alfstonker Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 9:45 AM, Jiggs50 said: People like picking apart this team and complain about the defense or how small the team is or that it's not fast enough and etc etc.... Truth is ever since the dreaded 2011 finals, the Canucks biggest problem above all has been their inability to score. The team needs big scoring help. Even losing wouldn't suck if the Canucks could pot 2-3 goals a night. Would be at least somewhat entertaining. It's hard to criticize the Twins. They're really now 2nd line players thrusted into playing hard top line minutes. The rest of the roster minus Eriksson and maybe Horvat, just isn't offensively good enough. WD won't give JV proper minutes cause he's actually some what talented. I'm hoping Edler+ gets shipped out for a top 6 forward. Thank god Boeser is coming next year. No it is because he is either injured and not admitting it or he has just been slumping. He got a point last night and hopefully that will draw him out of his slump but let's not kid ourselves he was barely noticeable for most of the game DESPITE playing with Sven and Bo. His best period was the end of the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jimmy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 24 minutes ago, alfstonker said: Stecher - over 20 mins on NHL debut and 3rd star after 3 games. Bo - a player most teams would pay through the nose for. Hutton - a real find Gaunce - better with every game (even Green said he was unrecognisable after 11 games in Vancouver last season under their coaches) Baertschi - from a soft perimeter player to a competitive beast. Virtanen - a power forward work in progress. Granlund - transformed since he arrived. It is not that these players are not playing well (if you actually watched the games you would know that) it is just that they are snakebitten when it comes to scoring just now. When that changes as it is bound to, people like you will dissolve back into the shadows again. You are talking rubbish bud. it's not that they are snakebitten, its a long season and they are being called up on to be top tier guys. None of them are top 6...(talking about the forwards here not Hutton)...Horvat could some day, but these players are all 3 liners at best right now...albeit very good 3rd liners...but we need some legit scorers that can also bang...really surprised the Tre Croner line hasnt done much better, but we need for sure a nasty left wing for line 2 to compliment Sutter (someone wake him up the season's started) and Hansen, if we are going to be playing hank/dank/louie as our top line....but it wont happen. but hey we have some of the best 3rd liners in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtor Rod Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 1:45 AM, Jiggs50 said: People like picking apart this team and complain about the defense or how small the team is or that it's not fast enough and etc etc.... Truth is ever since the dreaded 2011 finals, the Canucks biggest problem above all has been their inability to score. The team needs big scoring help. Even losing wouldn't suck if the Canucks could pot 2-3 goals a night. Would be at least somewhat entertaining. It's hard to criticize the Twins. They're really now 2nd line players thrusted into playing hard top line minutes. The rest of the roster minus Eriksson and maybe Horvat, just isn't offensively good enough. WD won't give JV proper minutes cause he's actually some what talented. I'm hoping Edler+ gets shipped out for a top 6 forward. Thank god Boeser is coming next year. Poor Boeser has no idea what he is in for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Just Jimmy said: it's not that they are snakebitten, its a long season and they are being called up on to be top tier guys. None of them are top 6...(talking about the forwards here not Hutton)...Horvat could some day, but these players are all 3 liners at best right now...albeit very good 3rd liners...but we need some legit scorers that can also bang...really surprised the Tre Croner line hasnt done much better, but we need for sure a nasty left wing for line 2 to compliment Sutter (someone wake him up the season's started) and Hansen, if we are going to be playing hank/dank/louie as our top line....but it wont happen. but hey we have some of the best 3rd liners in the league. I think you are a bit harsh Jimmy. I just wish we were a bit bigger though. When you are not elite skilled, size makes a big difference. Another 10lbs on the likes of Sven, Granlund, Sutter etc would make all the difference but we are where we are. While I was happy with Juolevi I did say we should have picked a forward (Tkachuk, Nylander or Brown) purely because that is where we are going to be short when the Sedins retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 4:23 AM, Nuxfanabroad said: Belying it's mediocre-status, the team has been scraping the cap-ceiling the