Sven Baertschi | LW

[WeneedLumme]

I was shocked to hear Baer was waived, and would have been choked if he had been claimed. His skill level and productivity is top 6 and when Daniel retired Baer was our best left winger. But JB gambled that he could sneak him down, picked the time when his chances were the best, and won.

 

Now we have the guy who was our best left winger a year ago, a consistently better than half point per game player, as part of our AHL depth along with Goldy and Bulldog. What an amazing transformation, from what the team was like just a couple of years ago to having the kind of depth we have now.

Edited October 4, 2019 by WeneedLumme

[mll]

1 hour ago, WeneedLumme said:

I was shocked to hear Baer was waived, and would have been choked if he had been claimed. His skill level and productivity is top 6 and when Daniel retired Baer was our best left winger. But JB gambled that he could sneak him down, picked the time when his chances were the best, and won.

 

Now we have the guy who was our best left winger a year ago, a consistently better than half point per game player, as part of our AHL depth along with Goldy and Bulldog. What an amazing transformation, from what the team was like just a couple of years ago to having the kind of depth we have now.

Benning wanted him to be picked up. They only have 170K in cap space.  Benning also said they had enough skills and have better players.  He was trying to trade him in the summer.

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by mll

[mll]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sutter has scored 17 and 21 goals in his career. Jake got 15 last year and Leivo got 14. What exactly are you expecting from a 3rd line player?  A 20-25 goal scorer?  Those players are on the second line and get paid $5 million+ a year. 

 

And before you say Baertschi his top year was 18 goals so he’s not a 20 goal scorer either. 

Leivo got 14 playing top-6 with the team's best players and on PP1.  He produced at the same pace as Virtanen while getting all those top offensive assignments.  It's questionable whether he can maintain that pace playing lower in the lineup with lesser linemates - he does keep PP1 but he only had 4pts on the PP in 130 minutes last season.

P60 is a measure of scoring efficiency - Leivo (Vancouver time only) ranked 294th among Fs with more than 40 games.  It suggests that he was not particularly efficient in the minutes received. 

 

Sutter got his 17 goals as a Canuck playing in an offensive role - he was even playing wing to the Sedins for a while and was on PP1.  Benning brought him in because he thought he was a C2 stuck behind Crosby/Malkin and an upgrade to Bonino - Kuzma was even describing him as a formidable playmaker.  WD was using him as an offensive player.  Horvat was the checking line.  

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by mll

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Leivo got 14 playing top-6 with the team's best players and on PP1.  He produced at the same pace as Virtanen while getting all those top offensive assignments.  It's questionable whether he can maintain that pace playing lower in the lineup with lesser linemates - he does keep PP1 but he only had 4pts on the PP in 130 minutes last season.

P60 is a measure of scoring efficiency - Leivo (Vancouver time only) ranked 294th among Fs with more than 40 games.  It suggests that he was not particularly efficient in the minutes received. 

 

Sutter got his 17 goals as a Canuck playing in an offensive role - he was even playing wing to the Sedins for a while and was on PP1.  Benning brought him in because he thought he was a C2 stuck behind Crosby/Malkin and an upgrade to Bonino - Kuzma was even describing him as a formidable playmaker.  WD was using him as an offensive player.  Horvat was the checking line.  

 

You can say all of that about every player.  If Horvat is your 3rd line centre with no PP time is he going to get 25 goals and 60-70 points?  Of course not.  3rd line players don't normally hit 20-25 goals and 60 points because they don't get enough ice time and PP time to hit those numbers.  If Sutter is centering our 3rd line then his expectation should be 10-15 goals and 35-40 points.  If Virtanen or Leivo hit 15 goals that's a good year. 

 

Not sure I agree with all the talk about needing 3 scoring lines.  Which team actually has 3 scoring lines where guys on the 3rd line are getting 20+ goals and 50+ points?  The Stanley Cup Champions only had 3 forwards who cracked 50 points last year and one guy who would have if he had played a full season.  4 guys doesn't even make a top 6 nevermind a top 9.  Tampa Bay figured out the hard way you need more than scoring to win a Cup.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Elias Pettersson

[mll]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You can say all of that about every player.  If Horvat is your 3rd line centre with no PP time is he going to get 25 goals and 60-70 points?  Of course not.  3rd line players don't normally hit 20-25 goals and 60 points because they don't get enough ice time and PP time to hit those numbers.  If Sutter is centering our 3rd line then his expectation should be 10-15 goals and 35-40 points.  If Virtanen or Leivo hit 15 goals that's a good year. 

