[discussion] the logic behind Benning saying he won't ask anyone to waive their NTC

[The Bookie]

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

But with Dorsett injured, and Rodin possibly not coming back in time to get enough games in to qualify for the draft then how do we meet the expansion requirements?

Just to focus on this one bit - I think DD would still meet the exposure requirement having played 71 last year, no?

 

(it sounds cold but it was the first thing I thought of when his surgery was announced)

[ForsbergTheGreat]

43 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

I love Trevor Linden but more and more I am becoming frustrated with this management group when it comes to trades and overall roster decisions.  They finished 3rd worst last year and are 3rd worst so far this year.  Now there is talk of resigning Miller??   They are trading way too many draft picks and are overrating the players they seek out to acquire. 

I kind of agree.  They reason that Miller keeps Demko in AHL to develop, (which is fine).  But it's not like Miller needs to be resigned for that to happen, there will be 100 other cheaper options for short term back up guys available in the summer.  Markstrom deserves to be giving some slack and allowed to run with it. 

 

It's almost like they are pre-laying the excuses for when they can't find a trading partner.  Sort of like they did with Hamhuis.

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

God, I certainly hope we don't trade Tanev for another one of those "fill in the age gap" guys, which Spooner (a smurf) would be.  I wonder if our owner is going to say enough of this trying to compete already, and give the ORDER to trade the NTCs?  

And didn't JB force Garrison to waive his NTC?  So which is it for JB?  

I think the owner is going to have a meeting with management very soon. The team has now become the laughing stock in the league and it is not because of the standings.

I think if Gillis and Gillman sign with the Islanders and remove the millions paid for thier salaries, then the hammer might come down on this circus of incompetence.

As it stands now the Canucks are 5 years from making the playoffs, maybe. Mostly because other teams in the division are so far ahead of them in rebuilds/re-tools.

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

22 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I think the owner is going to have a meeting with management very soon. The team has now become the laughing stock in the league and it is not because of the standings.

I think if Gillis and Gillman sign with the Islanders and remove the millions paid for thier salaries, then the hammer might come down on this circus of incompetence.

As it stands now the Canucks are 5 years from making the playoffs, maybe. Mostly because other teams in the division are so far ahead of them in rebuilds/re-tools.

 

 

I’m curious to which teams are so much better off? Oilers, sure, flames you might make a case for but Arizona I’m not sold on, you’ll really have to explain how they are farther ahead when most of their prospects have regressed or haven’t make any sort of NHL impact.

 

And the California teams are coming to the end of their windows.

 

I would say kings, sharks and Ducks have 2…. maybe three years tops, of being a contending team left.

In 4 years, Carter will be 36, Gaborik will be 38, Brown 36, Quick 35. And these players will still be under contract taking up over 20 million in cap. 

In 4 years, Marleau, Ward, Martin and Thornton will be gone. Pavelski will be 36, Burns 35, Vlasic 33

And in 4 years  Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler will all 35, still be under contract taking up 24 million in cap.

[Drakrami]

Prust for a freaking 2nd round. Because 80% of people here called it. 

[TheGuardian_]

42 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

I’m curious to which teams are so much better off? Oilers, sure, flames you might make a case for but Arizona I’m not sold on, you’ll really have to explain how they are farther ahead when most of their prospects have regressed or haven’t make any sort of NHL impact.

 

And the California teams are coming to the end of their windows.

 

I would say kings, sharks and Ducks have 2…. maybe three years tops, of being a contending team left.

In 4 years, Carter will be 36, Gaborik will be 38, Brown 36, Quick 35. And these players will still be under contract taking up over 20 million in cap. 

In 4 years, Marleau, Ward, Martin and Thornton will be gone. Pavelski will be 36, Burns 35, Vlasic 33

And in 4 years  Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler will all 35, still be under contract taking up 24 million in cap.

Those team's management groups actually make decisions that help the team.

 

Yes Arizona isn't doing so great right now but the have a plethora of young talent and with this chase to the bottom of the standings with the Canucks will get 2 more players in the draft, one that is likely to make it and the other with a very good chance. If looked at the right way they are going for Patrick or a stud dman.

 

SanJose already has "replacements" for Marleau at least, Thorton would be harder, but their 3rd line is almost as good as the Nuck #1 line now.

 

Of the other three Perry, looks to be declining the quickest but in three years they will still be younger than the Sedins are now and the Nucks will icing rookies and a couple of players with less then 2 years experience on the top line.

