[Discussion] Benning shifts "focus to younger players"

[Crabcakes]

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/video/news--benning-on-hansen-trade/t-282627458/c-49863103

 

I want to talk about something that Benning said at the end of the Hansen interview last night that I think is revealing.

 

At the 7:40 mark, he talks about how they have been patient with a lot of the players who had been with the team a long time and how they are now shifting focus to the younger players who will form the core of the team going forward.

 

The key words here for me are Patient and Shifting Focus.

 

Patient - By patient, we know that when Benning took over, it was said that they wanted to give the old core another shot at the cup.  We all know how the sordid story played out.  Bottom line, despite tweaking the line up and trying to develop young players in a winning environment, it has become clear that what ever they did, the team was not going to make the play offs for the veteran core.

 

Is this what one (1) last shot at the cup looks like?  Does it take 3 years?

 

Obviously there are 3 main parts to the management of the Canucks and they all have to be in agreement or alignment as to the strategy that the team is going to follow.

 

1. General Manger
2. President
3. Ownership

 

I had been defending the above strategy that they were rolling out but the way Benning worded his comments made me think that although management was undoubtedly in agreement as to the strategy, it occurred to me that some of the group may have been compromising their true beliefs.  Since it is clear with the results from this year, and the knowledge that Father Time keeps marching on, that there were never going to be playoffs for the loyal veterans and as disappointing as the SCF loss was in 2011, they were just going to have to accept it.

 

I saw Jim almost smile when he was discussing the young kids he was able to trade for this deadline.  He really likes players who know how to score and I think he's found a couple.

 

Benning had become attached to Burrows and Hansen.  They are awesome veteran performers and character guys.  The moves that he made were very difficult but very necessary.  

 

Benning no longer has to be patient.  He can carry on with the strategy that he knows that he has to take.  It's not so different than the one that they have been implementing these 3 years.  All the things that were said ring true.  It's just that things have to move along one heck of a lot faster or else Bo Horvat will be past his prime before the team gets a legitimate shot at glory.

 

 

[HerrDrFunk]

Horvat is 21. He's not even in what are considered the prime years of an NHL player's career. The Sedins didn't even reach that point until they were 29-30. 

 

I think it's way too early to worry about wasting Horvat's chance at a cup.

[BowtieCanuck]

This team is further along in the 'rebuild' than a lot people realize. Scoring is the major part to fix right now and it seems this is the beginning. The MAJOR part of how serious this rebuild is will be shown in the next two free agency signing periods. We're still a few years away before those players we expect to become major contributors (Boeser mostly) will be able to take the scoring reins.

Personally, I'm prepared for at least a couple seasons of some painful hockey but when the team finally finds its stride, it's going to make teams scared to come play the Western Canada teams.

[Green Building]

I approve of the Jim Benning approach to rebuilding the Canucks which, for many fans here, began the day he traded Kesler away, not in the last 2 days. 

 

I await the draft with much anticipation, and I'm really excited to see what we have at next years camp. In the meantime, we have a few fresh faces to get used to. Let's see what our new 4th line energy guy, and our new playmaking Russian, have to offer.

 

edit: I don't think Benning was overly attached to Burrows or Hansen, he was simply keeping those 2 hardworking vets around to show the young guys how hard you have to work to make it in the NHL, and what your heart looks like when it's at MAX blue-green all game long. That job is done. Exit fan favourites, enter new prospects.

[luckylager]

I thought his "patience" was directed towards the Twins and Edler. They wanted Burr and Hansen around, Eriksson signed.

 

It's very possible Jimbo said "okay guys, I'll keep them around and give you Eriksson, but you gotta produce". But they haven't and he's lost his patience. Hansen and Burr gave 100% , how can you lose your patience with that, it's just that they were our declining and most valuable/moveable assets.

 

I've lost all patience for Edler and Eriksson. Those two are extremely disappointing.

[Crabcakes]

19 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Horvat is 21. He's not even in what are considered the prime years of an NHL player's career. The Sedins didn't even reach that point until they were 29-30. 

