Sven Baertschi | LW

[mll]

Friedman in his 31 thoughts:

 

23. Vancouver put Sven Baertschi on waivers because their trade efforts made them comfortable in the knowledge he would clear. With this year and next at just under $3.67 million, they understood how things would develop. What I wouldn’t assume is that the organization has given up on the idea he could help them at some point. The impressive Adam Gaudette has to prove he can stick, and there are several forwards who could be in and out of the lineup. Baertschi will have the opportunity to write better chapters in his Vancouver story.

[aGENT]

Just now, mll said:

Friedman in his 31 thoughts:

 

23. Vancouver put Sven Baertschi on waivers because their trade efforts made them comfortable in the knowledge he would clear. With this year and next at just under $3.67 million, they understood how things would develop. What I wouldn’t assume is that the organization has given up on the idea he could help them at some point. The impressive Adam Gaudette has to prove he can stick, and there are several forwards who could be in and out of the lineup. Baertschi will have the opportunity to write better chapters in his Vancouver story.

@kanucks25

[Elias Pettersson]

7 hours ago, Grape said:

The thing is, he's healthy right now.  If/when he gets injured, then you move on to to a replacement player; but how does it hurt your team to have a perfectly healthy Sven Baertschi start the season?

 

If the best player in the world is always injured for 90% of the season, you're not gonna cut him off of the team for that reason. You keep him until he inevitably gets injured and then wait until he recovers again. Obviously this is a massive reach but it's the same concept. Sven is one of our top offensive forwards, and undoubtedly a top 12 forward on the team when healthy. The fact that he is healthy now should be enough to keep him on the team at the start of the season. 

 

And I'm not sure what "system" you think Green implements, but I can guarantee you there's no system in the NHL that says "take offense away from an already offensively challenged team." I mean our bottom 6 had by FAR the worst goal differential in the league last year. Having the same guys like Leivo, Virtanen, Eriksson, Sutter in those positions will not change anything. It should be glaringly obvious when we trot out our "checking line" because they fit Green's "system," while other teams have scorers on their 3rd and 4th lines and continue to dominate.

 

The answer for our bottom 6 woes should have been to add skill and offense to it. Sven could have been perfect for helping our bottom 6 not be historically bad again. Instead we're literally going to have almost the same bottom 6 because it "fits Green's system." I'm not bashing Green, I'm just refuting the idea that any coach would have a system that doesn't allow for there to be skill on the 3rd line, because that's crazy. 

Virtanen had 15 goals last year.  That's a better number than Baertschi at the same age.  Leivo had 14 goals.  Sutter hit 17 and 21 goals in years prior.  Baertschi's best year ever was 18 goals.  You make it sound like Baertschi is a 25-30 goal scorer.  He never was and never will be.  Leivo and Virtanen also provide big bodies, can hit, go in the corners and kill penalties.  Basically exactly what you want in a 3rd line.

 

Sorry but unless Baertschi is in the top 6 he doesn't really have a role on this team.  He wasn't picked up for free on waivers and Friedman said they were actively trying to trade him in the offseason with no takers.  If teams thought Baertschi could play a top 6 role and score 25-30 goals he would have been easily traded.  But his injury history and not ever playing more than 69 games in a season obviously put off the rest of the teams.

 

Baertschi can be called up at any time.  If Leivo and Virtanen can't produce on the 3rd line then Baertschi can be easily called up and we can send Schaller and/or Eriksson to Utica.

 

Green picked his team to start the year so let's see what happens and if he was right in his selections.  He is the coach so he has the right to pick who he wants on the team.  If the team doesn't produce then Benning also has the right to fire Green or at least force him to make changes.

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

@kanucks25

I said myself that they probably knew he was going to clear given they couldn't trade him for nothing.

 

Just that I believe he's a cap casualty in that if there weren't some less desirable contracts on the books (regardless of how much we save by sending him down vs someone else), he'd still be with the Canucks.

 

And if people want to argue that he was waived because he's the 15th best forward we have, or that he can't play if he's not in our top 6, then we can agree to disagree.

 

And this is coming from someone who isn't the biggest fan of Baerstchi, or the trade that brought him here

Edited October 2, 2019 by kanucks25

[Alflives]

Just now, kanucks25 said:

I said myself that they probably knew he was going to clear given they couldn't trade him for nothing.

 

Just that I believe he's a cap casualty in that if there weren't some less desirable contracts on the books, he'd still be with the Canucks.

 

And people want to argue that he was waived because he's the 15th best forward we have, or that he can't play if he's not in our top 6, then we can agree to disagree.

I heard JB say that Baer needs to play games, and lots of minutes.  This demotion to the AHL is almost like a conditioning stint.  I just hope he's back soon, and the ONE GUY I hoped to be packing his bags is tossed.  

[aGENT]

14 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I said myself that they probably knew he was going to clear given they couldn't trade him for nothing.

 

Just that I believe he's a cap casualty in that if there weren't some less desirable contracts on the books (regardless of how much we save by sending him down vs someone else), he'd still be with the Canucks.

 

And if people want to argue that he was waived because he's the 15th best forward we have, or that he can't play if he's not in our top 6, then we can agree to disagree.

 

And this is coming from someone who isn't the biggest fan of Baerstchi, or the trade that brought him here

The dollars saved are the exact same whether it was Baer, Schaller or Eriksson.

 

[theo5789]

11 hours ago, kenhodgejr said:

I still think Baertchi on the top line would create more offence than with Ferland. I could be wrong. But I hope he gets back to playing at 100% 

Baertschi's most productive season was when he put up 29 points in 53 games or just a shade under 45 points for a full season. Ferland recently had 2 back to back 40 point seasons (which we are shortened seasons by about 10 games, so in a full season also around the 45 point mark). The difference is Ferland is a very physical guy as well. I do agree that Baertschi is likely the better creator of offense than Ferland is, but we are talking about a line that has EP and BB on it. We need a guy that can do the greasy work and create space moreso than another guy to simply create offense whose production isn't significantly higher than someone we have.

