TSN's assessment. Agree or Disagree?

[mediahack]

This analysis is based off two key fallacies. The first one is that the key to winning is losing. The second is that Corsi is the only determining factor when building a hockey team.

The so called information age is both a blessing and a curse. On one hand you do have more information at your fingertips. On the other hand it has created an era of ignorant morons who think they know everything because they can regurgitate a few stats.

"A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"

[Nucks89]

On 7/1/2016 at 7:07 PM, Pears said:

They forget we were a playoff team before we got slaughtered by injuries. 

Making the playoffs and getting beat in round one isn't an accomplishment. This ownership is strictly focused on playoff revenue and ensuring fans keep interested. Unfortunately the Canucks are losing fans and they will be in the 10-12 no man's land if this "plan" continues. 

 

Bottom line is this franchise is in big trouble. Meddling owners, no great prospects, older vets. Fans are already speaking with their wallets. Why not bottom out a few years and re stock? 

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, Nucks89 said:

Making the playoffs and getting beat in round one isn't an accomplishment. This ownership is strictly focused on playoff revenue and ensuring fans keep interested. Unfortunately the Canucks are losing fans and they will be in the 10-12 no man's land if this "plan" continues. 

 

Bottom line is this franchise is in big trouble. Meddling owners, no great prospects, older vets. Fans are already speaking with their wallets. Why not bottom out a few years and re stock? 

It's more of an accomplishment than not doing it.

[Pears]

15 minutes ago, Nucks89 said:

Making the playoffs and getting beat in round one isn't an accomplishment. This ownership is strictly focused on playoff revenue and ensuring fans keep interested. Unfortunately the Canucks are losing fans and they will be in the 10-12 no man's land if this "plan" continues. 

 

Bottom line is this franchise is in big trouble. Meddling owners, no great prospects, older vets. Fans are already speaking with their wallets. Why not bottom out a few years and re stock? 

Lol

[NEON.KNEE]

47 minutes ago, Pears said:

Lol

 

CANUCK FANS ARE THE ABSOLUTE WORST.

 

I went to my first Canucks game as a little kid in 1989...I have been posting on this board since 2003 and I have absolutely had it with some of the fans of this team... We have never had better prospects, and in such abundance than we do right now.

Cannot wait for Boeser, Demko, Juolevi and I think Brisebois is going to be a dark horse that will surpirse alot of people!

[CanadianRugby]

17 minutes ago, NEON.KNEE said:

CANUCK FANS ARE THE ABSOLUTE WORST.

 

I went to my first Canucks game as a little kid in 1989...I have been posting on this board since 2003 and I have absolutely had it with some of the fans of this team... We have never had better prospects, and in such abundance than we do right now.

Cannot wait for Boeser, Demko, Juolevi and I think Brisebois is going to be a dark horse that will surpirse alot of people!

[WeneedLumme]

1 hour ago, Nucks89 said:

Making the playoffs and getting beat in round one isn't an accomplishment. This ownership is strictly focused on playoff revenue and ensuring fans keep interested. Unfortunately the Canucks are losing fans and they will be in the 10-12 no man's land if this "plan" continues. 

 

Bottom line is this franchise is in big trouble. Meddling owners, no great prospects, older vets. Fans are already speaking with their wallets. Why not bottom out a few years and re stock? 

Yes, how unreasonable of the owners to want to keep their fans interested. Canucks are losing fans, so the solution is to bottom out for a few years. Yeah, that will certainly help to get their fans back. I'm guessing that you either teach business or run a sports franchise. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

[Nucks89]

7 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

Yes, how unreasonable of the owners to want to keep their fans interested. Canucks are losing fans, so the solution is to bottom out for a few years. Yeah, that will certainly help to get their fans back. I'm guessing that you either teach business or run a sports franchise. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

By keeping fans "interested" they are harming the franchise more than helping. They are delaying an inevitable rebuild and treading water in the meantime. The owners would make back any lost money if or when this team are cup contenders. 

[wai_lai416]

 

32 minutes ago, NEON.KNEE said:

CANUCK FANS ARE THE ABSOLUTE WORST.

 

I went to my first Canucks game as a little kid in 1989...I have been posting on this board since 2003 and I have absolutely had it with some of the fans of this team... We have never had better prospects, and in such abundance than we do right now.

Cannot wait for Boeser, Demko, Juolevi and I think Brisebois is going to be a dark horse that will surpirse alot of people!

i dunno.. the Sedins and Kesler in 2000s seems to be better than whatever prospect we have now.. i'll agree we have a decent prospect pool atm but it's far from abundance and still lacking in the really high end skill category... Boeser and demko looks to be progressing nicely.. but aside from that i don't see any of the so call better prospect having any impact at the NHL/AHL level.. Gaunce had a great Utica season.. but didn't really do much in the 20 games with the Canucks.. he had one point.. and if he makes the lineup.. he'll be nothing more than a bottom 6 forward.. Virtanen struggled all year with consistency he showed some flashes here and there.. but i expected a bit more out of a #6 overall pick.. even if he doesn't score i expected him to compete hard every night which i failed to see at the home games.. let's just say in the future Baertschi Horvat and Boeser is going to be our top line.. who's gonna fill in the 2nd line assuming the sedins retires.. ??? ??? Eriksson and maybe a Virtanen? i see a bunch of top 6 2nd line players.. but really nothing really jumps out at you saying he's top line material.. don't even need a point a game.. any of those players you see reaching 70 points? in a few years? MAYBE Horvat if he can find chemistry with Baertschi and Boeser.. Horvat have shown great passing skill last year.. just no one ever finishes his pass into empty nets

