Camel Toe Drag Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, SingleThorn said: True. Boston, especially at forward, are way ahead of us. Bergeron, Krejci and Marchand give them way more leeway. On defence, I'm a little surprised that they have done so well. Carlo and McAvoy are surprisingly good. I think we would crash and burn with 6 rookies next year. With the way the NHL is going teams windows are mostly going to be open when their stars are still on their ELC's. Teams won't be able to afford all their young studs unless they take discounts of course. In our case, our window for makings a legitimate cup run might be be within the next 3 years when Gaudette, EP, Juolevi and whomever else we decide to bring on to the roster make the team. I view it as an advantage to have a youth injection on a contender for fiscal and physiological reasons.This is of course if the team has a solid supporting cast in place. The only piece I feel we don't have to put us on he contending path is a true 28-30 min all situations D-man. After that I think we're laughing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Vanuckles said: You just got included in the post, but I meant to include a reply to your quote. substitute Werenski and Provorov with Nurse and Dumba... Nurse and Dumba aren't really on the same level as the other two. They are good top-4 defensemen, but I would take either of the other two ahead of them all day. Juolevi is probably going to end up closer to Nurse/Dumba in terms of value than Werenski/Provorov. That's still a very useful and valuable piece to have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Nurse and Dumba aren't really on the same level as the other two. They are good top-4 defensemen, but I would take either of the other two ahead of them all day. Juolevi is probably going to end up closer to Nurse/Dumba in terms of value than Werenski/Provorov. That's still a very useful and valuable piece to have. Or Juiolevi could become the next Nic Lidstrom, who (also BTW) matured a bit later than many of his peers. The qualities that Juiolivi has, makes his ceiling higher than the players you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Alflives said: Or Juiolevi could become the next Nic Lidstrom, who (also BTW) matured a bit later than many of his peers. The qualities that Juiolivi has, makes his ceiling higher than the players you mentioned. Yea okay Juolevi isn't going to become Lidstrom, you know the best dman to ever play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Camel Toe Drag said: With the way the NHL is going teams windows are mostly going to be open when their stars are still on their ELC's. Teams won't be able to afford all their young studs unless they take discounts of course. In our case, our window for makings a legitimate cup run might be be within the next 3 years when Gaudette, EP, Juolevi and whomever else we decide to bring on to the roster make the team. I view it as an advantage to have a youth injection on a contender for fiscal and physiological reasons.This is of course if the team has a solid supporting cast in place. The only piece I feel we don't have to put us on he contending path is a true 28-30 min all situations D-man. After that I think we're laughing. That's only true if you draft generational (Crosby, OV) or super-elite talent (Malkin, Matthews, etc.) and, event then, most young teams start competing for the playoffs when their star talent are already finished their ELCs. Contenders usually benefit from ELCs by fitting them into a situation where they are already isolated with talent and are able to impact the team on a below-value contract. That's not the case with the Canucks. The young players are the only talent here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 4 hours ago, SingleThorn said: I think that JB has a huge issue with when our deep list of NHL bound prospects actually play in the NHL. Anything more than 2 or 3 in any one year might be too hard on the team. Imagine 6 prospects arriving at the same time ! Exciting, but not a rebuild positive. OJ's arrival might be dependent on how many other prospects make the 2018/ 19 roster. Next year, we will likely see Pettersson, Gaudette, Demko and Juolevi make the team. No one else has a real chance, unless we draft Dahlin, Svechnikov or Zadina. That's a significant but not overwhelming injection of youth. There's a likelyhood they start OJ in the AHL but I don't think it will be because there are already too many rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Nurse and Dumba aren't really on the same level as the other two. They are good top-4 defensemen, but I would take either of the other two ahead of them all day. Juolevi is probably going to end up closer to Nurse/Dumba in terms of value than Werenski/Provorov. That's still a very useful and valuable piece to have. Why do you say that? Just based on his development so far? Also, Nurse and Dumba are drastically different players, who will Juolevi end up closer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 20 minutes ago, nowhereman said: Next year, we will likely see Pettersson, Gaudette, Demko and Juolevi make the team. No one else has a real chance, unless we draft Dahlin, Svechnikov or Zadina. That's a significant but not overwhelming injection of youth. There's a likelyhood they start OJ in the AHL but I don't think it will be because there are already too many rookies. I hope we don't see Demko for another 2 year's, but other than that it looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 36 minutes ago, peaches5 said: Yea okay Juolevi isn't going to become Lidstrom, you know the best dman to ever play the game. The point is, Juiolevi is still maturing both physically and mentally, while developing his game. His ceiling (though) is higher than the players you mentioned. He may not reach his ceiling, that's true. However, if he does get to be the player we expected when drafted, then we have a better Dman than any other from that draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Vanuckles said: Why do you say that? Just based on his development so far? Also, Nurse and Dumba are drastically different players, who will Juolevi end up closer to? I'd say it's based on the fact Werenski and Provorov are certified top pairing defensemen on good teams in the NHL by age 20. Juolevi is a certified top-4 in Liiga. There's a jump between those two spots and I wouldn't say the chances are high that Juolevi makes