Canada Hockey Place Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I suspect ticket prices will fall again. The only people who expect this team to do well are those who will no matter what. It's admirable. Really. Most people I know have or are disconnecting a bit to deal with disappointment. I know a ticket broker, says he won't sell Canucks this season because everyone expects to pay less than the price on the ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipes2539 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 46 minutes ago, D-Money said: Overall, I think most of Benning's moves have been positive. But for those claiming that our young players and prospects will almost assuredly make us a contender a few years from now...you obviously aren't paying attention. As much as Horvat, Boeser, Demko, Juolevi, Baertschi, et al are good young players, lots of teams have equivalent-or-better. When those players are in their prime, they'll be up against other currently young cores (under 25 now), such as: Edmonton: McDavid, Puljujarvi, Draisatl, RNH, Nurse, Larsson, Klefbom Winnipeg: Sheifele, Laine, Trouba, Hellebuyck, Connor, Petan, Lowry, Dano, Morrissey Calgary: Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton, Bennett, Tkachuk, Gillies, Andersson, Shinkaruk Arizona: OEL, Domi, Duclair, Strome, Chychrun, Merkley, Dvorak, Wood, Hill, Perlini Nashville: Forsberg, Johansen, Ellis, Fiala, Saros, Kamenev, Dougherty, Trenin (...and Subban is only 26) Colorado: MacKinnon, Landeskog, Barrie, Rantenen, Zadorov, Bigras, Grimaldi, Pickard, Grigorenko, Greer St. Louis: Tarasenko, Fabbri, Schwartz, Parayko, Barbashev, Jaskin, Schmaltz, Kristo Anaheim: Lindholm, Rakell, Gibson, Fowler, Despres, Theodore, Larsson, Ritchie, Montour Dallas: Seguin, Klingberg, Gurianov, Honka, Janmark, Faksa, Dickinson, Johns, Shore Minnesota: Coyle, Granlund, Niederreiter, Tuch, Dumba, Brodin, Reilly, Eriksson Ek, Olofsson... ...Of those 10 Western teams, most unbiased people would generally rate their young players ahead of ours, in both quality and quantity. Now, a few teams will probably have multiple busts and end up with less than they thought (Minnesota is trending that direction). And a couple teams will probably end up with better players than anyone foresaw. But even if we end up in the latter of those two, there will still be multiple Western teams with absolutely stacked cores to go up against. The sad truth is, we probably haven't hit bottom yet. In fact, I would not be surprised if this year the Canucks make the playoffs, and even win a round. They added some decent pieces, whereas most of the Western playoff teams got worse in the offseason, and the younger teams may need another year or two to develop. So I don't blame management for trying a 2-3 year 'last hurrah' with the Sedins, because once they leave, that is when the real pain is going to start. I completely agree with you, the sad part is, it's the owners who want to maximize and milk the Sedins for whatever they can and cash in on as much gate revenue as they can. Because once they're gone, you're right, pain will ensue, I just hope that the young players JB is bringing in now will help soften that fall just a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said: Trading away all your 2nd round picks isn't sacrificing the future? Signing Miller & Vrbata instead of rebuilding isn't sacrificing the future? Got it. You wanted this team to fall off a competitive precipice for years on end, and when the time is right have the foresight to flip the switch to become instant contenders. Those second round picks were meant for players that were supposed to be on the team moving forward. Yeah, Vey didn't turn out. 2nd round picks don't always work out either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 OP, I can't think of a single person that thinks the Canucks will win the SC in 2017. If the Canucks have 5 losing seasons, I doubt there will be many people buying those over-priced tickets anymore. I guess the 'tankers' will enjoy it though...or maybe Seattle will benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Lets go by the oilers unofficial slogan "Expect the worse hope for the best" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Wilbur said: Got it. You wanted this team to fall off a competitive precipice for years on end, and when the time is right have the foresight to flip the switch to become instant contenders. Those second round picks were meant for players that were supposed to be on the team moving forward. Yeah, Vey didn't turn out. 2nd round picks don't always work out either. He filled a role for two seasons, and he did it a hell of a lot better than dozens of players I've seen in a Canucks jersey. What exactly is the standard for "turning out"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said: One was also used for Sutter, and one for Vey. The hate isn't about the 2nd round picks, it's the overall direction of the team (see the Province Canucks poll). Signing old free agents and trading your high draft picks away so you can be average is why there's so much hate for Benning. The 2nd round picks are just part of it. The poll shows that people are being swayed by the eastern media. Burning your team down only guaranties you 10 years of futility. Nothing more. I remember when people were criticizing the flames for hanging onto their vets too long. They used all of the