jay Bouwmeeter couldn't pick up a teams best prospect why would hamhuis. You may be correct in your assessment, but if that were the case, I wouldn't move Hammer. Despite what some of the Nancies on CDC think, we don't have to move Hamhuis. He's got an NTC and likely will only move to a contender. A contender who wants that final piece for a Cup run (or to replace a piece, if Orpik can't go) is going to have to overpay. Otherwise I see no point. A second round pick from the Caps is going to be somewhere around 60th overall. I'd see what other teams are offering before I sell that low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boddy604 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, TheLiveWire said: As a caps fan. Do you think landing Bowey is possible in a Hamhuis type deal? And if so, for what price? May be a loaded question but his value seems to vary heavily around here with little consistency. Would Hamhuis for Bowey deal straight up work? Or which side needs to add pieces? I for one think that a fair deal would be Hamhuis and a 2nd round pick, for Bowey and a 6th or so. Is that fair? If not what do you think is? Hamhuis for Bowey straight up I think the Caps hang up the phone on. If they maybe did Hamhuis + Bartkowski or a Utica guy, that'd be closer. If Hamhuis had been healthy all season, a straight swap might be closer to realistic. I think Bowey is stretching expectations though. We could use a right wing prospect though with nhl potential. Until Boeser is ready, Grenier is our best option in Utica and he might not even be an NHLer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 hours ago, smokes said: I say hold on until the dominoes start to fall. The Canucks were the first to get rid of Lack last year and all others trades ended up with higher compensation. Goalies prospects and back ups aren't in demand. Most teams have a guy or two of their own on their farm club. Just because the team and fans like a player doesn't mean the other teams are sold. Great defencemen and centres usually are what most teams need. It's not a matter of timing, it's what's being dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 16 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yandle wasn't UFA, neither was Erat. therefor your point is mute. Also Hamhuis doesn't guarantee the caps a cup, far from it. Going back to your point though, Erat for Forsberg is exactly why they wouldn't make this deal. Top prospect for current team help. Didn't work out so well did it. Yes. Totally "mute".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, TheLiveWire said: As a caps fan. Do you think landing Bowey is possible in a Hamhuis type deal? And if so, for what price? May be a loaded question but his value seems to vary heavily around here with little consistency. Would Hamhuis for Bowey deal straight up work? Or which side needs to add pieces? I for one think that a fair deal would be Hamhuis and a 2nd round pick, for Bowey and a 6th or so. Is that fair? If not what do you think is? I think Bowey has more value to a canucks then a draft pick. We need a young top 4 potential RHD. Bowey is a player canucks would push for, but I do think Bowey could be optainable since the caps already have their RHD depth in Carlson, Niskanen and Orlov. All fairly young and Orlov is about to get locked up this summer. It means Bowey is likely on the outside but caps would still try to get fair value for him. I would say since hammer is really only a upgrade over Schmidt it would take some youth coming back. There's definitely a deal to be made. So Hamhuis + youth/pick, they'd likely want one of our LHD prospects (Tryamkin, Brisebois) and possibly even a conditional pick based on the caps actually making it past the 2nd round depending on the value of the prospect we'd offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: You may be correct in your assessment, but if that were the case, I wouldn't move Hammer. Despite what some of the Nancies on CDC think, we don't have to move Hamhuis. He's got an NTC and likely will only move to a contender. A contender who wants that final piece for a Cup run (or to replace a piece, if Orpik can't go) is going to have to overpay. Otherwise I see no point. A second round pick from the Caps is going to be somewhere around 60th overall. I'd see what other teams are offering before I sell that low. Why not. Even if we give up Hamhuis + Brisebois/pick for Bowey, do canucks really lose much. We'd gain a big piece for our team. We could very well turn around and resign Hammer in the offseason so essentially it would have been Brisebois for Bowey. That's a win any way you want to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I think Bowey has more value to a canucks then a draft pick. We need a young top 4 potential RHD. Bowey is a player canucks would push for, but I do think Bowey could be optainable since the caps already have their RHD depth in Carlson, Niskanen and Orlov. All fairly young and Orlov is about to get locked up this summer. It means Bowey is likely on the outside but caps would still try to get fair value for him. I would say since hammer is really only a upgrade over Schmidt it would take some youth coming back. There's definitely a deal to be made. So Hamhuis + youth/pick, they'd likely want one of our LHD prospects (Tryamkin, Brisebois) and possibly even a conditional pick based on the caps actually making it past the 2nd round depending on the value of the prospect we'd offer. This is very good insight. I agree, adding a player like Bowey should be crucial for us. Interesting point about Orlov going to get an extension as well. I think this trade is definately possible. Hamhuis + a 2nd round pick is a hefty price for a prospect who hasn't played a game in the NHL yet. I can see something like Hamhuis + Tryamkin + 3rd round pick for Bowey + 5th round pick. As long as we can add Bowey, retain our first round pick, and not give up future core, then we should consider it a win. Overpayment or not, having Bowey would change a lot of things for this franchise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Yes. Totally "mute".... Tomato, To maw toe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Why not. Even if we give up Hamhuis + Brisebois/pick for Bowey, do canucks really lose much. We'd gain a big piece for our team. We could very well turn around and resign Hammer in the offseason so essentially it would have been Brisebois for Bowey. That's a win any way you want to look at it. Okay, now I'm confused. Were you not saying that the Caps would "never" give up Bowey for Hammer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Okay, now I'm confused. Were you not saying that the Caps would "never" give up Bowey for Hammer? never give up straight. They would want a lesser prospect or a pick to come back as a consolidation piece as Hamhuis is in fact a rental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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