2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017

[R35Godz1lla]

21 minutes ago, Harvey Spector said:

Fair enough.  I heard he broke his collar bone twice not once, among other injuries.  I still remember when the Canucks drafted J.J. Daigneault 10th overall in 1984.  I still remember watching him on TV going up to the podium "on crutches"...  

 

It's safe to say Daigneault did not have much success with the Canucks, although he did manage to salvage somewhat of a career playing in Montreal...

He did indeed break his collar bone twice, Doctors even told him after the first break that it was a fluke accident that would never happen again lol.

 

As I said, not being in the Medical field, nor knowing details about Patrick that NHL Teams should be able to gather on him prior to the draft I am not sure if I would take him at #1 over Hischier, if we are in the #2 slot and he is there, yes, pick him and run, run strait to the packing supply store and buy a pallet of bubble wrap  .

[Vinny in Vancouver]

58 minutes ago, Harvey Spector said:

I never once mentioned his attitude or work ethic.  I'm sure he's as solid as they come as far as that is concerned given his family background.  My concern is strictly with his injury history which cannot be "hidden" or misinformed in any way.  It's all out there for anyone to see.  The fact that he was playing hurt as you say makes it even worse as it shows he wasn't even fully recovered from his latest injury and had to miss the playoffs because of it.

 

When a guy gets major injuries at 13 and keeps getting them at 18 it IS a concern.  He hasn't even hit the big show yet where he will be getting hit by 220 pound men, not boys.  He may very well have the best character in the draft and is a fighter and leader, but if he is on the shelf every year because of another injury and you take him #1 or #2 overall then you are going to have a problem as an organization.

I get the injury concern, but I also think that our team doctors will do a good job with this so I'm personally going to rely on their suggestion. My biggest concern with all of the injury talk is if we do get lucky and draft Nolan Patrick, because of all the posts here where people are acting like doctors (without even seeing his medical report), you'll all of a sudden get a lot of posters in this forum ready to crucify the pick so instead of the pick being a ray of hope, it ends up being unreasonably bashed. In terms of risk and reward, the way I see this is that outside of injury concerns, guys like Button, McKenzie, etc. think he's completely deserving of being the number 1 pick. His upside is very high. The only risk is really his injury, but imho, that can be de-risked by having good doctors.

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

I get the injury concern, but I also think that our team doctors will do a good job with this so I'm personally going to rely on their suggestion. My biggest concern with all of the injury talk is if we do get lucky and draft Nolan Patrick, because of all the posts here where people are acting like doctors (without even seeing his medical report), you'll all of a sudden get a lot of posters in this forum ready to crucify the pick so instead of the pick being a ray of hope, it ends up being unreasonably bashed. In terms of risk and reward, the way I see this is that outside of injury concerns, guys like Button, McKenzie, etc. think he's completely deserving of being the number 1 pick. His upside is very high. The only risk is really his injury, but imho, that can be de-risked by having good doctors.

I'm not so convinced that the Canuck medical staff is in the top 15 in the league, I'd like Trev and Jim to do a very thorough review of both the doctors, therapists and training staff.

[sharbinder]

Canada lost 6-3 to Finland, Glass had no points.

However this Kristian Vesalainen fellow who has fallen throughout the year it putting up 6 goals/11 points in 4 games so far.

Also he only put up 1 less point in 4 more games than William Nylander in his draft year. Big body 6'3 209 lbs.

[Noble 6]

3 hours ago, Scruffy05 said:

Haven't seen him play but his stat line looks atrocious...

 

Yeah it doesn't look very good at all. It looks like he could drop out of the top 10 based on this tournament. 

[messier's_elbow]

49 minutes ago, J.R. said:

All I'm saying is that with no consensus from 3-10, I'd not be surprised if he fell to 6 or even 7 depending on which teams fall where after the lotto. I also wouldn't be surprised if that's approximately where the Canucks have him on their own list.

 

He's a very good player and a likely safe pick. But he's also lower risk/lower reward. IMO he tops out as a good 2C/W. That's great and all but we need some higher ceiling players. IMO, we're swinging for fences this draft.

 

Hmmm ok that's your opinion. Same things were said about Bo and now he's our pride and joy.

[messier's_elbow]

2 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Yeah it doesn't look very good at all. It looks like he could drop out of the top 10 based on this tournament. 

People saying they would take Liljgren 3rd overall make me laugh. 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

Hmmm ok that's your opinion. Same things were said about Bo and now he's our pride and joy.

I love Bo but he's a REALLY good 2C/ok 1C. IMO they're aiming higher this draft.

Edited April 18, 2017 by J.R.

[missioncanucksfan]

2 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

Hmmm ok that's your opinion. Same things were said about Bo and now he's our pride and joy.

Oh there are alot of posters here with crow in their mouths from their preference of Nichushkin after he scored his 9 goals while Bo stayed in London.

[Luckylarry]

3 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I love Bo but he's a REALLY good 2C/ok 1C. IMO they're aiming higher this draft.

Which of the guys this draft will be 'higher' centers than Bo?  Middlestadt?

