Training Camp day #1 - Odds and Ends

[Cramarossa]

1 hour ago, Honey-Badger-Hansen said:

Happen to be heading up to whistler for the weekend, are these practices usually open to the public??

I read somewhere that they are. I think it was on their snapchat. 

[nuck-lifer]

3 minutes ago, riffraff said:

All makes sense.  Without knowing the level of his shot improvement and based on the above I suppose it's worth a try.  Eye test shows a weak shot so far as even killing some offensive opps where it was obvious he looked to dish off rather than shoot in seeming good position.

 

for my money I'd rather see Hutton afforded this opp.  I've seen more creativity and off. Potential from him in a few shifts than tanev to date.

 

not downplaying tanevs abilities but it's just another surprising decision of deployment by a coach who obviously knows more about hockey than anyone typing away.

yes, I like him on the 2nd unit PP unit. Apparently he has also improved on getting his shot away quicker. Positives are he does hold the line well, and he has excellent defensive awareness and can get back to stop shorthanded opportunities better then any other D we have. He also knows when and when not to pinch well, unlike Bieksa back in the day..  

Cannot wait until some game action to where everyone is truly at.

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, Nuckles80 said:

I would dispute that. Given our depth, he's better off in the AHL, unless he's 'light years' ahead of any NHL player. Reality is you don't want him subbing in and out in the bottom 6. If that's the case, he's better off playing every night in Utica, learning the ropes, getting top 6 minutes and PP time as that is the role we want to develop him for.

 

Look at our lines - he really isn't going to supplant any of these vets unless he's just lighting it up in the preseason

 

Sedin Sedin Erikson

Burrows Sutter Rodin

Baer Bo Hansen

Etem Grandlund Dorsett

 

Moreover, you have a player in Guance  (or even Zalewski) who has/have 'earned' a shot in the NHL in the bottom 6 and is / are ready to take the next step. Both are better suited to the bottom six role and are better suited to be the 'depth' guy coming in and out of the lineup. And this of course ignores any of the PTO guys they signed showing they can be the depth guy as well.

 

Unless Rodin is not ready physically or craps the bed, as does Guance, my bet is Virtanen is starting in the AHL and is going to have to 'earn' his way into the NHL, like most of their young players

 

 

I expect Jake will earn his way to the nhl, just like many players; by having a good camp and bringing a physical presence to the right side. And it isn't a question of where it is best for Jake to play, his needs can be overridden by the teams needs.

 I would be happy if Rodin can outplay and provide more this year than Jake, I just doubt it.

 

[Nuckles80]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

Baer and Horvat are a pair on the 2nd line based on the comments by WD yesterday.  Media believes that Hansen will be their RW.

Well I think Willie is just being pr friendly (last year he had mentioned he had reservations about their defensive play together and their +/- (while not a best measure was painful). I don't think he liked that pair defensively last year. Now, it could be because Vrby was making a mess, or it could be that they may not be very effective together in their own end (some players if they gel offensively can start cheating if they are paired and forget their 200ft game), or perhaps it was just adjusting to the second line role.

 

I cant see him keeping them together if they start off poorly in their own end again, much will depend on matchups. If they are the third line and sutter taking the heavy defensive minutes, it may last longer.

 

I think alot is up in the air based on player performance in the preseason and first 10 games or so. It may take that long to get an understanding of what the 2/3 lines look like. 1 and 4 are likely pretty set for at least that period.

[riffraff]

Just now, nuck-lifer said:

yes, I like him on the 2nd unit PP unit. Apparently he has also improved on getting his shot away quicker. Positives are he does hold the line well, and he has excellent defensive awareness and can get back to stop shorthanded opportunities better then any other D we have. He also knows when and when not to pinch well, unlike Bieksa back in the day..  

Cannot wait until some game action to where everyone is truly at.

I find it interesting that even those that are undying tanev fans to the point of overvaluing, (if possible) would concede that he is certainly not the first dman that would come to mind for the pp - 1 or 2.

 

almost like WD is on a pre season troll job.

[VIC_CITY]

33 minutes ago, apollo said:

I'm at camp! Met a bunch of players too already. 

 

Didn't catch Miller's group but had a good chat with him. Such a nice guy! 

 

Bo looking jacked too. Was dressed head to toe Harry Rosen 

Whaaaaaat?! Lucky guy! You're officially our insider

 

 

[nuck-lifer]

2 minutes ago, mll said:

Baer and Horvat are a pair on the 2nd line based on the comments by WD yesterday.  Media believes that Hansen will be their RW.

