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Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

b3.

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RogersTowell Canucks Prospect

RogersTowell

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14 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

I don't expect Benning to hit a home run 100% of the time and nobody should. But watching a decent number of young players who were drafted after him outperform him to date hurts. 

I like the very balanced nature of your post.  It's a tone that is sadly lacking on cdc most of the time.  You may be right about Juolevi, or you may be wrong, and as you say time will tell.  I agree with you about Pettersson, but we may both be wrong.  He sure has been impressive this year so far, though.  Next training camp should be an interesting one.

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Phat Fingers Canucks First-Line

Phat Fingers

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15 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

The bolded is not true. The NHL-CHL rule didn't keep Juolevi out of the NHL, his play in training camp today. Guys like Provorov, Carlo, Girard, Chychrun, Sergachev, Mete, etc. all somehow managed to stay in the NHL recently even though they didn't have the AHL as an option. Every single one of those players was drafted below 5th overall as well. 

 

I know that development takes time. I know development is not linear.  I'm not trying to rush Juolevi. I have very little doubt he'll be a good, top-4 defenseman for us. 

 

But Juolevi's play this year does not allow us to realistically expect him to be at the level of someone like Werenski or Provorov. That is disappointing, at least for me, someone who wants to see the best young team possible. Juolevi seems to be more in the tier of Dumba/Nurse in terms of young defensemen, which is valuable, but a step down. There's no doubt that I would take a Werenski level player over a Dumba level one because that's what's best for the team and organization. 

 

For example, Pettersson seems to be at the opposite end of the spectrum. His numbers realistically project to a 60-70+ point forward who will be deadly on the powerplay. He's also tracking to make the NHL in his draft +2 year. That allows me to put a lot more faith in Pettersson than I do with Juolevi. 

 

I don't expect Benning to hit a home run 100% of the time and nobody should. But watching a decent number of young players who were drafted after him outperform him to date hurts. 

So had OJ been able to go to the AHL this year, your saying he would have not been brought up at all to the NHL this season?  

 

He was too good for the CHL but not ready for the NHL.  But due to the CHL agreement, he had to go to europe to start his pro career. 

 

Yeah he struggled to to make an impact at camp after adding at least 15 lbs of weight. This has been hacked to death. 

 

To say that had OJ couldn't break into the NHL this year is disingenuous. We all are aware of the challenges that affects prospects that are physically or mentally beyond the CHL level, but cannot play in the AHL. 

 

The guys you listed two are exceptional defenders in Provorov and Werenski. The other guys were much more physical developed that OJ, something we all have talked about ad nauseum.  Added to that they have all struggled after initial success and have struggled to stay in the lineup. 

 

OJ has made huge strides this year and has added to his strength enough to be able

to handle NHL minutes. He needs more time to go up and down between the AHL. What likely he would have this year 

 

OJ did the right thing by going to Ligia. His learning curve will be shortened next year. I expect he will be way better prepared for next camp. 

Edited by Eastcoast meets Westcoast
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Noble 6 Canucks Third-Line

Noble 6

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3 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

So had OJ been able to go to the AHL this year, your saying he would have not been brought up at all to the NHL this season?  

 

He was too good for the CHL but not ready for the NHL.  But due to the CHL agreement, he had to go to europe to start his pro career. 

 

Yeah he struggled to to make an impact at camp after adding at least 15 lbs of weight. This has been hacked to death. 

 

To say that had OJ couldn't break into the NHL this year is disingenuous. We all are aware of the challenges that affects prospects that are physically or mentally beyond the CHL level, but cannot play in the AHL. 

 

The guys you listed two are exceptional defenders in Provorov and Werenski. The other guys were much more physical developed that OJ, something we all have talked about ad nauseum.  Added to that they have all struggled after initial success and have struggled to stay in the lineup. 

 

OJ has made huge strides this year and has added to his strength enough to be able

to handle NHL minutes. He needs more time to go up and down between the AHL. What likely he would have this year 

 

OJ did the right thing by going to Ligia. His learning curve will be shortened next year. I expect he will be way better prepared for next camp. 

