Sutter to RW?

[Baggins]

On 7/15/2016 at 8:35 PM, EdgarM said:

Hansen is not top 6. He was put there due to injuries BUT BO is at least a top 6 with what we have in our depth chart. Baert is an offensive player and is not a 4th liner. WD likes to spread his lines out but it has not worked out in the past. We need to score goals and I would rather have 2 good scoring lines than 4 weaker lines that cannot. Burrows ,Dorsett and Hansen are our checkers and need to lead the 3rd and 4th lines. 

Hansen's 38 points in 67 games ranked him 36th in the league for points for right wingers last season. I'd say that qualifies him as a top six winger. The question is, can he do it on the second line without the Sedins. But truthfully he's the best RW option we have after Eriksson as it stands.

 

That said, Horvat on the third line is to his advantage. He was very average for production as second line center last season. Playing him third line means easier opposition. I can see an advantage to that.

[The Brindy Gypsy]

13 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

I dont wanna sound like i can coach the team, im sure the coaching staff knows best but i hear ya. Rolling 4 lines would be ideal but we'll see how the roster looks at training camp.

Yeah, Im stoked to see what Rodin can do, could be a huge addition to the team moving forward if he can chip in some secondary scoring

[ForsbergTheGreat]

On 7/15/2016 at 2:03 AM, mll said:

Throw that all together and I get

 

Sedin Sedin Eriksson

UFA Sutter Hansen

Burrows Horvat Dorsett

Baertschi Granlund Rodin

 

That's how I read it too but I also think that's a big mistake.  Guys like Baertschi and Granlund net ice time to produce.  They are skilled players and those types need to be touching the puck to get into the game.  Sedins take 1:15 on the PP so saying giving them second unit PP doesn't help them out either, as by the time they get out and set up, the power play is over. 

 

It also leaves Etem and Virtanen of the roster. 

 

When it comes to Eriksson playing with the twins, I don't think anything is set in stone yet. 

 

What we do know is that we have three players (Sutter, Eriksson, Hansen) that are all able to play RW on the first line. Willie D may not like Horvat in the #2 spot, but the kid is coming off a 40 point campaign in his second year.  Brandon Sutter has only hit that mark once in his career (similarly as a 20 year old).  With Bo I think with the right players he'd still be able to produce and be strong defensively. 

 

Sedin Sedin Sutter

Baertschi Horvat Eriksson

Rodin Granlund Hansen

Etem Gaunce Dorsett/ Virtanen

 

All the bolded players have the ability to move up and down the line up.  We also really need to look for the first line center, how much longer can we expect Sedins to continue to produce their numbers.  It would be a mistake to cap Horvat's ceiling, let him have that opportunity to prove himself offensively like the jets have done with Scheifele.   

[EdgarM]

23 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

Yea lets crash and burn our top 6, we saw how that worked out with torts. Dont wanna see that movie again...

Actually Torts played the hell out of the top line which wore the Sedins down. WD does the opposite and rolls four lines. Don't know if the Sedins care for that and nor should they. There has to be a happy medium something which AV used to be great at. He wasn't a bad coach either.

[EdgarM]

10 hours ago, Baggins said:

Hansen's 38 points in 67 games ranked him 36th in the league for points for right wingers last season. I'd say that qualifies him as a top six winger. The question is, can he do it on the second line without the Sedins. But truthfully he's the best RW option we have after Eriksson as it stands.

 

That said, Horvat on the third line is to his advantage. He was very average for production as second line center last season. Playing him third line means easier opposition. I can see an advantage to that.

Last year was a bit of an anomoly for Hansen. Another player who has benefited from playing with the twins. Sutter has proven to play and produce well with the twins and is another option for faceoffs for that line to remain posession. More offense than the Badger IMO.

Bo has had a couple of years to learn to be an NHLer and should be more prepared to play more minutes. He has fitted in right from the get go and has the ability to learn and grow more quicker than any other Canuck in recent years.

Plus Bo playing with LE is very intriuging and I am curious to see what he can do with a player of his caliber.

