Jim Benning on TSN 1040

[Fred65]

36 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

How long does Corrado get the Hodgson treatment? These guys aren't the ones that got away. They are marginal NHLers who think they are worth more than they really are.

Well the point is not do you like Cofrrado or not but we gave away an asset for nothing, when there were alternatives for management. Coraddo interesting to note has been given a one way contract by TO. That's what he wanted a one way. The guy that lost out most in the Hodgson trade was Hodgeson's father  We got Kassian which should have been a good trade but his habits got the better of him

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

How long before Weber is on waivers?

Poile seemed pretty high on him. Or maybe he was just high?

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

Well the point is not do you like Cofrrado or not but we gave away an asset for nothing, when there were alternatives for management. Coraddo interesting to note has been given a one way contract by TO. That's what he wanted a one way. The guy that lost out most in the Hodgson trade was Hodgeson's father  We got Kassian which should have been a good trade but his habits got the better of him

Teams lose players to waivers every year. Many get picked up (typically by bad teams) simply because they are free. The fact Benning tried to trade him and got no offers should tell you something.

 

Should Benning have sent McCann back to junior to avoid putting Vey on waivers? If you get outplayed somebody else will get your spot.

[Fred65]

7 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Poile seemed pretty high on him. Or maybe he was just high?

You must have been to Smashville, Tootsies is just across the road from Poiles office   Actually Weber might do just fine in the country Capital of NA. he won't be asked to do too much

 

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

Teams lose players to waivers every year. Many get picked up (typically by bad teams) simply because they are free. The fact Benning tried to trade him and got no offers should tell you something.

 

Should Benning have sent McCann back to junior to avoid putting Vey on waivers? If you get outplayed somebody else will get your spot.

TO has signed Corrado again. All Vcr had to do was waive a 30 year old AHL veteran instead. And as it turned out we were in dire need for D as the season continued. IMO bad asset management. Corrado will be an NHL player this coming season. Corrado has been replaced by Biega who was awarded a 2-3 year contract for $750K and now they're going to have to waive him too, and he will pass through waiver because of his contract. Wasn't it JB who said we needed 8 D to start the season. Seems like mixed messageIMHO

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

TO has signed Corrado again. All Vcr had to do was waive a 30 year old AHL veteran instead. And as it turned out we were in dire need for D as the season continued. IMO bad asset management. Corrado will be an NHL player this coming season. Corrado has been replaced by Biega who was awarded a 2-3 year contract for $750K and now they're going to have to waive him too, and he will pass through waiver because of his contract. Wasn't it JB who said we needed 8 D to start the season. Seems like mixed messageIMHO

So what? They got him for free and he got a one year league minimum contract. Whoopy! He's a star d-man. I'll say it again, players get waived every year. Hutton was the better option and proved it throughout the season. Corrado would still be on the outside looking in here.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Baggins said:

So what? They got him for free and he got a one year league minimum contract. Whoopy! He's a star d-man. I'll say it again, players get waived every year. Hutton was the better option and proved it throughout the season. Corrado would still be on the outside looking in here.

Doesn't having a one way contract only mean Corrado gets paid the same whether in the NHL or the AHL?  He might still get waived again, right?  Is it less likely for a guy on a one way deal to be claimed off waivers?  I wonder if this is another Leaf's ploy?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

36 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

If you look at Benning's body of work it isn't really bad at all. The majority of his trades are basically fair market value hockey trades. His drafting is yet to be determined. Most of his picks look to be good, just a little too early to critique guys that haven't made the NHL yet. The only problem I have with any of his moves is the timing.

 

Lack and Markstrom would have given the team basically the same level of goaltending. So I would say he jumped the gun on signing Miller. You can say all you want about hindsight and Millers Mentorship but that is a pretty pricey commitment for a marginal improvement. 

 

Clendening for Frosling. This was another trade that was born out of haste. He wanted a young PPQB so he tried fast forward the Frosling pick. Too early to judge but no matter how you look at it we lost something for nothing. 

Considering we've never had a player named Frosling, so..