[coastal1]

2 hours ago, Nucks89 said:

Making the playoffs and getting beat in round one isn't an accomplishment. This ownership is strictly focused on playoff revenue and ensuring fans keep interested. Unfortunately the Canucks are losing fans and they will be in the 10-12 no man's land if this "plan" continues. 

 

Bottom line is this franchise is in big trouble. Meddling owners, no great prospects, older vets. Fans are already speaking with their wallets. Why not bottom out a few years and re stock? 

"Making the playoffs and getting beat in round one isn't an accomplishment." Tell that to Oilers fans and see what they say. Or ask Winnipeg fans which year was better, last year or the year before when they got swept in the first round.

[GreyHatnDart]

57 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

 

i dunno.. the Sedins and Kesler in 2000s seems to be better than whatever prospect we have now.. i'll agree we have a decent prospect pool atm but it's far from abundance and still lacking in the really high end skill category... Boeser and demko looks to be progressing nicely.. but aside from that i don't see any of the so call better prospect having any impact at the NHL/AHL level.. Gaunce had a great Utica season.. but didn't really do much in the 20 games with the Canucks.. he had one point.. and if he makes the lineup.. he'll be nothing more than a bottom 6 forward.. Virtanen struggled all year with consistency he showed some flashes here and there.. but i expected a bit more out of a #6 overall pick.. even if he doesn't score i expected him to compete hard every night which i failed to see at the home games.. let's just say in the future Baertschi Horvat and Boeser is going to be our top line.. who's gonna fill in the 2nd line assuming the sedins retires.. ??? ??? Eriksson and maybe a Virtanen? i see a bunch of top 6 2nd line players.. but really nothing really jumps out at you saying he's top line material.. don't even need a point a game.. any of those players you see reaching 70 points? in a few years? MAYBE Horvat if he can find chemistry with Baertschi and Boeser.. Horvat have shown great passing skill last year.. just no one ever finishes his pass into empty nets

Really? Let's compare Horvat's numbers to the Sedins' and Keslers', just for giggles. 

 

Kesler's first full season, at 21 years old, had 10g 13a. 

Horvat's first full season, at 20 years old, had 16g 24a. 

Hmm. 

 

Henrik didn't hit 42 points until his 4th season. Same with Daniel. 

 

I'm not saying Horvat is the next coming of Kesler or will match the point totals of either Sedin. I am curious however as to what your definition of "better prospects" means, exactly?

 

 

[GiveMeDaPuck]

47 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

 

i dunno.. the Sedins and Kesler in 2000s seems to be better than whatever prospect we have now.. i'll agree we have a decent prospect pool atm but it's far from abundance and still lacking in the really high end skill category... Boeser and demko looks to be progressing nicely.. but aside from that i don't see any of the so call better prospect having any impact at the NHL/AHL level.. Gaunce had a great Utica season.. but didn't really do much in the 20 games with the Canucks.. he had one point.. and if he makes the lineup.. he'll be nothing more than a bottom 6 forward.. Virtanen struggled all year with consistency he showed some flashes here and there.. but i expected a bit more out of a #6 overall pick.. even if he doesn't score i expected him to compete hard every night which i failed to see at the home games.. let's just say in the future Baertschi Horvat and Boeser is going to be our top line.. who's gonna fill in the 2nd line assuming the sedins retires.. ??? ??? Eriksson and maybe a Virtanen? i see a bunch of top 6 2nd line players.. but really nothing really jumps out at you saying he's top line material.. don't even need a point a game.. any of those players you see reaching 70 points? in a few years? MAYBE Horvat if he can find chemistry with Baertschi and Boeser.. Horvat have shown great passing skill last year.. just no one ever finishes his pass into empty nets

I think some people forget the feelings of Canucks fans back at the time these players were young. Imagine a 20 year old Ryan Kesler on this Canucks team, playing his 03-04 season of 28 games and 5 points, which extrapolates pretty closely to Jake Virtanen and his total of 13 points in 55 games in his 19 year old season in the NHL. Kesler would play another full year in the AHL before given a crack at the NHL again, and again he posted pretty modest numbers. Most people thought he'd never be more than a 3rd liner. 

 

Let's move onto Daniel Sedin, who made his debut at the age of 20. First season, 34 points, second season regressed to 32 points and the third season, regressed again 31 points. At that point, how many people predicted the Sedins would be some of the best players in the NHL? Just as a point of reference, Bo Horvat's 40 points in his 20 year old season were more than Daniel would get in his first 3 seasons and more than Henrik would get in his first 4. I can only imagine how terrible they would be viewed as prospects on the current Canucks roster.