 

Not sure I agree with all the talk about needing 3 scoring lines.  Which team actually has 3 scoring lines where guys on the 3rd line are getting 20+ goals and 50+ points?  The Stanley Cup Champions only had 3 forwards who cracked 50 points last year and one guy who would have if he had played a full season.  4 guys doesn't even make a top 6 nevermind a top 9.  Tampa Bay figured out the hard way you need more than scoring to win a Cup.

Leivo was producing at a bottom-6 rate with top-6 opportunities.   He was a 0.37 player (like Virtanen) as a Canuck playing mostly with Pettersson-Boeser and on PP1 - that projects to 30pts over a full season.  It seems optimistic for him to reach 35pts with Sutter as his C instead of Pettersson. 

 

There are too many teams that are talking of 3 scoring lines and saying their 3rd line has to now be their 4th line to just ignore it.

 

Coaches like Hitchcock are saying you can't have a 4th line if you want to win.  Crawford/Boucher coming back from abroad a few years ago were commenting that the best teams now have their 3rd line as their 4th line.  Poile talks of needing production from all your lines - he talks of having finally 3 scoring lines with Turris at C3 which pushes Bonino to C4.  Bonino has the same role as Sutter/Beagle and was a +27 - his line significantly outscored opponents at 5v5.   Bonino was criticised for his defensive game but he still helped sway the balance in their favour by producing.

 

Most teams seem be trying to play defence by keeping possession in the offensive zone.  Even Hitchcock, who is known as a defensive coach, says that's how successful teams defend in the new NHL.  He says it's not necessarily about scoring but about where you spend the shift.  You have to be able to make plays to keep possession and force the other team to defend.

 

This shift to 3 scoring lines is probably also happening because there are more PMDs coming up through the draft.  It's no longer those big physical Ds who are going to clear the crease so teams want to limit the time they spend defending.

 

Pittsburgh probably started the trend with the HBK line.  Teams were focusing on Crosby/Malkin and the Bonino-Kessel line just kept on scoring.  Trotz admitted not knowing how to match up against them because they weren't expecting a 3rd scoring line.

 

The Canucks don't seem to have the skills to create 3 scoring lines.  They were 2nd in dump-in rates last season (mid-February) - that's not how you keep possession and force the other team to defend.   It also makes it more challenging to score.

 

Maybe having 2 checking lines is what will work for the Canucks.  The games still need to be played.

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by mll

[Elias Pettersson]

7 hours ago, mll said:

Leivo was producing at a bottom-6 rate with top-6 opportunities.   He was a 0.37 player (like Virtanen) as a Canuck playing mostly with Pettersson-Boeser and on PP1 - that projects to 30pts over a full season.  It seems optimistic for him to reach 35pts with Sutter as his C instead of Pettersson. 

 

There are too many teams that are talking of 3 scoring lines and saying their 3rd line has to now be their 4th line to just ignore it.

 

Coaches like Hitchcock are saying you can't have a 4th line if you want to win.  Crawford/Boucher coming back from abroad a few years ago were commenting that the best teams now have their 3rd line as their 4th line.  Poile talks of needing production from all your lines - he talks of having finally 3 scoring lines with Turris at C3 which pushes Bonino to C4.  Bonino has the same role as Sutter/Beagle and was a +27 - his line significantly outscored opponents at 5v5.   Bonino was criticised for his defensive game but he still helped sway the balance in their favour by producing.

 

Most teams seem be trying to play defence by keeping possession in the offensive zone.  Even Hitchcock, who is known as a defensive coach, says that's how successful teams defend in the new NHL.  He says it's not necessarily about scoring but about where you spend the shift.  You have to be able to make plays to keep possession and force the other team to defend.