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Luckylarry said:

Which of the guys this draft will be 'higher' centers than Bo?  Middlestadt?

We're talking predicted ceilings here, I'm not saying for sure that anyone WILL be anything.

 

I'd say that Patrick, Hischier, Glass, Mittelstadt, Necas and Suzuki all have higher ceilings. Albeit the latter half also have higher risk. Pettersson I'd probably put loosely on par for ceiling with Vilardi but again, higher risk.

[Luckylarry]

Just now, J.R. said:

We're talking predicted ceilings here, I'm not saying for sure that anyone WILL be anything.

 

I'd say that Patrick, Hischier, Glass, Mittelstadt, Necas and Suzuki all have higher ceilings. Albeit the latter half also have higher risk. Pettersson I'd probably put loosely on par for ceiling with Vilardi but again, higher risk.

I really liked the Henrik and Kesler combination, with Malholtra in the three spot.  We have Bo and Sutter for 2 and 3 looking like they are good fits in those roles.  We really need that elite number one, like Henrik used to be.  Is the order you listed the order you think best to draft in hopes of getting that number one center?

[aGENT]

Just now, Luckylarry said:

I really liked the Henrik and Kesler combination, with Malholtra in the three spot.  We have Bo and Sutter for 2 and 3 looking like they are good fits in those roles.  We really need that elite number one, like Henrik used to be.  Is the order you listed the order you think best to draft in hopes of getting that number one center?

That's probably the order I'd draft them in. Suzuki, Necas or Mittel could all end up being one of, or the best, C's from the draft long term as they're VERY skilled .But they all carry more risk than the others. 

[R35Godz1lla]

6 minutes ago, J.R. said:

That's probably the order I'd draft them in. Suzuki, Necas or Mittel could all end up being one of, or the best, C's from the draft long term as they're VERY skilled .But they all carry more risk than the others. 

It's what people seem to ignore about the draft, potential and skill don't always equal results. Its not a linear equation. What one scout sees in a player 5 other may not.

 

Sometimes you see a pick bust and you have to wonder what the team that drafted him ever thought they could get out of said player. The reverse is also true when a team goes off board and ends up with a fantastic player, it often means a scout thought the player had unrealized potential and that the risk warranted the possible reward.

 

With that said picks that are the concencus for their position sometimes don't materialize either. Looking at you Yakupov, now granted he was always labelled a week #1 pick, but he still had lots of "potential" .

 

I think people want to simplify the process of drafting and player development as it makes them feel smarter when a  situation like Virtanen's delayed progression happens. Virtanen has all the tools to be an extremely dominant force for our team and if he is ever able to put it all together, he will be every bit as valuable as a Ehlers or a Nylander.

 

Every draft contains players capable of putting up points despite their size, not every draft contains a player with the size & potential of Virtanen. Sometimes you have to take the risk for the possible reward. It's how many times you take that risk that can decide if you legacy as GM is either a positive one or a negative one.

[Bobby_Lu1ngo]

18 minutes ago, J.R. said:

That's probably the order I'd draft them in. Suzuki, Necas or Mittel could all end up being one of, or the best, C's from the draft long term as they're VERY skilled .But they all carry more risk than the others. 

Skillee players are always considered more risky than meat and potato guys because people wonder if the skill will translate to a pro game.

 

Now a days its a speed and skill game. Its less of a concern for me now. The same was said of ehlers and nylander which is why virtanen was the pick. This draft we need to replace skill and take our chances.

[Blömqvist]

On 4/8/2017 at 8:28 PM, Blömqvist said:

Grant McCagg's scouting service Recrutes' take on Miro Heiskanen:

 

"No other defenceman combines smarts, poise and mobility in such a complete package. There is little to dislike about his potential other than lack of size. He is a viable candidate to be a top-two NHL defenceman who can play any role. Tough to beat one-on-one thanks to his elite agility and quickness…a natural, smooth skater.

Oct. 15, 2016 – May be the best skater in the draft. He could be a top-ten guy. 

Jan 4, 2017 – Great feet. He’s the real deal. Very poised, smart…has some offensive upside too. Knows how to find lanes, good passer on the power play but they have him paired with the wrong guy in Saarijarvi instead of Valimaki…who can shoot. He should have had lots of assists at the World Juniors.

Mar. 27, 2017 – Great skater, thinks the game very well, He transitions the puck better than anyone in the draft, thinks quick and executes well. He defends well, he’s got good gap control. He’s a better skater than Juolevi and can execute quicker than Juolevi. Reminds me some of Duncan Keith.

Apr. 5 2017 – just a good two-way dman..he’s got the great wheels so he can log a lot of minutes, skating is not taxing on him. He’s one of those guys. I’d like to see a little more offence but he might have it…because he’s got the skill and the vision…he can make plays…I think it’s just about getting into a role on a team where he could develop into more of an offensive type of guy. I certainly like his two-way game. He’s good in his own zone…He’s pretty good defensively, good tick, gets his body involved. When he get the puck he can move it out. He’s got that good stick, he can stay with guys. He’s not shy or timid.