 

Those teams also have players in the 25 year range already taking up more important roles. Besides if they want a player, they will just trade for what they need.

 

In 4 years there might not be a season but if there is then the cap is likely to go up so no big deal there.

 

A being a contending team is not the same as being a playoff team, they might not be considered contending but they will still be playoff teams.

 

The other option to take from your post is that the Canucks will just have to wait for them to get bad and truly the way Linden is running the team, if the Sedins want to re-sign for another year or two he won't have any choice but to do it and then he will just do nothing, so you are probably correct on that count.

[TheGuardian_]

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, canuktravella said:

benning needs to  trade tanev before his ntc kicks in  for a scoring winger  as for hansen he could be traded for a overpayment at deadline. burrows and miller at deadline for picks and a chance at a cup. Maybe edler and sedins at draft  will say to management we want a cup trade us to contenders. We can resign burrows miller to cheap contracts next yr if they want to return up to them its win win for canucks getting bunch of draft picks to load up on more prospects gives vets a chance to win cup 

Yes, yes, and yes.  Will JB do these things though?  We could sure get A LOT more excited about the team's future if he did, right?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

26 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Those team's management groups actually make decisions that help the team.

 

Yes Arizona isn't doing so great right now but the have a plethora of young talent and with this chase to the bottom of the standings with the Canucks will get 2 more players in the draft, one that is likely to make it and the other with a very good chance. If looked at the right way they are going for Patrick or a stud dman.

But the draft lottery is in play.  There's no guaranteeing that canucks don't end up with the better pick.  If the draft happens today they only have a 2.0% better chance at the #1 overall picks and a 1.7% chance at the 2nd overall.  I'd say ranking there future based a lottery that hasn't even happened isn't really something good to make a basis off.

 

 

26 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

SanJose already has "replacements" for Marleau at least, Thorton would be harder, but their 3rd line is almost as good as the Nuck #1 line now.

 

Hertl and Couture are going to have to carry a huge load of the weight. because there isn't too much outside of that.  

 

26 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Of the other three Perry, looks to be declining the quickest but in three years they will still be younger than the Sedins are now and the Nucks will icing rookies and a couple of players with less then 2 years experience on the top line.

 

Those teams also have players in the 25 year range already taking up more important roles. Besides if they want a player, they will just trade for what they need.

They don't though.  They've been trading thier picks and prospect pool just to remain competitive year after year.  Kings haven't have gave up back to back 1st round picks for rentals two years straight.  There current "replacements" aren't more promising than our current young core. 

 

 

26 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

In 4 years there might not be a season but if there is then the cap is likely to go up so no big deal there.

 

A being a contending team is not the same as being a playoff team, they might not be considered contending but they will still be playoff teams.

They will be in a worse off place than canucks are in Old declined vet taking up most of the cap, with a shallow prospect pool. 

 

26 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

The other option to take from your post is that the Canucks will just have to wait for them to get bad and truly the way Linden is running the team, if the Sedins want to re-sign for another year or two he won't have any choice but to do it and then he will just do nothing, so you are probably correct on that count.

I'm just saying, oilers are the only really team in our division with a bright future.  Making the claim that canucks are 5 years out from even making they playoffs doesn't have much basis to back it up.  And it isn't even taking into count the rest of divisions decline. 

[Lockhart]

He doesn't really need to "ask" Burrows to waive his NTC, Burrows already said he'd do it if that's what management wants. Plus the players agents can go to management and say they are open to being moved at the deadline.

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, Lockhart said:

He doesn't really need to "ask" Burrows to waive his NTC, Burrows already said he'd do it if that's what management wants. Plus the players agents can go to management and say they are open to being moved at the deadline.

But Burr is a glue guy, who is good in the locker room.  JB can't trade those guys, aren't they just too valuable to his retool plan? 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, The Bookie said:

Just to focus on this one bit - I think DD would still meet the exposure requirement having played 71 last year, no?

 

(it sounds cold but it was the first thing I thought of when his surgery was announced)

 

You can't expose an injured player - so it all depends on his recovery. I'm just assuming that given the severity of the surgery that he's off the list. 

[JM_]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

God, I certainly hope we don't trade Tanev for another one of those "fill in the age gap" guys, which Spooner (a smurf) would be.  I wonder if our owner is going to say enough of this trying to compete already, and give the ORDER to trade the NTCs?  