up all that ground. If he does, I'll be beyond thrilled. I didn't mean to use Nurse and Dumba as playstyle comparisons to Juolevi, but as value comparables. Those two can play effectively in pretty much any teams top-4, which is the level of impact I can realistically see Juolevi having. Obviously Nurse is more physical. Dumba is smaller and more offensive. Juolevi can primarily be a defensive defenseman who can also play in the offensive zone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CeeBee51 Posted February 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, peaches5 said: Yea okay Juolevi isn't going to become Lidstrom, you know the best dman to ever play the game. Robert Gordon Orr says hello 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 On 2/23/2018 at 5:06 PM, Horvat is a Boss said: I'd say it's based on the fact Werenski and Provorov are certified top pairing defensemen on good teams in the NHL by age 20. Juolevi is a certified top-4 in Liiga. There's a jump between those two spots and I wouldn't say the chances are high that Juolevi makes up all that ground. If he does, I'll be beyond thrilled. I didn't mean to use Nurse and Dumba as playstyle comparisons to Juolevi, but as value comparables. Those two can play effectively in pretty much any teams top-4, which is the level of impact I can realistically see Juolevi having. Obviously Nurse is more physical. Dumba is smaller and more offensive. Juolevi can primarily be a defensive defenseman who can also play in the offensive zone. Juolevi has not played a game in the NHL yet... We don't know how well he'll do in his first season so let's just wait and see before deciding what his ceiling is. Plus, Werenski and Provorov could easily take steps backwards just as Dumba and Nurse could keep improving. We don't know where any of these players will end up. Dumba could turn into a #1 Dman, and Nurse could find an offensive touch enough to be used on the PP where he could turn into a 40 point Dman. Development is more important than drafting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Vanuckles said: Juolevi has not played a game in the NHL yet... We don't know how well he'll do in his first season so let's just wait and see before deciding what his ceiling is. Plus, Werenski and Provorov could easily take steps backwards just as Dumba and Nurse could keep improving. We don't know where any of these players will end up. Dumba could turn into a #1 Dman, and Nurse could find an offensive touch enough to be used on the PP where he could turn into a 40 point Dman. Development is more important than drafting. "...which is the level of impact I can realistically see Juolevi having." Not: "...which is the level of impact Juolevi will have." Obviously there's always a chance something different than normal can happen when talking about young players, I just wouldn't hold my breath on Juolevi immediately hitting that level. If we never played the percentages, we could never ever ever make a player comparison ever again because there's always a chance that player "X" could turn out better than player "Y" even if signs point to that not being the case. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Owl Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/23/2018 at 12:21 PM, peaches5 said: Yea okay Juolevi isn't going to become Lidstrom, you know the best dman to ever play the game. Some people think Bobby Orr was pretty good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2018-02-23 at 5:06 PM, Horvat is a Boss said: I'd say it's based on the fact Werenski and Provorov are certified top pairing defensemen on good teams in the NHL by age 20. Juolevi is a certified top-4 in Liiga. There's a jump between those two spots and I wouldn't say the chances are high that Juolevi makes up all that ground. If he does, I'll be beyond thrilled. I didn't mean to use Nurse and Dumba as playstyle comparisons to Juolevi, but as value comparables. Those two can play effectively in pretty much any teams top-4, which is the level of impact I can realistically see Juolevi having. Obviously Nurse is more physical. Dumba is smaller and more offensive. Juolevi can primarily be a defensive defenseman who can also play in the offensive zone. The only reason OJ didn’t make the NHL for at least a few games this year was that it was NHL or CHL in NA. Had he played in Utica this year, he likely would have been called up for some games here or there. As for his use in Ligia. Done really well at the start and faded after the WJC. That and his team shortened its bench going full WD and playing it’s vets more. Great learning year complete with hard knocks giving him plenty of time to learn how to be a pro. Really glad Salo has been spending time with him. Couldn’t learn from a better guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 15 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said: "...which is the level of impact I can realistically see Juolevi having." Not: "...which is the level of impact Juolevi will have." Obviously there's always a chance something different than normal can happen when talking about young players, I just wouldn't hold my breath on Juolevi immediately hitting that level. If we never played the percentages, we could never ever ever make a player comparison ever again because there's always a chance that player "X" could turn out better than player "Y" even if signs point to that not being the case. Alright fair enough +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/23/2018 at 12:21 PM, peaches5 said: Yea okay Juolevi isn't going to become Lidstrom, you know the best dman to ever play the game. The best who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 26 minutes ago, Warhippy said: The best who? Lidstrom was better than Orr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Just now, peaches5 said: Lidstrom was better than Orr. different eras, and different players. Some would argue Harvey was better than both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Alflives said: different eras, and different players. Some would argue Harvey was better than both. Lidstrom played 20 years in the NHL Orr played 10. 10 years of Orr or 20 years of Lidstrom? You're out of your mind to choose Orr over Lidstrom. Even with everything even with how much better the NHL players were in the Lidstrom Era, Lidstrom was far better than Orr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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