same arguments and now the Flames are in better shape then the Oilers. You use every means to make your team better. You will be guaranteed some high picks no matter what you do, it is just part of rebuilding. We will see more top ten picks, it is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 23 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: He filled a role for two seasons, and he did it a hell of a lot better than dozens of players I've seen in a Canucks jersey. What exactly is the standard for "turning out"? Turn out as hoped? Whenever you pick up a player of Vey's age you always hope they are around for more than two years. Not trying to be negative, not saying it was a mistake. It was a worthy gamble, but I'm sure Benning was hoping for more than two years from Vey too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Turn out as hoped? Whenever you pick up a player of Vey's age you always hope they are around for more than two years. Not trying to be negative, not saying it was a mistake. It was a worthy gamble, but I'm sure Benning was hoping for more than two years from Vey too. Well sure, he was not everything Benning may have hoped for, but the consensus on this board has tended to be that Benning whiffed on Vey and I think that that's a bit too black and white. Although in this case, I didn't really think that you meant 'total failure' - I just wanted to chime in on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I think a lot of people are too focused on Benning's plan and what it entails. He obviously does have a plan and he's stated that plan practically each time he's on the radio. Yet, somehow we still have people (especially media) who are "confused" as to what his plan is. It's not rocket science: bring in some youth to the aging lineup through trades and the draft while maintaining a competitive team. Where's the confusion in that? Does this mean we'll make the playoffs next year? It's not guaranteed, but at least it still gives us a team to cheer for next year. If they do many the playoffs, anything can happen. I'm not saying they will make the playoffs, let alone a Stanley Cup. I'm saying anything's possible given our situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 27 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Turn out as hoped? Whenever you pick up a player of Vey's age you always hope they are around for more than two years. Not trying to be negative, not saying it was a mistake. It was a worthy gamble, but I'm sure Benning was hoping for more than two years from Vey too. I think between Henrik, Horvat, Suter, and Granlund, we're pretty solid at center at this point. Vey hasn't looked like he'll replace Henrik when the Sedins retire. I think Vey's in an awkward position where he's more of an offensive forward, yet hasn't proven to be good enough for the top 6, at least not in our lineup. This tends to zero him out a bit. It's not that he didn't have a lack of trying. Who knows what he does in Calgary. At least he's being given another chance; however, I think if he's to stick in the NHL he's going to need to either produce more points or find a niche elsewhere with his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ukcanuckzfan Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Win or lose, i'll still be up at 3:00am in England to watch the canucks play. I personally found the canucks rather fun to watch compared to other teams last season, but I might have massive bias here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 3 hours ago, appleboy said: Why is there so much hate for Benning around the 2nd round picks. He has only been hear for 3 drafts. One 2nd went for Sven and another one was used to acquire Gudbranson. I think we used one for Pedan. Miller and Vrbata were UFA's. So I will guess you are suggesting that they stopped us from tanking. I believe its Vey. That's the word your looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44ever Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 7 hours ago, zzbottom said: Where exactly would you go if you weren't willing to wait? You'd only be about the one billionth professional sports fan to hreaten abandonment due to disagreement with management decisions. You'd be back. I guess I should of explained that better. It's just a phrase. i never threatened leaving I more or less just meant I am willing to wait and be patient, before becoming an angry fan. That's what I meant by that. and if any of you thought my op was painful to read ....I'm guessing you were brought up with high speed internet, Xbox flat screens 500 channels. probably never read a book in your entire life. It really didn't take that long to read I can read what I wrote in about 45 seconds maybe less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44ever Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 4 hours ago, kloubek said: Firstly, unless we get decimated by injury or the Sedins completely fall off a cliff, we are going to make the playoffs. We are better in every single area, from scoring to defense to goaltending to depth in general (to help offset the injuries we do get). We have young guys who are a year older and more experienced, a legitimate scorer in Eriksson, and two wildcards in Rodin and Larsen. I see almost no chance of us NOT making the playoffs. With that said, we still have holes. We don't yet have a #1 pmd, the Sedins *are* slowing down, and