 

Personally I think if we want to load up the top line, then Miller would also work much better than Baertschi there as well. Baertschi may have had a fit in the middle 6, but we opted for size and speed this go around. We still have Baertschi in the system who we don't appear to be writing off just yet, so he could very well find himself another opportunity, but it is up to him to take that and run. He needs to get out of  the Gagner/Spooner type of player.

[theo5789]

16 hours ago, Pete M said:

would rather have 3 scoring lines than 2 checking lines and an extra PKer. Baer could score more than anyone on the bottom 6, if healthy.

I think many are underrating Leivo and Virtanen as scoring options. Plus we have Gaudette that we can throw in there as well. You're not wrong that Baertschi might just be the most talented guy in our current bottom 6, but I could make the same argument for Goldobin too. The team opted to go with size this year and hoping for some breakout from these guys.

 

With Motte injured (and Roussel), it makes even more sense why guys like LE and Schaller are kept instead because of their ability to PK. No need to start the season pushing guys like Pearson, Miller and Horvat into those duties regularly (even though they are capable) to start and increase their risk of injury.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I think many are underrating Leivo and Virtanen as scoring options. Plus we have Gaudette that we can throw in there as well. You're not wrong that Baertschi might just be the most talented guy in our current bottom 6, but I could make the same argument for Goldobin too. The team opted to go with size this year and hoping for some breakout from these guys.

 

With Motte injured (and Roussel), it makes even more sense why guys like LE and Schaller are kept instead because of their ability to PK. No need to start the season pushing guys like Pearson, Miller and Horvat into those duties regularly (even though they are capable) to start and increase their risk of injury.

Never mind Roussel when he gets back. 

 

A Roussel, Sutter, Leivo/Virtanen/Gaudette line has the ability to score 35+ points each +/- while also playing a grittier, 2way, match up, PK and high dzone start role that doesn't particularly suit Baer.

 

Is he the 15th most 'talented' forward on the roster? Nope. Is he the 15th best fit on the roster....give or take...yeah, probably.

[kanucks25]

49 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The dollars saved are the exact same whether it was Baer, Schaller or Eriksson.

 

Yes, I know. I said that, but ok.

[Elias Pettersson]

29 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Never mind Roussel when he gets back. 

 

A Roussel, Sutter, Leivo/Virtanen/Gaudette line has the ability to score 35+ points each +/- while also playing a grittier, 2way, match up, PK and high dzone start role that doesn't particularly suit Baer.

 

Is he the 15th most 'talented' forward on the roster? Nope. Is he the 15th best fit on the roster....give or take...yeah, probably.

Leivo       Sutter    Virtanen 

Roussel   Beagle   Motte 

 

That’s a pretty good bottom 6. And you still have Gaudette who can fill in one of those spots. And Baertschi can always be called up when needed with an injury. 

 

We are a deep organization this year. We have two NHL players in Utica and two more in the press box plus Roussel on IR. 

[Alflives]

33 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Add yet another reason why our AHL team should be here in Abbotsford or even in the Pacific Colosseum.   

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Leivo       Sutter    Virtanen 

Roussel   Beagle   Motte 

 

That’s a pretty good bottom 6. And you still have Gaudette who can fill in one of those spots. And Baertschi can always be called up when needed with an injury. 

 

We are a deep organization this year. We have two NHL players in Utica and two more in the press box plus Roussel on IR. 

True, but Loui is the choice for line 3.  We need him for his physical presence.  

Edited October 2, 2019 by Alflives

[aGENT]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Leivo       Sutter    Virtanen 

Roussel   Beagle   Motte 

 

That’s a pretty good bottom 6. And you still have Gaudette who can fill in one of those spots. And Baertschi can always be called up when needed with an injury. 

 

We are a deep organization this year. We have two NHL players in Utica and two more in the press box plus Roussel on IR. 

Yup, but...

 

*Roussel's not a 4th liner.

[Ray_Cathode]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

I heard JB say that Baer needs to play games, and lots of minutes.  This demotion to the AHL is almost like a conditioning stint.  I just hope he's back soon, and the ONE GUY I hoped to be packing his bags is tossed.  

I think they need to establish that he can survive the rigours of pro hockey without doing serious damage to himself, and still conduct himself as a winger should in the requirements of his whole game.

[Ray_Cathode]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Yup, but...

 

*Roussel's not a 4th liner.

Yep, Roussel takes left wing and Leivo and Virtanen fight it out for right.  Fierce internal competition - I can’t remember the last time we had that.  And first time Sutter goes down, Gaudette has his job and I don’t think he will give it back.

[Kootenay Gold]

2 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Yep, Roussel takes left wing and Leivo and Virtanen fight it out for right.  Fierce internal competition - I can’t remember the last time we had that.  And first time Sutter goes down, Gaudette has his job and I don’t think he will give it back.

Love it! Seriousness with a touch of sarcasm

[Baggins]

20 hours ago, Pete M said:

would rather have 3 scoring lines than 2 checking lines and an extra PKer. Baer could score more than anyone on the bottom 6, if healthy.

I think our third line is capable of producing without Baertschi. The problem with a softer, more productive 3rd line is putting more defensive responsibilty on Horvat's line. Rather than splitting those duties between Horvat and the third. 

 

I like Baer but I don't see him as a bottom six on a team that's lacked in the physical side of the game for some time. There's just better options now.

[Tre Mac]

Just realized he went from a first liner to the minors within the organization in a span of a year.