 

I think it's way too early to worry about wasting Horvat's chance at a cup.

Are you getting me?

 

I'm suggesting that for the last 3 years, ownership has been dominant in formulating strategy.  Now, there has been a shift from what the owner wants (a cup for his buddies, Hank and Dan) to what Benning wants.  Benning is now free to do what needs to be done.

 

Additionally, to my post above, culture has been passed down to players like Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Hutton and these guys will in turn teach new players like Goldobin and Dahlen what it means to be a Canuck.

 

This is my impression.  What do you think?

[Crabcakes]

2 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I thought his "patience" was directed towards the Twins and Edler. They wanted Burr and Hansen around, Eriksson signed.

 

It's very possible Jimbo said "okay guys, I'll keep them around and give you Eriksson, but you gotta produce". But they haven't and he's lost his patience. Hansen and Burr gave 100% , how can you lose your patience with that, it's just that they were our declining and most valuable/moveable assets.

 

I've lost all patience for Edler and Eriksson. Those two are extremely disappointing.

I just thought it was an odd word to use and thought it may be revealing something else.  Reading between the lines.

 

At any rate, Benning may now have free reign to do what needs to be done to make the team competitive again.  He was decisive this TDL.  Not like he has been since he earned the nick name Trader Jim when he traded Kesler and Garrison

[Nuxfanabroad]

33 minutes ago, BowtieCanuck said:

This team is further along in the 'rebuild' than a lot people realize. Scoring is the major part to fix right now and it seems this is the beginning. The MAJOR part of how serious this rebuild is will be shown in the next two free agency signing periods. We're still a few years away before those players we expect to become major contributors (Boeser mostly) will be able to take the scoring reins.

Personally, I'm prepared for at least a couple seasons of some painful hockey but when the team finally finds its stride, it's going to make teams scared to come play the Western Canada teams.

Agree with this. Within team make-ups in the cap era, I'd say turnarounds can happen more swiftly.

 

Like that they addressed the crease & blueline first. Good sequential-thinking.

[Noble 6]

______ - ______ - Boeser

Dahlen - Horvat - Goldobin

Baertschi - Gaudette - Virtanen

Granlund - Gaunce - Lockwood

 

I think that is a pretty deep group up front if we can find a 1LW and a center better than Horvat. I don't think our top-6 would be completely extraordinary when compared to the rest of the league, but our bottom-6 and overall depth would be pretty good. I think Dahlen, Goldobin and Baertschi will all be somewhat interchangeable in impact but I think Horvat would be great with Dahlen, and Goldobin can play RW.

 

Juolevi - Gudbranson

Hutton - Tanev

Tryamkin - Stetcher

Brisebois

 

I don't think Juolevi will be an elite #1, but he should be a great top-3 defenseman. Again, out depth is what makes our defense good. Juolevi will probably be a good #2/#3 and he can play with Gudbranson, who can handle the majority of the physical work. Hutton and Tanev will probably be top-4 guys. Tryamkin looks like he could be a solid second pairing guy and Stetcher looks like a top-4 guy. Brisebois' ceiling also could be a top-4 defenseman.

 

Demko

Markstrom

Garteig

 

Demko is looking good. Markstrom will probably be a 1B or a 2A by this time. Hopefully Garteig can be a backup.

 

I think all that's left for Benning to do is to go hard for 2-3 elite pieces. I think he's in a position now to do that now that he's accumulated this prospect/young depth.

[luckylager]

Just now, Crabcakes said:

He was decisive this TDL.  Not like he has been since he earned the nick name Trader Jim when he traded Kesler and Garrison

That was the year I actually advocated for a full blown tear down, and then it just seemed to drag out. That coupled with my hatred of losing has sent me down the path of the anti-tank.

 

Patience is the key to cooking a world class risotto; developing defensemen and powerforwards too.

 

But in my reading between the lines he's run out of patience with the Swedes and their insistence that they can get the job done with a little help from their friends.