 

I'd be the first to admit that the past two to three seasons have been incredibly painful to watch from an entertainment standpoint. But, for the first time in at least three seasons, I'm genuinely excited for the direction this team is headed. On top of that, a tank is not possible as long as the Sedins, Edler, Tanev, Hansen, etc. are members of the team. To me, we're sort of getting the best of both worlds right now, we may finally have a team that's somewhat exciting to watch, and at the same time we have a fairly stocked cupboard of young up and comers who will be the future core of this team. 

[NEON.KNEE]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

 

i dunno.. the Sedins and Kesler in 2000s seems to be better than whatever prospect we have now.. 

Kesler was drafted 4 years after the Twins were and the Twins had already played 3 FULL NHL seasons.

We have NEVER had this many high calibre prospects all drafted so close to each other.   We could have an epic young playing in the NHL in a couple of seasons.

 

I think waiting is the key, and TSN's assessment of SCORCHED EARTH rebuild is laughable at best.  The depth we had in 2011 could be attributed to having a core group of players, a handful of whom played together in Manitoba on the Moose.

 

The SIZE and CALIBRE of the group of prospects we have now is bigger and more skilled than ever before.

[TheNewGM]

58 minutes ago, coastal1 said:

"Making the playoffs and getting beat in round one isn't an accomplishment." Tell that to Oilers fans and see what they say. Or ask Winnipeg fans which year was better, last year or the year before when they got swept in the first round.

both of these "losing" teams have exciting future SUPER STARS on theyre team..Id lose for a few years gladly to have McDavid.. Sorry but using the oilers as an example is going to start looking pretty dumb when McDavid scores 110+ points next year..

 

GG

[Remy]

32 minutes ago, GiveMeDaPuck said:

I think some people forget the feelings of Canucks fans back at the time these players were young. Imagine a 20 year old Ryan Kesler on this Canucks team, playing his 03-04 season of 28 games and 5 points, which extrapolates pretty closely to Jake Virtanen and his total of 13 points in 55 games in his 19 year old season in the NHL. Kesler would play another full year in the AHL before given a crack at the NHL again, and again he posted pretty modest numbers. Most people thought he'd never be more than a 3rd liner. 

 

Let's move onto Daniel Sedin, who made his debut at the age of 20. First season, 34 points, second season regressed to 32 points and the third season, regressed again 31 points. At that point, how many people predicted the Sedins would be some of the best players in the NHL? Just as a point of reference, Bo Horvat's 40 points in his 20 year old season were more than Daniel would get in his first 3 seasons and more than Henrik would get in his first 4. I can only imagine how terrible they would be viewed as prospects on the current Canucks roster.

 

I'd be the first to admit that the past two to three seasons have been incredibly painful to watch from an entertainment standpoint. But, for the first time in at least three seasons, I'm genuinely excited for the direction this team is headed. On top of that, a tank is not possible as long as the Sedins, Edler, Tanev, Hansen, etc. are members of the team. To me, we're sort of getting the best of both worlds right now, we may finally have a team that's somewhat exciting to watch, and at the same time we have a fairly stocked cupboard of young up and comers who will be the future core of this team. 

 

Welcome to the forums, I like you already. 

[Tony Da Tigre]

Here's the conflict:

 

The team actually needed a rebuild a few years ago, but ownership wouldn't allow that to happen, so what we're doing is what the team likes to call a 'retool'. So far it's not too bad, our team got younger and we actually have solid prospects in the system who might be able to step in. When you look at TSN's post, they're not wrong. If the Sedins were to retire today, we don't have roster players who can take over and they're not getting younger. Benning basically inherited a sinking ship and we're looking to him to save us after so many years of drafting poorly and shipping prospects away for rental players.

 

The one thing I disagree with TSN is the part with 'throwing money after bad' because I think the Eriksson is a good signing. We don't have enough offense right now and our prospects need more time to develop.

[Honky Cat]

2 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Laugh it up....Our prospect pool is probably the best it's been in 20 years,and our D is younger and revamped...all this,done in two years...

[SilentSam]

 I guess TSN thinks that if your not doing what Toronto is doing, it's not fashionable.?.   All year you will hear,   "How about that M Martin, A Mathews combination... Boy o boy that Mathews looks good in a new  leafs jersey eh?".   

[Pears]

3 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

Laugh it up....Our prospect pool is probably the best it's been in 20 years,and our D is younger and revamped...all this,done in two years...

And to think Benning wants to add even more. Expressing his desire to add a big scoring winger and showing interest in Tyson Barrie, we could be looking even better before training camp. 

[Inge34]

35 minutes ago, TheNewGM said:

both of these "losing" teams have exciting future SUPER STARS on theyre team..Id lose for a few years gladly to have McDavid.. Sorry but using the oilers as an example is going to start looking pretty dumb when McDavid scores 110+ points next year..

 

GG

It will, there is no doubt about it.....

 

But it took 10 years of losing to get a McDavid!!!! 10 years!!!!!

 

Holy crap, this fan base is ready to jump from buildings, riot in the streets, trade every single player for draft picks after one losing season. Could you possibly imagine what 10 years of losing would do here?