Yes, this should our 2nd line. 

Hansen has so many intangibles and one big one is his defensive game. He's playing great at the worlds as well. This will help Baer/ Bo players continue to work on their offensive game and hopefully put up some good points.  Other nice option would be Eriksson and Hansen trading places just to throw off the competition. seeing lotsa potential for success either way.

[mll]

1 minute ago, Nuckles80 said:

Well I think Willie is just being pr friendly. I don't think he liked that pair defensively last year. Now, it could be because Vrby was making a mess, or they may not be effective together in their own end, or perhaps it was just adjusting to the second line role.

 

I cant see him keeping them together if they start off poorly in their own end again, much will depend on matchups. If they are the third line and sutter taking the heavy defensive minutes, it may last longer.

 

I think alot is up in the air based on player performance in the preseason and first 10 games or so. It may take that long to get an understanding of what the 2/3 line look like. 1 and 4 are likely pretty set for at least that period.

Benning also said Baer starts on the 2nd.  Any line that goes up in the o-zone against the Sedins equivalent are going to get scored on - it's inevitable.  Btw Baer stayed in the lineup when he was struggling because they liked his d-game.  

The 2nd line is an offensive line in Benning's mind.  So the tough D minutes go to the 3rd line.  

[Nuckles80]

42 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

I'd like to think that, but I don't really think there's much of a market for a guy like Pedan. Every GM knows Benning will be placing a defenseman on waivers before the season starts and I even think there's a chance that Pedan clears. If he doesn't show any improvement during training camp then I don't think teams will be lining up to make a claim.

Pedan simply has to show he can play and its Biega that will move down. No team is going to want to pay a player like him or take him. Every team has a 28 yr old journeyman in their group. Many dont have a 23 yr old beast just learning to play at the nhl level who can skate, hit and is pretty mobile. No chance they allow Pedan to be lost unless he's awful in camp.

[Nuckles80]

14 minutes ago, gurn said:

I expect Jake will earn his way to the nhl, just like many players; by having a good camp and bringing a physical presence to the right side. And it isn't a question of where it is best for Jake to play, his needs can be overridden by the teams needs.

 I would be happy if Rodin can outplay and provide more this year than Jake, I just doubt it.

 

That's the point - the team doesn't 'need' him given their depth. He's not going to take a top 2 winger spot. And the bottom 6 has more than enough experience, grit, and young players competing who can play. Unless one of Gaunce, Etem or Rodin are just GOD awful I will put money on it that Jake starts in the AHL

 

Here's our bottom six wingers

Dorsett - no chance

 

Burrows or Hansen - no chance (at worst Burr is the depth guy but again, that would mean Virt doesn't get in 82 games). They aren't going to do that at this stage of his career, he needs to be playing to learn the pro game.

 

Etem - Ok perhaps but given Etem's experience, one way contract, and Virt's ability to move down, Etem will get some rope. Perhaps if he's awful and continues to be so by the 25 game mark Virt is called up

 

Gaunce - Has earned his shot to be a full timer by doing everything asked of him for 3 years in the AHL, developing his game, and has been 'groomed' to be a 3/4th line player. He is going to get the first chance regardless, again unless he's just a disaster, which he won't be.

 

Rodin - Sure could beat him out but again unlikely given he's come from Europe and unless he just obviously can't play he is certain to be given 20-25 games to see if he can manage.

Again, ignores any surprises like Zalewski, and PTO's - money is on Virt in the AHL
 

[Angry Goose]

I'd like to see Hansen with the Sedins again if Eriksson/Sedins look a little slow 5 on 5- I bet Jannik is primed to have another productive year.  Eriksson with Baer and Bo would probably do very well as all three seem to score the goals right around the net, especially Eriksson.  

[Angry Goose]

5 minutes ago, Nuckles80 said:

No chance they allow Pedan to be lost unless he's awful in camp.

I'd say that's the knock on him though- his battle level on defense seems real low especially compared to Biega.  Hope he proves otherwise

[riffraff]

5 minutes ago, Nuckles80 said:

Pedan simply has to show he can play and its Biega that will move down. No team is going to want to pay a player like him or take him. Every team has a 28 yr old journeyman in their group. Many dont have a 23 yr old beast just learning to play at the nhl level who can skate, hit and is pretty mobile. No chance they allow Pedan to be lost unless he's awful in camp.

Exactly right.

 

all about the ceiling.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

I'd like to see Hansen with the Sedins again if Eriksson/Sedins look a little slow 5 on 5- I bet Jannik is primed to have another productive year.  Eriksson with Baer and Bo would probably do very well as all three seem to score the goals right around the net, especially Eriksson.  