 

36 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Shinkurak trade. Basically the same motive as the Frosling deal. It may have been some foreshadowing into the Gudbranson deal. Regardless, we don't really have Shinkurak's skill set anywhere else in our organization and if anything he gave us diversity. 

Granlund did allow us to feel free to move on McCann. Shinkaruk didn't have much of a spot on this team and WD was never gonig to give Shinkaruk a shot since he didn't like him. 

 

36 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Gudbranson deal. Before this trade Gudbranson was one of my favourite dmen in the entire league. I love big hard hitting dmen. However, I don't think this was a major need in our back end. We already have 5 dmen who are more defensive than offensive. Pretty much the same motive as the last mentioned trades. Gudbranson is an eye candy acquisition IMO. We should not have cashed in an asset like McCann on a defensive Dman. 

McCann is not an asset we have a need for at the moment.  That makes him expendable.  Gudbranson isn't just a big D that hits.  The only one at his level of shut down is Tanev.  Tryamkin isn't a shut down d, Edler isn't, neither is Hutton, Sbisa,or larsen.  Just because they have the same physical features doesn't mean they have the same style of play.  If Benning can get McCann with the #24, can he not do it again?

 

36 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

It is impossible to quantify winning as something tangible in a retool/build. Taveres, Stamkos, Crosby, Towes were all losers for their NHL introductions. They are just fine. I think this notion is heavily exaggerated.

I've already pointed this out to you.  The minute Toews was drafted, hawks went out and added.  They added depth, they added NHL ready prospects and speed up the process,  They didn't stay bottom feeders stock piling more picks,  Same thing with Pen and Crosby,  they added, all this was done was to develop the players in a winning environment. 

 

36 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

i know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this but if Benning didn't make a single deal and drafted with his great drafting skills, 5 years from now. We will be in basically in the same spot. The only difference is we would have a lot more prospects that have been in the organization for a long time to either graduate or trade for missing pieces

 

How many prospects do you need? 30? You can only have so many players under contract, but anyways. Your theory is flawed, because successful teams are able to gain momentum in their young players ELC and RFA years when they are on cheep contracts.  Horvat is already 3+ years post draft going into year 4.  Take a look at a team like the oilers, they haven't even come close to making the playoffs any are already going to find themselves in cap troubles over the next two year. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

. You can say he only has a net loss of whatever, it's irrelevant. The huge void after the Juolevi pick will come back to haunt us. Next years draft is suppose to be thin which put that much more importance into these last 2 drafts. He gave away a lot. If I'm looking 3-5 years down the road I don't see a drastically changed team with the players he acquired by giving away those draft picks.  

In 3-5 years we will have a new core just heading into their prime years.  The NHL is littered with players drafted outside the top 5 that are NHL elite talents. You're problem with predicting the future is you rely on draft position to determine skill.  Could Baertschi be our next naslund? what about Horvat being our Bergeron/Kopitar.  Hutton has a better NHL start that keith did in his rookie year at the same age.  That's ignoring Brock and Thatcher or any other late bloomers.
 

[LaBamba]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Considering we've never had a player named Frosling, so..

 

Granlund did allow us to feel free to move on McCann. Shinkaruk didn't have much of a spot on this team and WD was never gonig to give Shinkaruk a shot since he didn't like him. 

 

McCann is not an asset we have a need for at the moment.  That makes him expendable.  Gudbranson isn't just a big D that hits.  The only one at his level of shut down is Tanev.  Tryamkin isn't a shut down d, Edler isn't, neither is Hutton, Sbisa,or larsen.  Just because they have the same physical features doesn't mean they have the same style of play.  If Benning can get McCann with the #24, can he not do it again?

 

I've already pointed this out to you.  The minute Toews was drafted, hawks went out and added.  They added depth, they added NHL ready prospects and speed up the process,  They didn't stay bottom feeders stock piling more picks,  Same thing with Pen and Crosby,  they added, all this was done was to develop the players in a winning environment. 

 

 

How many prospects do you need? 30? You can only have so many players under contract, but anyways. Your theory is flawed, because successful teams are able to gain momentum in their young players ELC and RFA years when they are on cheep contracts.  Horvat is already 3+ years post draft going into year 4.  Take a look at a team like the oilers, they haven't even come close to making the playoffs any are already going to find themselves in cap troubles over the next two year. 