 

Have this feeling he'll be leaning hard on Edler to waive prior to the expansion draft. Hopefully he tells him to his face - "waive or you'll be exposed." Not that Edler is terrible, just that the effort is rarely there and I'm really sick of his passive BS. I'd rather keep Sbisa.

 

We are going to be absolute dog crap without Hansen and Burr. It will be extremely painful for those of us that can't help but watch every game and have a competitive spirit to endure next season, let alone the rest of this one.

 

Edler's not going to be the difference maker in the Canucks being okay or terrible next year. I hope JB leans on him so hard he decides he wants to do what's best for the Canucks and decides to go wherever Jim wants him.

 

Sorry Alex, Burr and Hansen are gone, JB's patience is up - Pack Your S**t

[Crabcakes]

6 minutes ago, luckylager said:

That was the year I actually advocated for a full blown tear down, and then it just seemed to drag out. That coupled with my hatred of losing has sent me down the path of the anti-tank.

 

Patience is the key to cooking a world class risotto; developing defensemen and powerforwards too.

 

But in my reading between the lines he's run out of patience with the Swedes and their insistence that they can get the job done with a little help from their friends.

 

Have this feeling he'll be leaning hard on Edler to waive prior to the expansion draft. Hopefully he tells him to his face - "waive or you'll be exposed." Not that Edler is terrible, just that the effort is rarely there and I'm really sick of his passive BS. I'd rather keep Sbisa.

 

We are going to be absolute dog crap without Hansen and Burr. It will be extremely painful for those of us that can't help but watch every game and have a competitive spirit to endure next season, let alone the rest of this one.

 

Edler's not going to be the difference maker in the Canucks being okay or terrible next year. I hope JB leans on him so hard he decides he wants to do what's best for the Canucks and decides to go wherever Jim wants him.

 

Sorry Alex, Burr and Hansen are gone, JB's patience is up - Pack Your S**t

Shifting focus to younger players means that at least 2 younger players are going to see much more ice time for the remaining 20 games this season.  After that, we'll see what Trader Jim can do......

[Glory_Days]

Well, the major thing for the re-build will be Demko. Look at the top teams in the league, now look at the bottom...done? Notice a trend? lol

If you don't got goaltending, ain't going anywhere anytime fast.

 

If Demko can be as good as people think, franchise goalie, we're in luck! Hell if he can even be a good top 10-15 starting goalie we're doing good.

 

Crease out:

Demko - Potential franchise goalie, could be a top 5 goalie in league in 3-5 years, top 10 would be great as well.

 

Tryamkin, Stretcher, Hutton are all young and already playing in our top six. Juolevi at worst should be a very good top 4 D (disappointment) could be a top pairing or even #1 D, don't think he has franchise D potential though. If just one of Brisebois or Subban can make the leap to NHL and be decent, our D is looking pretty damn good! Maybe keep Gudbranson on for some extra grit/veteran presence.

 

Like most have said and realized, it's our offense that needs the work, luckily for us, that's easier to remedy then goaltending or defense.

Horvat is looking at worst, a great 2nd line center, at best, a legitimate 1st line center, may not rack up crazy points like some of them, more in the vein of Bergeron/Toews etc;

Boeser could be the sniper we desperately need. Gaudette looks like he can be a great bottom six center. If one of Dahlen or Goldobin can turn into a legit top six winger, that would be big win for us, if both can...*drools* Granlund, Baertschi, LaBate could be great depth players, if Virtanen can get his sh** together, could be a good third line physical presence that can put the puck in back of net at times.

 

What we really need, besides some of our prospects panning out, is another top center. Would be amazing if we can get a top 2 pick this draft. Nolan Patrick or Nico Hischeir would be perfect.

Patrick would be like another Horvat, just does everything well, no weakness in his game. Basically a 1A, 1B center combo. Hischeir isn't a complete player, but would bring a ton of offensive flair to our top six.

[Glory_Days]

@Horvat is a Boss

 

Like your lineup, 3rd line is exactly what I think/hope it will be in a few years. 4th line, so hard to say, 4th lines usually have such a high turnover rate, wouldn't complain about that line though.