[longsuffering]

Who is this Sutter guy you're talking about? Is he the slow down or stop guy that got injured and disappeared for a season?

[87Crosby]

10 minutes ago, longsuffering said:

Who is this Sutter guy you're talking about? Is he the slow down or stop guy that got injured and disappeared for a season?

Yeah, that one guy it looks like you've never seen play before the last season. 

Hint: He barely missed a game before his freak injury season last year. 

 

As for the RW thing, I think it is plausible. But it all depends on if Horvat and him have any chemistry.

 

Sedin-Sedin-Loui

Baertchi-Horvat-Sutter

Rodin-Granlund-Hansen

Etem-Gaunce-Dorsett

 

[longsuffering]

Yeah... I watched all the home games he played. IMO Didn't make much of an impression. There are younger and better players now..... so who does he push out? I hope he brings a lot more than he did at the beginning of last season.

[87Crosby]

30 minutes ago, longsuffering said:

Yeah... I watched all the home games he played. IMO Didn't make much of an impression. There are younger and better players now..... so who does he push out? I hope he brings a lot more than he did at the beginning of last season.

You are really overrating our rookies if you think there are better players than Sutter on the team. Sutter is in our 6 most important forwards and in his first 12 games he had 7 points. Over his next 8 he suffered two injuries and only netted 2 points.

 

As for who he would push out, it would have to be Hansen as the 2RW. What some people don't get is that this frees up the 3C spot for Granlund and allows Rodin a shot to play Top 9 minutes too. With Sutter as 2C and Horvat as a 3C, this is my prospective lineup:

 

Sedin-Sedin-Loui

Baer-Sutter-Hansen

Rodin-Horvat-Dorsett

Gaunce-Granlund-Etem

 

Personally, I love Dorsett, but he's a banger and crasher, not a 3rd line winger, Rodin and Horvat would leave him in the dust. With a 3rd line of Rodin-Granlund-Hansen, Rodin and Hansens's speed along side Granlund's passing ability might lead thst line to be good offensively. Hansen is no slouch defensively either. 

[EdgarM]

2 hours ago, longsuffering said:

Yeah... I watched all the home games he played. IMO Didn't make much of an impression. There are younger and better players now..... so who does he push out? I hope he brings a lot more than he did at the beginning of last season.

Would love to see how you rate players.   Which rookie do you think is a better player than Sutter right now? This should be interesting.

[luckylager]

How does moving Sutter to RW lessen our actual need for a LW? I love Hansen, but haven't ever thought he really excelled on the left side. It also doesn't help us match up better against the "big teams", which is why JB traded for Sutter in the first place.

 

I'm still hoping for a second line of Baer-Sutter-Erikkson, IMHO that line has everything.

 

Hansen played great with the twins and who knows, Burr could be reborn a Swede, or if Jake busts his ass this summer.... Hansen could play with Bo again.

 

There's also lots of summer left so I guess we have to wait and see how it all plays out, but I'm a no on the whole Sutter to wing front.

 

Should Bo move to LW? Hells no! Depth down the middle is key to success.

 

 

[Green Building]

7 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Sedin Sedin Sutter

Baertschi Horvat Eriksson

Rodin Granlund Hansen

Etem Gaunce Dorsett/ Virtanen

 

I agree, but with much convolution. I switch Sutter with Granlund, move Eriksson up to the 1st line, move 1 of Hansen or Virtanen up to the 2nd and the other to the 3rd, give the 2nd and 3rd lines almost identical minutes, unless 1 of them goes on a hot streak and can be leaned on a little more for a night or 2, and without hesitation send Virtanen to Utica to play top minutes if his destiny with us next season is 4th line minutes. 

 

To me the semantics (which you never argued, I'm just stating a general opinion) of calling a line 2nd or 3rd isn't really important. Each line could get equal-ish minutes, especially if neither one is shining on a particular night. Granlund wasn't good enough at faceoffs last season so he can play wing until he improves in that area, if he ever does, and I think that he Etem, and Gaunce could be a youthful energy line for us in the meantime.