And didn't JB force Garrison to waive his NTC?  So which is it for JB?  

 

Oh - didn't know that. Haven't watched any of BOS this year. All I've seen is one blog talking about him having 2C potential and a really good guy to have on the PP.

 

If Tanev is in play I would hope it would be for a lot more than that then if he's smurfey. 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

I’m curious to which teams are so much better off? Oilers, sure, flames you might make a case for but Arizona I’m not sold on, you’ll really have to explain how they are farther ahead when most of their prospects have regressed or haven’t make any sort of NHL impact.

 

And the California teams are coming to the end of their windows.

 

I would say kings, sharks and Ducks have 2…. maybe three years tops, of being a contending team left.

In 4 years, Carter will be 36, Gaborik will be 38, Brown 36, Quick 35. And these players will still be under contract taking up over 20 million in cap. 

In 4 years, Marleau, Ward, Martin and Thornton will be gone. Pavelski will be 36, Burns 35, Vlasic 33

And in 4 years  Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler will all 35, still be under contract taking up 24 million in cap.

 

LA is going to have to have some buyouts and are maybe hoping for some LTIR "luck" as well in a couple of years. Good luck moving Brown.

 

I see people suggesting gamesmanship, but honestly I think taking Jim at his word on this is probably sound. He doesn't seem to have the ability to not say whats actually on his mind. Its like Tony Gallagher slipped him a truth serum. 

 

It doesn't negate a contender giving Jim a call either, it just means Jim's not going to be shopping anyone hard, or at all that has a NTC. I think if MTL called and asked for Burr e.g., Jim would tell him and let him decide. 

 

I'd hate to see Tanev leave, but if he could get a true #1 LW or C under 25... that's pretty hard to turn down. Edler-Stecher isn't the worst pair going forward for a rebuilding team, with Juolevi coming soon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smokes]

In my eyes, they traded the players with no trade clauses they did not want to keep. The players they wanted to keep are still here and are valued. Doing the youth movement was one thing but to do it without good veteran leadership, you get teams that toil in the bottom for almost a decade i.e. the Coyotes, Buffalo, Toronto and Edmonton before they got lucky with McDavid and Mathews.

[stuman491]

23 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

 

 

Sure, but my point is that later round picks arn't going to jump into the line up within the next 3 years most likely.  They will most likely be long term development projects, assuming they develop into NHL players.  If you want to see something different in the Canucks lineup now or next season, later round picks arn't going to make any difference.  

 

EDIT: and for the record JB makes fair hockey deals.  So what if he isn't trying to nickle and dime other GM's?  

For that reason more teams are willing to deal with him. 

[Where'd Luongo?]

On 12/7/2016 at 1:45 PM, canuckledraggin said:

Because it's a great thing to say to the media. Sometimes you bluff and then show your cards and sometimes you bluff and leave them face down.

Exactly. Everyone always knew that the Canucks were open for business, meaning that the value of all our players were at an all time low. Now that they aren't being shopped, guess what happens?! Teams have to pay a premium to pull them away from us.

 

That has been my biggest pet peeve of Jimmy boy. He's too honest and nice of a guy and as a business manager you need to be cut throat and understand how to get the best out of what you have. To your point, imagine how hard it would be to win in poker if you told everyone what you had at the beginning of every hand.

[PhillipBlunt]

On 12/7/2016 at 11:43 AM, S'all Good Man said:

 

Thats a great question... he didn't mention Tanev, only that he wasn't going to ask NTC guys to waive. Tanman might be on his way to Boston for Spooner? I don't know if thats an equitable trade or not, I don't really know much about Spooner. 

If Tanev is traded to Boston for Spooner, a new GM will need to be hired. Tanev is way more valuable than Spooner. He could net two Spooners in return. 

[JM_]

8 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

If Tanev is traded to Boston for Spooner, a new GM will need to be hired. Tanev is way more valuable than Spooner. He could net two Spooners in return. 

 

Ah OK good to know. You see these articles all over talking about possible trades and I don't know enough about eastern teams sometimes to know how much is BS.... usually all of it. What intrigued me about it was Spooner being talked about as a real #2 C behind Horvat but thats probably some Boston writer hoping get Tanev 

[PhillipBlunt]

Yeah Spooner is an undersized forward that possesses average skill at best. Not worth what Tanev could get.