Makar vs. Heiskanen – I don’t know. Makar is so dynamic in one area of the game. but you don’t know about the defence. Heiskanen is good in both areas..maybe not as dynamic but . you can try to hit a home run or a double. For me going with Heiskanen that’s the the safest way to go…You’re not wrong…but it definitely wouldn’t shock me to see the other guy go ahead."

https://recrutes.ca/profile/miro-heiskanen/

 

 

On 4/8/2017 at 8:37 PM, funkyfresh said:

He's number one dman in the draft for me. Still only 17 and he battles hard against men, not afraid of physicality and is the instigater a lot of times. Smooth skater. Handles forecheck with poise. Knows when to jump up and when to stay back; isn't always trying to force plays like Liljegren. Safe pick with lots of upside.

 

Miro Heiskanen stats:

10 points (5+5) in 37 Liiga regular season games *note* Liiga is the top Finnish men's league, where he regularly plays over 20 minutes/game as a 17 year old

3 points (0+3) in 8 Liiga playoff games

3 points (0+3) in 6 Champions Hockey League games *note* Champions Hockey League is a tournament featuring the top teams across Europe

8 points (1+7) in 4 U18 games

 

@funkyfresh I wasn't so sure if he was going to be the top dman this draft because I didn't really know of his offensive ceiling. IMO he's now pushing for the best defenseman of the draft. Scouts were wanting him to develop his offensive game further and he puts up 8 points in 4 U18 games. With a very late birthday (July 18) it's plausible that he has very good draft+1 year compared to other prospects with earlier birthdays. The fact that he plays in the Liiga is good as he can come over to play in the AHL as soon as next season, I believe.

 

I was hoping we could pick up a mid-1st and draft him, but with his recent U18 play has his stock risen high enough to make the top 10? Does he get picked over Liljegren and Makar?

Edited April 18, 2017 by Blömqvist

[Vinny in Vancouver]

59 minutes ago, sharbinder said:

Canada lost 6-3 to Finland, Glass had no points.

However this Kristian Vesalainen fellow who has fallen throughout the year it putting up 6 goals/11 points in 4 games so far.

Also he only put up 1 less point in 4 more games than William Nylander in his draft year. Big body 6'3 209 lbs.

Vesalainen has been putting on a show. He is actually quite skilled and has size. The biggest knock on him this year is why he wasn't putting up the huge numbers that everyone was expecting. Based on this tournament, he's probably a lottery pick now. But if he ever drops in the second round, we should nab him.

[Outsiders]

Anyone of Glass,Mittlestadt,Patrick, Hisicher, Vilardi, Necas I would be fine with all I feel will be good players

[Noble 6]

46 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

People saying they would take Liljgren 3rd overall make me laugh. 

 

I want to know if his terrible statline is a product of him being disinterested or lazy (which isn't a good thing, but can be improved rather easily), having terrible luck or actually regressing. It doesn't look like anyone has been watching him here though to offer any insight. The raw skills and talent that a lot of people see are possibly worthy of a top 3 pick, but not if he's going to regress afterwards. 

 

4 minutes ago, Blömqvist said:

 

 

Miro Heiskanen stats:

10 points (5+5) in 37 Liiga regular season games *note* Liiga is the top Finnish men's league, where he regularly plays over 20 minutes/game as a 17 year old

3 points (0+3) in 8 Liiga playoff games

3 points (0+3) in 6 Champions Hockey League games *note* Champions Hockey League is a tournament featuring the top teams across Europe

8 points (1+7) in 4 U18 games

 

@funkyfresh I wasn't so sure if he was going to be the top dman this draft because I didn't really know of his offensive ceiling. IMO he's now pushing for the best defenseman of the draft. Scouts were wanting him to develop his offensive game further and he puts up 8 points in 4 U18 games. With a very late birthday (July 18) it's plausible that he has very good draft+1 year compared to other prospects with earlier birthdays. The fact that he plays in the Liiga is good as he can come over to play in the AHL as soon as next season, I believe.

 

Does he make the top 10? Does he get picked over Liljegren and Makar?

 

I didn't know anything about this guy until you provided some information a while ago. He sounds like he is trending upwards and climbing a lot of rankings fast. Based on what you said about him playing on a top men's team and playing regular minutes while being a younger player, it sounds like his game should be highly transferable to the NHL. I wouldn't be upset with him at all if we are outside the top 2 if Benning thinks he will be a great top 4 guy and takes him over some centers who he thinks will be 2C's. I don't think that's likely, but I wouldn't be opposed. 

 

The only thing would be that we have a similar player in Juolevi, as well as a crowded pool on defense of players that could be #4's or below. I don't think he'll be better than Juolevi and he might not turn out better than Hutton or Tryamkin on the left side. He could turn into a very valuable trade chip though or free up someone else. Of course you can never have too many good defenseman. 

 

 

[messier's_elbow]

58 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I love Bo but he's a REALLY good 2C/ok 1C. IMO they're aiming higher this draft.

Setting yourself up for disappointment bro. Most likely the 5th pick in a weaker draft. Will be a good player, but if our pick turns out to be a good 2C that's a win in my eyes.