past number of years. They were saddled with contracts to aging, under-performing vets, paid for stats they could no longer live up to. Excessive injuries during Torts' stint, & last yr, exacerbated the shortcomings. I remember making 2 threads in Jan. 2015, advocating they sell aggressively. Wanted to go to youth/cap space more quickly, but I don't really know how that would've turned out? A bold & savvy GM might have been able to navigate out of rough waters; but at the same time would've had to draft exceedingly well. Basically, a Sam Pollock/Kenny Holland is all we ask of you! Appears our 'black hole' of drafting from about 2007~2013 has created issues we just can't patch over. Factor in a league's apparent hatred of our franchise, & it's a mighty steep hill to climb. ANOTHER variable to consider: Are we beholden to contracts that we wouldn't move on from(maybe because the franchise has such a dubious history, in this regard)? Twins(for so many reasons, mostly accepted by all) 14,000,000 Edler(part of the Swedish-3, seems they really didn't want to move him) 5 mill Burrows(polarizing debate..do we really need one?!) 4.5 mill (so much of this felt owed, due to past underpayment) Miller(could be ANY vet 'tender; after the last famed duo, seems the team felt compelled to spend heavy in this position) 6 mill, + almost a mill(800 K) to a past 'tending star Total..about 30,000,000 cap on these 5. To illustrate this last detail, consider the teams that built from scorched earth rebuild, say, since about 2000(Pitt, LA, Wash, Chi). Witness how these teams dumped stars(especially Pitt, who almost left town/bankrupt). They gave names like Kovalev & Jagr the bum's rush out..Wash did the same with JJ. Wash(Leonosis) were very aggressive in dumping $ commitments, I recall. Are we correct in our opposite approach in this issue? At the least, it poses an interesting debate. We can't bottom-out, due to retained vets. Yet we have a more 'gradual' roster-transition, with kids mostly drafted in lower spots. Who can be taught by long time stars. With such an approach, it seems natural for shortcomings(namely: skill/scoring) to linger for a longer period. say there good post! add Errickson 6 million to the 14 an you get 20 million an supporting cast other than Bo an hopeful player Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 28 minutes ago, alfstonker said: I think you are a bit harsh Jimmy. I just wish we were a bit bigger though. When you are not elite skilled, size makes a big difference. Another 10lbs on the likes of Sven, Granlund, Sutter etc would make all the difference but we are where we are. While I was happy with Juolevi I did say we should have picked a forward (Tkachuk, Nylander or Brown) purely because that is where we are going to be short when the Sedins retire. Imo based on the void that is our defensive prospects and potential of the above mentioned draftees, that picking Juolevi was the right call as dman of his caliber are coveted greatly because they are so hard to find. we do have Bo, and Brock in the pipe so it's not all gloom when talking young centres. as well I believe it is possible to exchange some of our expiring contracts for other high end top six forwards with the cap space, possible fa signings and/or trade. i have a feeling, not that it means much, that this trade deadline could be a lot different than prior years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 When a team goes through the renewal process, they are out of the playoffs for a number of years. The Canucks are in the middle of that right now. What I'm looking for watching the games is signs which point towards future success. I think we saw some of that last night with the play of Stecher and the Horvat line showed some spark on their goal. Heck, Virtanen started it with a confident move in the slot and a shot that the goalie couldn't handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 21 hours ago, xereau said: This team is still saddled with the new age country club, both financially and mentally, that Gillis left us with. Still blaming gillis...yawn. This is bennings aquallini garbage team he's assemble it. So far the super scout has produced zero NHL regulars virtanen might fill in but that's a big if. His projects have been hit and miss at best and and have cost parts of the future frosling seconds fifths ect. the team is no closer to being a real " win now " team than the day he got it if anything it's gone backwards. He managed to get a few good prospects but he also got to pick in the top ten twice already. Gillis left us horvat gaunce Hutton markstom not bad for a team that won for ten years, one game from a cup and how many president thropies. Now bs ownership and management want to call making just making the playoff the goal.lol. it doesn't matter who the hand puppet this team can't move forward until a new ownership is in place. 