we have no legit 2nd line LW. Are we a contender now? No. But we're a FAR better team than last season, and assuming over the next 1-3 years Benning addresses the holes we have, or the younger guys develop to fill those holes, we have a definite chance of being a contender. But nothing is guaranteed - especially with other teams seemingly improving at the same time. How do you figure?? Did everyone in the west just get worse? No they got better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Look, there are no guarantees on anything. I don't think anyone believes we're automatically guaranteed to be elite contenders in three years. There are too many variables at play to guarantee anything. To me it's more of how Benning's changes to the team are trending in an upward direction. We'll be solid in goal with the transition from Miller/Markstrom to Markstrom/Demko. He's improved our D corps and filled certain holes while also addressing our need for goals as our young guys develop and get better. Also, you have to look ahead and take into consideration what this team will be like with Boeser, Juolevi, and the other prospects. How can you not look ahead and see the potential positives along with the potential negatives? Since the thread title has an "if" in it, you can easily say, well, what if Horvat, Virtanen, Hutton, Rodin, even Etem all break out at the same time? What if the Sedins point totals elevate with Eriksson? What if Eriksson and Hansen equal their goal production from last season? What if Baertschi and a healthy Sutter have career years? There's no guarantee this will happen, but Benning has put the team in a better position to improve upon last season. That's all we really have to go on. Is he building a winner? Well, you can certainly see how the changes should have a positive impact on the now and future. At this stage, no one can guarantee we'll have a losing season or not make the playoffs. There are still many variables to consider. Like you said, luck, timing, or even injuries to our team or other teams, streaks, bad calls, etc. This is Willie's third season and he could very well hit his stride as a coach. Who knows. The deeper issue seems to always come down to being a contender or nothing. No in-between. I'd rather build us into a team that can at least win the second round of the playoffs and then make tweaks via trade or FA to the roster to push us to the next level. I do think there's middle ground while winning rather than losing for years. There's no guarantee on either side but at least you can give fans some hope. The reality is, no matter how you slice it, anything can happen. Hutton is a great example of that. No one even thought about him making the team, he surprised everyone, made the team and made us better. He made a lot of fans say, wow, look at what we have. My opinion on the contender vs. winning vs. tanking is evolving to a point where I think this team just needs to win a cup no matter how they do it. After all, there are no guarantees either way. We got into the cup final in 82 with zero hope of winning. We got into the final in 94 as the underdog that proved that anything can happen. We got to the final in 2011 as a contender and still didn't win. If we don't get to the playoffs, we don't even have a shot. I think it's vitally important that we at least have a shot at getting to the cup sooner rather than waiting a decade trying to build a contender when we can build a winner. This city needs to get the cup curse off it's back sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 21 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44ever said: How do you figure?? Did everyone in the west just get worse? No they got better We were saying the same thing last season... Calgary acquired Hamilton,and everyone was picking them to compete for the top of the division with LA and Anaheim..?...They didn't even come close,and regressed badly (they beat us by a meager 2 points in the standings)..Winnipeg and Edmonton were also predicted to have 'breakout years' and were equally pathetic down the home stretch of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 canucks will finish in the 7-10 spot this year. 42 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44ever said: How do you figure?? Did everyone in the west just get worse? No they got better A lot of the bigger teams did get worse. LA watched another rental UFA walk, can't really say the ducks got better by adding Raymond. Oilers are still the oilers, Flames might have upgraded over last years roster but still not really a playoff team. I'd say the 3 pacific division spots are up for grabs. Hawks are in cap troubles, STL lost some big pieces, DAL and NSH are strong but the entire west is open. No more real powerhouses in the west, it up for another team to challenge for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Cup or bust tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Bertuzzi44ever said: How do you figure?? Did everyone in the west just get worse? No they got better Ummm... yeaaah..... Perhaps you want to reread my last line to my post: "But nothing is guaranteed - especially with other teams seemingly improving at the same time." But really, as another user pointed out, some teams did improve but others seem to have taken a set backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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