 

Did you read my post? That's not what I said at all. Why are you bringing up hypothetical situations for something that has already happened?

 

Juolevi was not good enough for the NHL out of training camp last year. If Juolevi forced himself into a spot in the NHL, a spot would've been created for him as evidenced by the number of young CHL defensemen who cracked defense cores much better than a bottom-5 team. Benning also specifically said that he would make room for anyone that earned it. Being eligible for the AHL has nothing to do with that. Even in this hypothetical scenario where Juolevi would've been able to play in the AHL, having him come up for stretches of time without sticking with the big club doesn't say much. For example, a guy like Chabot (about a year older but AHL eligible this year) was assigned to the AHL at the start of the year, but then forced himself onto the big club in Ottawa after his first call up. Stetcher was similar, although much older. Unless Juolevi was able to do that, it wouldn't mean much. Yes the development in the AHL would've been nice, but it wasn't possible for us or anyone else so we can't use that as an excuse.

 

I am aware of the physical and mental challenges of jumping from the CHL to the NHL. Juolevi was likely above the CHL level, but not at the NHL level. There are players that have made that jump recently as I listed and there are players that haven't. Being a CHL player who's too good for that league but not good enough for the NHL is not a problem that is somehow exclusive to this situation or this team. It happened with Virtanen. I'd like to see Gaudette in the AHL. Arizona likely would've preferred Strome to have been in the AHL earlier. Kyrou, Raddysh, Pu, Mcleod, Abromov, Bean, Stanley, Jones, Steel, etc. are all players who's big clubs would probably like them to be in the AHL, but the agreement prevents them from doing so. Using that argument to make Juolevi's case a unique one simply isn't valid. 

 

Girard: 5'9, 165lbs

Mete: 5'10, 165 lbs

Provorov: 6'1, 200lbs

Juolevi: 6'2, 185 lbs

 

Purely size doesn't seem to be a legitimate argument either. Girard and Mete are both tiny. Saying Juolevi was too small at around 6'1 and 170-175lbs doesn't add up. But the one thing that those three guys have that Juolevi doesn't is high end skating ability. They are all fast in corners and have great edgework. Given that Juolevi put on about 15 lbs of weight (as you said), he sacrificed some of that. Now we're just waiting mainly for his agility to catch up to his size. The other defensemen I listed have more physical tools, but had questions about their IQ, which is an area that Juolevi was said to be among the elite. And out of the 6 defensemen I mentioned, Sergachev is the only one that's been scratched somewhat often. Even then, Sergachev was scratched to allow him to regroup at the NHL level, whereas Juolevi was scratched to regroup at the Finnish league level. 

 

Juolevi did the right thing by going to the Finnish league. He's playing against men and should be more prepared for next years' training camp and to handle NHL minutes. But do you know what's better than having a prospect preparing to play NHL minutes? A prospect proving he can play NHL minutes. His learning curve hasn't been shortened by a year, it's probably on the same pace as it's always been and he's tracking as a steady, top-4 defenseman for us. 

 

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SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Canucks Franchise Player

SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

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18 minutes ago, Nigerian said:

Rick: Hello? 

Finland: Hi it’s Finland 

Rick: How’s Juolevi? 

Finland: 1st pairing today. 

Rick: That’s Progress 

Dhaliwal is so lucky. Finland never calls me anymore. I don’t really know what happened. I used to row out on Lake Goldajärvi every night so I could gaze longingly at her beautiful shores. But then Sweden and Norway told me I was being creepy and had to leave. Now only Russia will hang out with me. We spend most of our time staring menacingly at Finland from the woods.

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Noble 6 Canucks Third-Line

Noble 6

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10 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Dhaliwal is so lucky. Finland never calls me anymore. I don’t really know what happened. I used to row out on Lake Goldajärvi every night so I could gaze longingly at her beautiful shores. But then Sweden and Norway told me I was being creepy and had to leave. Now only Russia will hang out with me. We spend most of our time staring menacingly at Finland from the woods.

Remembering the Winter War :lol:

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