2012 was the first full year aqua had full control it's been a flushing toilet ever since. The unrealistic mandate to "win now" in hopes of scraping a 2 playoff home games is as short sighted as one can. Empty seats say nobodies buying the bs garbage coming from management and ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positive Canuck Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On October 29, 2016 at 7:39 AM, Alflives said: I like your wishful thinking, but we don't have two young elite forwards like the Twins. Maybe Boeser is one? Thinking positive, A TOP 3 forward at the draft. A $&!#load of Cap next season to buy a stud (not another euro ghost pansy like Erikkson) Boeser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positive Canuck Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 6 hours ago, alfstonker said: No it is because he is either injured and not admitting it or he has just been slumping. He got a point last night and hopefully that will draw him out of his slump but let's not kid ourselves he was barely noticeable for most of the game DESPITE playing with Sven and Bo. His best period was the end of the second. i thought he was noticeable for most of the game and it wasn't in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Every case is different but look at some of these scorched earth rebuild teams and see just how long it takes Pittsburgh - missed playoffs from 02-05 (5 years) Chicago - missed playoffs from 03-08 (5 years) LA - 03-09 (6 years) Toronto and Edmonton are special cases Teams that have taken a similar route that the Canucks are taking Rangers - missed the playoffs in 2010 (1 year) Bruins - missed the playoffs 06-07 (2 years) Montreal - missed the playoffs in 03, 07, 12, 16 (1 year each time) Buffalo - during Benning's tenure - 02-04 (3 years) Detroit - managed to renew while not missing the playoffs since 84 - special case The bottom line is that the softer rebuild takes considerably less time, and teams don't get into a boom and bust cycle. Scorched earth gives you higher highs and lower lows but it's not as if cups aren't won using either route. The Canucks have been out of the playoffs 1 year. I'm not counting the Torts year. I consider that to be an outlier. The fan base can't take being out of the playoffs for 5 years in a row. They would have to rename Rogers Arena "The Morgue" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 23 minutes ago, Positive Canuck said: Thinking positive, A TOP 3 forward at the draft. A $&!#load of Cap next season to buy a stud (not another euro ghost pansy like Erikkson) Boeser. Thinking positive in an ironic sort of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Just dreaming but... Baertschi-Patrick-Boeser. make it happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BertaNuck Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 The sad part is if vancouver was to finish dead last this year they would fall 3 or 4 spots in the draft. this team is cursed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 33 minutes ago, Positive Canuck said: Thinking positive, A TOP 3 forward at the draft. A $&!#load of Cap next season to buy a stud (not another euro ghost pansy like Erikkson) Boeser. What Cap? Even though we suck we will still be right up at cap limit next season with all our RFAs this year. In two years though when the Sedins and Sbisa come off the books we will have Cap to hopefully sign a first line star. Tavares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 problem was Gillis had given NTC's and kept to many players for long term contracts and Benning has fixed a lot of that but still we see some of it.After this yea Miller gone or resigned for cheap,Burrows gone,maybe a buyout of Dorsett or trade him,Larsen gone, Rodin we are still not sure about,but this team again will be a lot different and Stetcher will be on the team this or next year.I see better days ahead,but for now we are not to bad just need a tweak or two and we will be decent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I like how Benning focused on revamping our D. He did that in a remarkably short amount of time. Not worried about where we're going defensively. Still, it's going to take time for our D to really get better. My issue is the fact that scoring has been our Achilles heel for five straight years, and we didn't get that "big scoring winger." This is my biggest criticism of Benning from the off-season. We needed to fill that hole and we didn't. Instead we went forward knowing the hole still exists. Now we have Eriksson trying to do way too much instead of stapling him with the Sedins until it works while a scoring winger would take the pressure off to balance out the second line. So, it's been five years of not being able to score. At this rate, it'll be another five years before it's fixed. That would be an entire decade. Looks like we're smack dab in the middle of a tank (at least from a scoring/forwards perspective). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 37 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: I like how Benning focused on revamping our D. He did that in a remarkably short amount of time. Not worried about where we're going defensively. Still, it's going to take time for our D to really get better. My issue is the fact that scoring has been our Achilles heel for five straight years, and we didn't get that "big scoring winger." This is my biggest criticism of Benning from the off-season. We needed to fill that hole and we didn't. Instead we went forward knowing the hole still exists. Now we have Eriksson trying to do way too much instead of stapling him with the Sedins until it works while a scoring winger would take the pressure off to balance out the second line. So, it's been five years of not being able to score. At this rate, it'll be another five years before it's fixed. That would be an entire decade. Looks like we're smack dab in the middle of a tank (at least from a scoring/forwards perspective). The problem is that Benning doest have any major assets to trade. Right now he might be able to trade Edler or Tanev, miller and Hansen. But right now all of those guys are needed. If Benning is smart he will see that this year isn't going to be a good year for the Canucks and instead focus on next year. Trade players at and near the deadline for more then they're worth and set yourself up for a good year next year with younger players. Canucks could have a really good team in a couple years but it means getting younger and saying goodbye to vets.(Bye burrows, hi labate. Bye Miller, hi Markstrom, demko, garteig.) This could be a great development year for the Canucks and next year we could see a whole new young team. Also won't be surprised to see Kane here next year even though I don't really like the guy.We really need some more top line players. Sven-Bo-Boeser Sedins-Eriksson Granlund-sutter-Virtanen Labate-Gaunce-Zelewski Tanev-juolevi Hutton-Guddy Stetcher-tryamkin Pedan-Subban Thats a good, solid all round, young defence with some young experienced players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjr Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I am just upset at Eriksson. That deal looked like former Bruin management rewarding a former Bruin player. He has done nothing. I thought we were paying for offence and now WD is pumping his tires about doing all kinds of other things. I want offence. Grrrrrr in a grumpy mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 1 hour ago, RetroCanuck said: The problem is that Benning doest have any major assets to trade. Right now he might be able to trade Edler or Tanev, miller and Hansen. But right now all of those guys are needed. If Benning is smart he will see that this year isn't going to be a good year for the Canucks and instead focus on next year. Trade players at and near the deadline for more then they're worth and set yourself up for a good year next year with younger players. Canucks could have a really good team in a couple years but it means getting younger and saying goodbye to vets.(Bye burrows, hi labate. Bye Miller, hi Markstrom, demko, garteig.) This could be a great development year for the Canucks and next year we could see a whole new young team. Also won't be surprised to see Kane here next year even though I don't really like the guy.We really need some more top line players. Sven-Bo-Boeser Sedins-Eriksson Granlund-sutter-Virtanen Labate-Gaunce-Zelewski Tanev-juolevi Hutton-Guddy Stetcher-tryamkin Pedan-Subban Thats a good, solid all round, young defence with some young experienced players. Don't disagree. It just gets frustrating with the "win now" versus "next year" scenario we always talk about. I can live with sacrificing this season for the reasons you mention. We may not have a choice. Totally get it. Our hands our tied with tradable assets and next year we have contracts coming off the books. Everything does make sense for next year. Having said that, though, the "next years" have to start paying off. Next year will be the sixth season we've watched the team struggle to score. You'd think by year four of the Benning regime we'd be able to score, or be on our way to increasing our production. I think that's fair. I like your line-up, I just think we need more next season. Boeser won't be top line right away, although he'll likely get some minutes there. But I do like that line. There are really only four other spots to improve scoring from what you have - Granlund, LaBate, Gaunce, Zelewski. With the addition of Boeser, everyone else will be a lock. Will be interesting to see who gets those four spots. Hopefully two out if four will be able to put the puck in the net. Would like to see LaBate up here soon to see what he can spark. Loved his impact in the pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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