Out of +'s. 

 

 

[Borvat]

4 hours ago, nuck-lifer said:

With a completely healthy the roster this looks pretty set, although Burr is going to really have to step up his game to hold down that 2nd / 3rd line spot.

Here's hoping Etem really brings it to move up the line up as he has the tools for 2nd / 3rd line duties.

Virtanen or Stecher have to play well enough for JB to pull the trigger with Sbisa, Etem , or Gaunce for them to get in the line up. 

Of course injuries will happen and we'll have some solid depth for 2 D and 2 forwards to step in. 

Is this a playoff bound line up?

 

Sedin – Sedin – Eriksson

 

Burr- Sutter- Rodin

 

Bear - Horvat- Hansen

 

Etem – Granlund – Dorsett

 

13^th forward – Gaunce

 

 

 

Edler- Tanev

 

Hutton- Guddy

 

Sbisa – Larsen

 

7-8 D – Trymankin – Pedan

 

 

 

First call ups from Utica

 

Virt , Biega , Stecher

 

Depth Call ups

 

Cassels, Subban , Grenier

 

 

 

Off to Junior- Juolevi

 

 

I'm sorry but if Burrows is playing second line LW i am going to be shocked and disappointed.  I don't even see where he belongs on this roster anymore, he can't keep up.  I just don't get it. I was embarrassed for him last year.   

[Gurn]

2 minutes ago, Nuckles80 said:

That's the point - the team doesn't 'need' him given their depth. He's not going to take a top 2 winger spot. And the bottom 6 has more than enough experience, grit, and young players competing who can play. Unless one of Gaunce, Etem or Rodin are just GOD awful I will put money on it that Jake starts in the AHL

Of your bottom 6 only Hansen and Dorsett can be described as gritty.  Rodin is a large question mark, for most of last season Etem looked like a mistake and Gaunce is still a question mark as well.

[Nuckles80]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

Of your bottom 6 only Hansen and Dorsett can be described as gritty.  Rodin is a large question mark, for most of last season Etem looked like a mistake and Gaunce is still a question mark as well.

Yes but read what I said about how they will all get their 'shot' before Virt gets a real chance - not saying he can't play. I am saying others with more experience, one way contracts, who are 'just as good at a bottom six role and may be better for that role, and are expected to play that role long term with the club' will get a chance to take that role before him. They want him to develop into a top 6, they want those other guys other than maybe Rodin who's a gamble to be bottom 6 and they all have experience over him in that role. They are better suited to be here playing that role, he is better suited to be in the AHL learning the top six, and factor in contractual issues, promises from coming over from Europe, development paths (Gaunce has earned a shot etc).

 

Unless he just dominates and forces his way into the lineup, I just don't see how those players I mentioned are not given 20-25 games to see if they can stick. In that time he will be in the AHL

[Angry Goose]

7 minutes ago, Nuckles80 said:

Again, ignores any surprises like Zalewski

He's flown under the radar but I'm really stoked to see how he does.  

[VIC_CITY]

11 minutes ago, Nuckles80 said:

Pedan simply has to show he can play and its Biega that will move down. No team is going to want to pay a player like him or take him. Every team has a 28 yr old journeyman in their group. Many dont have a 23 yr old beast just learning to play at the nhl level who can skate, hit and is pretty mobile. No chance they allow Pedan to be lost unless he's awful in camp.

Well, Biega was noticeably better than Pedan last year, although Pedan didn't get much of an opportunity in Vancouver. So if Pedan hasn't improved, he will once again find himself behind Biega on our depth charts. I get it, Pedan has certain physical intangibles that you look for in a defenseman that Biega does not. Biega however busts his ass shift in, shift out, is a good character guy (by all accounts), doesn't make many mistakes and is therefore a sufficient #7/8 D.

 

I hope Pedan does take that next step forward, but if he doesn't he will be the odd man out. Regardless of how 'beastly' or mobile he is.

[Gurn]

1 minute ago, Nuckles80 said:

Yes but read what I said about how they will all get their 'shot' before Virt gets a real chance - not saying he can't play. I am saying others with more experience, one way contracts, who are 'just as good at a bottom six role and may be better for that role, and are expected to play that role long term with the club' will get a chance to take that role before him.

 

Unless he just dominates and forces his way into the lineup, I just don't see how those players I mentioned are not given 20-25 games to see if they can stick. In that time he will be in the AHL

I'd like to read what you said, but you keep changing it.