 

 

In 3-5 years we will have a new core just heading into their prime years.  The NHL is littered with players drafted outside the top 5 that are NHL elite talents. You're problem with predicting the future is you rely on draft position to determine skill.  Could Baertschi be our next naslund? what about Horvat being our Bergeron/Kopitar.  Hutton has a better NHL start that keith did in his rookie year at the same age.  That's ignoring Brock and Thatcher or any other late bloomers.
 

The only difference is the Blackhawks had Jonathan Toews. We are missing that first step which is why I wrote that post. It's not the individual moves it's the timing of those moves. 

 

How many prospects do you need? I don't know, how much money do you need? Cause that's the NHL's currency.  

 

Stop using the Oilers as this comparison to us if we would have or do tank. They don't or didn't have Jim Benning at their draft table. Their failure is 100% management. Even with their bad management they now have McDavid and a new arena. As much as the homers hate to say it, we have nothing on their future. They now have the management to straighten things out. Same with the leafs. They did what we are doing now for like 3 decades. They have finally embraced a rebuild and everyone jumps all over it like it's been their plan all along. Have some patience cause at some point you may eat your words. 

 

 

[Honky Cat]

5 hours ago, Fred65 said:

No one likes every move that any GM makes ..... but JB

 

Traded Kesler for Sutter and Gudbranson, I'd say he won that trade filled holes and much younger

Baertschi for a 2nd round pick. I'd say he won that one too. Second round picks on average have a 20% chance of making the NHL

Forsling for Celnedening bad trade what was he thinking.

Dorsett for a 3rd round pick good trade but bad contract

Vey for a 2nd round pick, I'll wait to see how he does in Calgary but it doesn't look good

Brisboise for Lack still in limbo

Kassisan for Prust ...both loosers

Shinkaruk for Granlund  Calgary won that one even if it's just potential

Coraddo to Leafs for no return diaster

 

Added via draft

Virtanen

Boeser

Demko

Tryamkin

Juolevi

 

All in all I'd give him a B+

Do you/did you see Lack,Shinkaruk,Kassian and Corrado as the future of this team....?..There's a few spare parts there.

 

 

[Baggins]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Doesn't having a one way contract only mean Corrado gets paid the same whether in the NHL or the AHL?  He might still get waived again, right?  Is it less likely for a guy on a one way deal to be claimed off waivers?  I wonder if this is another Leaf's ploy?

That's right, he gets his 600k no matter where he plays. He could still be easily claimed by another team with a roster spot available. Even if that roster spot was in the press box.

[Fred65]

4 hours ago, Baggins said:

So what? They got him for free and he got a one year league minimum contract. Whoopy! He's a star d-man. I'll say it again, players get waived every year. Hutton was the better option and proved it throughout the season. Corrado would still be on the outside looking in here.

This was nothing to do with Hutton. He could have sent Cracknell down before the season even started he's a career minor leaguer At that stage he was an unknown commodity and as a AHL regular had a better chance to pass through he was 30+. Vcr was the only team that chose to sign Cracknell, prior to camp. Any one cold have had him and frankly he never beat any doors down. What kept him up was the fact JB screwed up and he didn't want to admit it

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

This was nothing to do with Hutton. He could have sent Cracknell down before the season even started he's a career minor leaguer At that stage he was an unknown commodity and as a AHL regular had a better chance to pass through he was 30+. Vcr was the only team that chose to sign Cracknell, prior to camp. Any one cold have had him and frankly he never beat any doors down. What kept him up was the fact JB screwed up and he didn't want to admit it

Cracknell earned a spot - played very well.  When they did waive him later in the season he was claimed by the 3rd team in the waiver order.

 

Corrado didn't earn his spot - simple as that - and spent a half year riding the pine on the worst team in the NHL, so pumping his tires isn't an easy sell really.

 

More protest than it's worth wadr.  Benning took a reasonable risk and tried to send him to the AHL - where he belonged at the time - and ironically wound up on a bogus 'conditioning stint'.  It's still a question mark whether he'll earn an NHL role, so...much ado about nothing.