Goldobin/Dahlen on same line makes me a tad uneasy, soft, which is fine if you have the crazy skill to back it up ie; Marner, Kane, Panarin etc; don't think those two can bring it to that level though. Ideally one is on 1st line, other is on 2nd.

 

I think Horvat can be a 1st line center, especially with the right line-mates. Would he be a top 5 or top 10 center, very unlikely, but he wouldn't be one that slots in there just because we don't have anything better. I don't think we will be able to get that legit, high scoring near ppg first line center, unless we win a top 2 lottery pick this draft and one of Hischeir/Patrick slightly exceed expectations.

 

To be fair, how many teams actual have (what some would deem) 1st line center who are close to or over a ppg?  Maybe like 10-15 teams?

 

Teams in playoffs who have a center in the vein of Horvat (what he could be point wise) as their 1st line center.

Montreal - Galchenyuk

Ottawa - Turris

Boston - Bergeron

NY Rangers - err...Stepan or Ziba??

Minnestoa - Staal or Koivu???

St Louis - Stastny

Anaheim - Getzlaf (Isn't ppg anymore, still a very good 1st line center)

Calgary - Monahan

[Xbox]

I have a lot more faith in our GM now than I did a week ago.

[Noble 6]

14 minutes ago, Glory_Days said:

@Horvat is a Boss

 

Like your lineup, 3rd line is exactly what I think/hope it will be in a few years. 4th line, so hard to say, 4th lines usually have such a high turnover rate, wouldn't complain about that line though.

Goldobin/Dahlen on same line makes me a tad uneasy, soft, which is fine if you have the crazy skill to back it up ie; Marner, Kane, Panarin etc; don't think those two can bring it to that level though. Ideally one is on 1st line, other is on 2nd.

 

I think Horvat can be a 1st line center, especially with the right line-mates. Would he be a top 5 or top 10 center, very unlikely, but he wouldn't be one that slots in there just because we don't have anything better. I don't think we will be able to get that legit, high scoring near ppg first line center, unless we win a top 2 lottery pick this draft and one of Hischeir/Patrick slightly exceed expectations.

 

To be fair, how many teams actual have (what some would deem) 1st line center who are close to or over a ppg?  Maybe like 10-15 teams?

 

Teams in playoffs who have a center in the vein of Horvat (what he could be point wise) as their 1st line center.

Montreal - Galchenyuk

Ottawa - Turris

Boston - Bergeron

NY Rangers - err...Stepan or Ziba??

Minnestoa - Staal or Koivu???

St Louis - Stastny

Anaheim - Getzlaf (Isn't ppg anymore, still a very good 1st line center)

Calgary - Monahan

 

Lot of good points and arguments.

 

While Dahlen definitely isn't Virtanen or Horvat physically, he doesn't play a perimeter game. I think he plays the game similar to Horvat in the sense that one way or another, the puck is getting to the front of the net, whether he passes it off or takes it there himself. Similar to Arvidsson, although maybe not the same level of impact. I think Goldobin would really flourish playing with two guys likes that who can open up space for him but still have good hockey IQs. I'm not sold on either Dahlen or Goldobin being 1st line players, but we will see. It will also depend on who is up there, as one of them could move up to balance the lines.

 

I definitely agree that Horvat still could be our 1C. I was saying that even last year. I think his impact could be on the level of a Bergeron, but his style of play makes me think of a stronger, less agile Toews. I put him down as a 2C because ideally we land an elite playmaker who can play with Boeser and put up points. He wouldn't necessarily be more important than Horvat, just get the bulk of the offensive glory. Of course, that's still a longshot and I would be content with playing Horvat as our future 1C.

[Glory_Days]

8 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Lot of good points and arguments.

 

While Dahlen definitely isn't Virtanen or Horvat physically, he doesn't play a perimeter game. I think he plays the game similar to Horvat in the sense that one way or another, the puck is getting to the front of the net, whether he passes it off or takes it there himself. Similar to Arvidsson, although maybe not the same level of impact. I think Goldobin would really flourish playing with two guys likes that who can open up space for him but still have good hockey IQs. I'm not sold on either Dahlen or Goldobin being 1st line players, but we will see. It will also depend on who is up there, as one of them could move up to balance the lines.