 

This shift to 3 scoring lines is probably also happening because there are more PMDs coming up through the draft.  It's no longer those big physical Ds who are going to clear the crease so teams want to limit the time they spend defending.

 

Pittsburgh probably started the trend with the HBK line.  Teams were focusing on Crosby/Malkin and the Bonino-Kessel line just kept on scoring.  Trotz admitted not knowing how to match up against them because they weren't expecting a 3rd scoring line.

 

The Canucks don't seem to have the skills to create 3 scoring lines.  They were 2nd in dump-in rates last season (mid-February) - that's not how you keep possession and force the other team to defend.   It also makes it more challenging to score.

 

Maybe having 2 checking lines is what will work for the Canucks.  The games still need to be played.

 

I don't disagree with you on a lot of your points.  However the facts are still undeniable.  The Stanley Cup Champions won the Cup with only 3-4 forwards hitting 50+ points.  That's a fact.  So it doesn't matter what these other teams are doing.  You can go all the way with a hot goaltender and a big bruising defence.  The Hockey Gaud will be playing tomorrow.  Maybe he will take Sutter's spot on the 3rd line and produce more offence.  Maybe Virtanen will actually get motivated and hit somebody.  Lot's of games left to play.  Let's see what happens.

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

The most interesting line this season will be the formation of the 3rd Line.  I think it’s going to be the difference between the playoffs or missing them.  If the 3rd line doesn’t offer much offensive then the Canucks will not make the playoffs.  Plain and simple.

 

I’d personally like to see 

Baertschi.  Gaudette.  Sutter

 

The Canucks have started the season with 

Leivo. Sutter. Ericksson 

 

Other candidates during the season will be Virtanen, Roussel, Goldy, MacEwen. 

 

I just don’t understand why Baertschi was not given a chance to anchor an offensive 3rd line?  He can pass and shoot.  Him and Gaudette showed some chemistry together.  And if he gets injured again at least we have more depth this season.

 

I’ll be watching this 3rd line very closely this season.  I think the Canucks ability to build a competitive pro lineup is still very much up in the air.  The organizations confidence that they have turned a corner will have to be proven to us fans.  The only evidence we have had recently is that they are a bad team in the bottom 1/3 of the standings with bad 

luck in the draft lottery.  Big year for Travis and Jim.  I wish I was as confident as they seem to be.

 

[WeneedLumme]

17 hours ago, mll said:

Benning wanted him to be picked up. They only have 170K in cap space.  Benning also said they had enough skills and have better players.  He was trying to trade him in the summer.

 

He did, did he? So he was hoping to lose one of his few half-point plus per game players for nothing, rather than keeping him as depth for when the inevitable injuries occur? When did he say that? And what was he planning to do with that extra couple million cap hit savings that he would have if Baer was claimed?

[aGENT]

29 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

He did, did he? So he was hoping to lose one of his few half-point plus per game players for nothing, rather than keeping him as depth for when the inevitable injuries occur? When did he say that? And what was he planning to do with that extra couple million cap hit savings that he would have if Baer was claimed?

(Pssst....pretty sure Benning said the exact opposite actually) 

 

[mll]

5 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

He did, did he? So he was hoping to lose one of his few half-point plus per game players for nothing, rather than keeping him as depth for when the inevitable injuries occur? When did he say that? And what was he planning to do with that extra couple million cap hit savings that he would have if Baer was claimed?

 

They no cap space to recall Baertschi unless they use LTIR with Roussel - they have under 170K.  LTIR limits flexibility and the amount of cap space that can be banked - reason why teams try and avoid using it and even pay to move those contracts.  Fletcher in Minnesota thought you need some 2M in cap space to operate comfortably in a season with injuries/recalls.  

 

There are also performance bonuses to plan for to avoid a carry over to next season.  Dallas had 12M in players out long term but still have over 900K in bonus carry over on their books this season because they couldn't bank cap space with LTIR in use.  Pettersson and Hughes seem likely to hit their schedule A bonuses (2 x 850K).  Not sure Pettersson is quite yet a top-10 player in the league to hit the schedule B like he did last year by winning the Calder (2M).  Gaudette could also hit some of his bonuses (850K). 