[Fred65]

3 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Do you/did you see Lack,Shinkaruk,Kassian and Corrado as the future of this team....?..There's a few spare parts there.

 

 

If I'm honest when Kassian was brought in for Hodgson I thought he was a winner. I wasn't aware of his habit. He used to hang out with Tanev and just gald they managed to break that up. But yeah he looked very promising. Lack I never liked always seemed unconventional and at times pure luck. His best ability was his interviews and his Mom was some looker . Corrado in his first young prospects tourney in Penticton looked great and he was only 1 of two players that signed immediately after the tourney by Gillis. Sound positioning and when he played in the play-offs he did a good job.  I  thought he was a keeper ( still do ) but he had trouble getting back into the line up. For what ever reason ( I've heard attitude) he never got another real chance. Shinkaruk I wanted to succeed primarily because I was absolutely sick of players that were good two way players, a 200' players etc I wanted some one to watch the game not check the heck out the opposition, I got sick of the lack of entertainment I thought Shinkaruk might be a blessing come true

[Baggins]

45 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

This was nothing to do with Hutton. He could have sent Cracknell down before the season even started he's a career minor leaguer At that stage he was an unknown commodity and as a AHL regular had a better chance to pass through he was 30+. Vcr was the only team that chose to sign Cracknell, prior to camp. Any one cold have had him and frankly he never beat any doors down. What kept him up was the fact JB screwed up and he didn't want to admit it

Cracknell was on the team because, unlike Corrado, he actual impressed in preseason. It's about earning your spot. Those that don't often wind up on waivers. Such is life for the borderline players.

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

If I'm honest when Kassian was brought in for Hodgson I thought he was a winner. I wasn't aware of his habit. He used to hang out with Tanev and just gald they managed to break that up. But yeah he looked very promising. Lack I never liked always seemed unconventional and at times pure luck. His best ability was his interviews and his Mom was some looker . Corrado in his first young prospects tourney in Penticton looked great and he was only 1 of two players that signed immediately after the tourney by Gillis. Sound positioning and when he played in the play-offs he did a good job.  I  thought he was a keeper ( still do ) but he had trouble getting back into the line up. For what ever reason ( I've heard attitude) he never got another real chance. Shinkaruk I wanted to succeed primarily because I was absolutely sick of players that were good two way players, a 200' players etc I wanted some one to watch the game not check the heck out the opposition, I got sick of the lack of entertainment I thought Shinkaruk might be a blessing come true

Obviously,we were all fans of these players when they were part of the Canucks...and we tend to overvalue them as players (all fanbases are guilty)...At the end of the day though,you realize that pretty much all the NHL teams have similar type players on their roster....For one reason or another,none of them fit the blueprint for what JB is trying to do here..

[Me_]

On August 12, 2016 at 0:35 PM, Fred65 said:

No one likes every move that any GM makes ..... but JB

 

Traded Kesler for Sutter and Gudbranson, I'd say he won that trade filled holes and much younger

Baertschi for a 2nd round pick. I'd say he won that one too. Second round picks on average have a 20% chance of making the NHL

Forsling for Celnedening bad trade what was he thinking.

Dorsett for a 3rd round pick good trade but bad contract

Vey for a 2nd round pick, I'll wait to see how he does in Calgary but it doesn't look good

Brisboise for Lack still in limbo

Kassisan for Prust ...both loosers

Shinkaruk for Granlund  Calgary won that one even if it's just potential

Coraddo to Leafs for no return diaster

 

Added via draft

Virtanen

Boeser

Demko

Tryamkin

Juolevi

 

All in all I'd give him a B+

SPELLING IS NOT THIS ONE'S STRONG POINT.

[sonoman]

3 hours ago, Me_ said:

SPELLING IS NOT THIS ONE'S STRONG POINT.

Ai seen wai wurst on dis form  

[Fred65]

15 hours ago, Me_ said:

SPELLING IS NOT THIS ONE'S STRONG POINT.

Nope I never was and I don't check what I've posted. But I'm really good at spherical trigonometry how about you