 

I definitely agree that Horvat still could be our 1C. I was saying that even last year. I think his impact could be on the level of a Bergeron, but his style of play makes me think of a stronger, less agile Toews. I put him down as a 2C because ideally we land an elite playmaker who can play with Boeser and put up points. He wouldn't necessarily be more important than Horvat, just get the bulk of the offensive glory. Of course, that's still a longshot and I would be content with playing Horvat as our future 1C.

I agree with you on most of your points. I'm not familiar enough with Dahlen to argue if he's soft or not, just looking at his size, I figured he would be on the softer side. I know Goldobin is.

As for either Dahlen or Goldobin being 1st line material, yeah, I doubt either of them are legit 1st liners, but how many teams actually have 3 players on their 1st line whom you would deem actual 1st line players? Not many, and the some that do likely lack talent on the 2nd line. If Boeser pans out like we think/hope he will, bonafide 1st liner, one of Horvat or *insert center name here* also hopefully a true 1st line player. 2/3 is pretty good, especially if it means you spread the skill/scoring around.

I prefer two really good lines to one amazing line. If that line gets shut down, tend to lose games, even worse in playoffs when match-ups come into play.

 

Bottom line is...re-build is on! Let's all hope our prospects and younglings exceed our wildest expectations! If not...we'll have to burn JB at the stake!

[Guest]

It might be a mistake, but I want to see Goldobin with the twins for now. They pass to him, he scores. Could be a Burrows without the agitating 

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

I just thought it was an odd word to use and thought it may be revealing something else.  Reading between the lines.

 

At any rate, Benning may now have free reign to do what needs to be done to make the team competitive again.  He was decisive this TDL.  Not like he has been since he earned the nick name Trader Jim when he traded Kesler and Garrison

His "patience" was twofold.

 

First, in the first year they kept most of the vets on the team and brought in some new blood, in order to give them one more kick at the can.  They failed.  The following year the youth influx started, including keeping Jake and Jared on the team and bringing in Hutton, arguably before they should have been there.

 

Second, as he also said in the interview today, it was somewhat forced out of necessity by contracts.  While they basically pushed the Garrison, Higgins, and Bieksa NTCs out the door, the other NTC/NMCs were more difficult.  The team's D really did need Edler, Burrows and Hansen are quality players and people, and trading the Sedins was pretty much an unrealistic non-starter.  But now we're approaching the end-game -- Sedins have one year left, and Edler is getting close to being on the bubble of, as Benning has stated, "We will move players before they become diminishing assets".  That to me meant Hansen and Edler, just hitting their 30th.

[canuckledraggin]

This is an extraordinary year. Maybe it's just the twitter generation or people with bad memories and short attention spans, but the NHL didn't ever have this influx of young players making a difference. It's in part to do with the salary cap forcing teams to take a look at less expensive options, and players getting better. The players of the 80s and 90s have kids who are now in the NHL The science of sport plus all of the knowledge from the previous generation has bred a new generation of players who are better, stronger, faster and looking to make the million dollar payday. 

     

http://www.nhl.com/ice/rookies.htm

 

 There's no way that you can complain about Benning's rebuild. He said he was going to do it through the draft,and whether it was trading picks or trading for prospects, he has filled a cupboard that he found empty. How many years did Chicago Pittsburgh and Edmonton suffer through their rebuilds? I think the future is bright for the Canucks and it's been a work in progress that has taken a few years to reveal itself.

 

[PunjabiCanucks]

Next year, I would personally like the Sedins to drop down to the 2nd line if not 3rd. If we do resign the Sedins for 1 year or so definitely on the 3rd line come then. If we can't find a legit 1C then Horvat takes that roll on, Sutter stays as 2c, 3c the sedins at a minimal salary (2 - 3.5 mill max? ). It will take time to rebuild, but Boeser, Horvat, Baer must get top line minutes time come next year.