 

Benning said he was trying to trade him and that they feel they have enough skills and have better players - it's just the evolution of the team.

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by mll

[mll]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I don't disagree with you on a lot of your points.  However the facts are still undeniable.  The Stanley Cup Champions won the Cup with only 3-4 forwards hitting 50+ points.  That's a fact.  So it doesn't matter what these other teams are doing.  You can go all the way with a hot goaltender and a big bruising defence.  The Hockey Gaud will be playing tomorrow.  Maybe he will take Sutter's spot on the 3rd line and produce more offence.  Maybe Virtanen will actually get motivated and hit somebody.  Lot's of games left to play.  Let's see what happens.

A scoring line does not have to be a line of 3 players hitting 50+.  It's more the principle of having offensive players rather than defensive ones on a 3rd line.  Bozak was C3 for StLouis.  Johansson-Coyle were the 3rd line for Boston.  Vegas is using Stastny as C3 and SJS Thorton.  

 

Blues GM Armstrong after winning the Cup says he still believes that the league is going towards skills and quick puck movement.  He says size remains true on D though.  

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by mll

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Baerstchi on going to Utica:

 

I just have to grind this out. I’m going to make the most of it. I know the coaching staff is supportive and want to get me up (to the NHL) as quickly as possible,” said Baertschi, who is set to make more than $3 million while playing in the AHL according to capfriendly.com. “I’m just trying to put in work and make myself a better player. But, I enjoy playing hockey. No matter where I’m at, I just want to go out there and play. At the end of the day, for me, it is to get back to NHL as quick as possible.”

Baertschi acknowledged he wants to be a good example for the team’s younger players.

“I think this is a great group guys of here,” Baertschi said.

https://www.uticaod.com/sports/20191008/baertschi-going-to-make-most-of-time-with-comets

[Hairy Kneel]

5 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Baerstchi on going to Utica:

 

 

 

https://www.uticaod.com/sports/20191008/baertschi-going-to-make-most-of-time-with-comets

Great attitude. Hope he comes back gunz a blazin'

[DownUndaCanuck]

I don't think he'll be in Utica very long. Maybe a short stint essentially for conditioning, he'll be scoring at a point per game pace and be up with the group as soon as an injury hits, and when it does he'll stick.

[canuktravella]

loving baertchi's great attitude I'm sure hell be back in nhl in next month I wish him the best

[86Viking]

Wish you all the best Sven, hope you have a good impact on the team and can help some of our key prospects like Lind and Gadj while your down there. Sure hope we see Schaller waived when Roussel is ready to go or even Motte. Then if JB can somehow find a taker for LE @50% retained for a conditional 7th or another player with a not so good contract we can bury in the A and bring you up.

 

I think for the long term success of the Canucks this season it would be beneficial to have Sven in Vancouver. It gives the coach great flexibility to shake up the lines to create some offense or a spark.

 

I hope Sven can make a good impact in Utica and force a call up and if/when he gets back he shows that he belongs and can be a solid player for us adding depth scoring and even more line flexibility 

[Nucker 67]

I'm not expecting Baertschi to be back. He's not a good fit for this team anymore IMO, and the Canucks now have depth. My guess is he gets traded to another team, in hopes he can get back into the league. Roussel will be back in a couple of months and Motte should join the team soon. I'm guessing that Schaller will then be waived. They can always recall him, and they have MacEwen as an option too.

[Ihatetomatoes]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

I'm not expecting Baertschi to be back. He's not a good fit for this team anymore IMO, and the Canucks now have depth. My guess is he gets traded to another team, in hopes he can get back into the league. Roussel will be back in a couple of months and Motte should join the team soon. I'm guessing that Schaller will then be waived. They can always recall him, and they have MacEwen as an option too.

Any team that has Leivo in their top 6 does not have enough depth for a guy like Baertchi. He'll be back

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Any team that has Leivo in their top 6 does not have enough depth for a guy like Baertchi. He'll be back

Agreed.  Leivo is a Jannik Hansen type player.  He's a bottom six guy, that moves up for a few games when injuries happen.  

[Bure_Pavel]

Any one know if the Visa's have been resolved, and when he likely debuts?