 

Rodin is the only one I'm unsure about.

 

Sedin   Sedin   Eriksson

Baertschi   Horvat   Hansen/Virtanen

Rodin   Sutter   Virtanen/Hansen

Etem   Gaunce*   Granlund

 

* of course, Gaunce may not turn out to be much better than Granlund's %42 so they could change around, albeit at reduced opportunity relative to middle 6 minutes

 

 

 

 

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Last year was a bit of an anomoly for Hansen. Another player who has benefited from playing with the twins. Sutter has proven to play and produce well with the twins and is another option for faceoffs for that line to remain posession. More offense than the Badger IMO.

Bo has had a couple of years to learn to be an NHLer and should be more prepared to play more minutes. He has fitted in right from the get go and has the ability to learn and grow more quicker than any other Canuck in recent years.

Plus Bo playing with LE is very intriuging and I am curious to see what he can do with a player of his caliber.

So who will be the shutdown line? I'd wager the reason Benning wants a big LW for the second line is because Sutter's line will take on that duty with Hansen on the RW. Sutter is currently the best shutdown center we have. Thus putting him with the Sedins makes no sense.

[Green Building]

6 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Last year was a bit of an anomoly for Hansen. Another player who has benefited from playing with the twins. Sutter has proven to play and produce well with the twins and is another option for faceoffs for that line to remain posession. More offense than the Badger IMO.

Bo has had a couple of years to learn to be an NHLer and should be more prepared to play more minutes. He has fitted in right from the get go and has the ability to learn and grow more quicker than any other Canuck in recent years.

Plus Bo playing with LE is very intriuging and I am curious to see what he can do with a player of his caliber.

No, it really wasn't even close to an anomaly at all. It was just him getting back on track to what he did in 2011-12 where he had 39 points. Following that year was the lockout shortened season where he had 27 points in 47 games, another anomaly I'm sure, Torts definitely anomaly-ed him in 2013, but Hansen wasn't the only victim of that experiment. If you meant that he rippled 6 more goals than his previous [2] bests then I guess there's that, it just doesn't seem like much of a thing to call him out on when his point totals were very similar to his previous years, excluding Tort's, and pro-rating the lockout. 

 

I agree that Bo is physically prepared to take on more minutes, and has the smarts to be mentally prepared as well. He's one of several players I'm looking forward to seeing back in uni next season, but let's leave Eriksson on the Twins line to take a little scoring pressure off of them, and maybe bump their totals up 5-10 points if the Team Sweden chemistry still exists. If not, sure, move him around, but I'd like to see him get at least a 1/2 season, if not a full one, before considering that.  

[mll]

9 hours ago, Baggins said:

So who will be the shutdown line? I'd wager the reason Benning wants a big LW for the second line is because Sutter's line will take on that duty with Hansen on the RW. Sutter is currently the best shutdown center we have. Thus putting him with the Sedins makes no sense.

Like last year, Horvat.  Even when Sutter was healthy it was Horvat getting the d-zone starts against the scoring lines.  I don't think it's going to change except it sounds like they want Horvat to play him with defensive wingers this time around.  

[Qwags]

Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson

Rodin-Sutter-Hansen

Baer-Horvat-Etem

Burr-Granny-Dorsett

Gaunce

I'd rather they play it safe and put Virt in the AHL, and start Horvat as a third line centre.

[Adamth]

1 hour ago, Qwags said:

Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson

Rodin-Sutter-Hansen

Baer-Horvat-Etem

Burr-Granny-Dorsett

Gaunce

I'd rather they play it safe and put Virt in the AHL, and start Horvat as a third line centre.

one thing i remember what Willie said: " no line is treated as a "rank" all 4 lines are treated like #1

[mll]

On 18 July 2016 at 10:52 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

That's how I read it too but I also think that's a big mistake.  Guys like Baertschi and Granlund net ice time to produce.  They are skilled players and those types need to be touching the puck to get into the game.  Sedins take 1:15 on the PP so saying giving them second unit PP doesn't help them out either, as by the time they get out and set up, the power play is over. 

 

It also leaves Etem and Virtanen of the roster. 

 

When it comes to Eriksson playing with the twins, I don't think anything is set in stone yet. 

 

What we do know is that we have three players (Sutter, Eriksson, Hansen) that are all able to play RW on the first line. Willie D may not like Horvat in the #2 spot, but the kid is coming off a 40 point campaign in his second year.  Brandon Sutter has only hit that mark once in his career (similarly as a 20 year old).  With Bo I think with the right players he'd still be able to produce and be strong defensively. 

 

Sedin Sedin Sutter

Baertschi Horvat Eriksson

Rodin Granlund Hansen

Etem Gaunce Dorsett/ Virtanen

 

All the bolded players have the ability to move up and down the line up.  We also really need to look for the first line center, how much longer can we expect Sedins to continue to produce their numbers.  It would be a mistake to cap Horvat's ceiling, let him have that opportunity to prove himself offensively like the jets have done with Scheifele.   

Granlund will probably not see PP time -  I am not even sure Baertschi will. 

It's 6 or 7Fs: Eriksson, Sedins, Sutter, UFA and probably Horvat - that's 6 and there might be a spot open for one of Baertschi, Virtanen or Rodin assuming Hansen doesn't get a spot.

 

There's a lot of pressure on WD to win and the young players (save Horvat) will probably get quite a bit less opportunities because of that re consistency and simply trust.  There will be 8 vets in the lineup if you count that UFA, Dorsett and Burrows.  Add Horvat and Baertschi to make 10 and it leaves 2 lineup spots (+1 in the pressbox) for Granlund, Rodin, Virtanen, Etem, Gaunce, Grenier, Zalewski.   

 

They want to play Sutter with two goal scorers so hopefully Ferraro is off the mark and Kuzma is spot on.  They have to give him the opportunity to be C2. 

 

If it doesn't work out - they'll shuffle the lines early enough.  There will likely not be the same patience as last year. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

7 minutes ago, mll said:

Granlund will probably not see PP time -  I am not even sure Baertschi will. 

It's 6 or 7Fs: Eriksson, Sedins, Sutter, UFA and probably Horvat - that's 6 and there might be a spot open for one of Baertschi, Virtanen or Rodin assuming Hansen doesn't get a spot.

 

There's a lot of pressure on WD to win and the young players (save Horvat) will probably get quite a bit less opportunities because of that re consistency and simply trust.  There will be 8 vets in the lineup if you count that UFA, Dorsett and Burrows.  Add Horvat and Baertschi to make 10 and it leaves 2 lineup spots (+1 in the pressbox) for Granlund, Rodin, Virtanen, Etem, Gaunce, Grenier, Zalewski.   

 

They want to play Sutter with two goal scorers so hopefully Ferraro is off the mark and Kuzma is spot on.  They have to give him the opportunity to be C2. 

 

If it doesn't work out - they'll shuffle the lines early enough.  There will likely not be the same patience as last year. 

Which is a massive mistake, it will only hurt the progress of our youth.  We have relied on character enough in offensive starts and it's gotten us into the bottom 5 of pp%.  It's time to start using players to their skillset, and giving them opportunity not only for them selves to succeed but also the twins.  It was a waste watching Prust and Higgins get opportunity late in games last year when down by one, it didn't result in wins or development.   

[cripplereh]

20 hours ago, longsuffering said:

Yeah... I watched all the home games he played. IMO Didn't make much of an impression. There are younger and better players now..... so who does he push out? I hope he brings a lot more than he did at the beginning of last season.

are you kidding me????he is a guy who can shoot and pass plus very fast!!like said before last season he was out 5 games in 5 seasons.he gets 20 plus goals and to me you want him out wtf are you on????before he got hurt the canucks were in a good position in the standings and would have easily got into the playoffs with him in the lineup.He is like hansen another guy who plays hard every shift but scores more.