[Discussion] Benning shifts "focus to younger players"

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

______ - ______ - Boeser

Dahlen - Horvat - Goldobin

Baertschi - Gaudette - Virtanen

Granlund - Gaunce - Lockwood

 

I think that is a pretty deep group up front if we can find a 1LW and a center better than Horvat. I don't think our top-6 would be completely extraordinary when compared to the rest of the league, but our bottom-6 and overall depth would be pretty good. I think Dahlen, Goldobin and Baertschi will all be somewhat interchangeable in impact but I think Horvat would be great with Dahlen, and Goldobin can play RW.

 

Juolevi - Gudbranson

Hutton - Tanev

Tryamkin - Stetcher

Brisebois

 

I don't think Juolevi will be an elite #1, but he should be a great top-3 defenseman. Again, out depth is what makes our defense good. Juolevi will probably be a good #2/#3 and he can play with Gudbranson, who can handle the majority of the physical work. Hutton and Tanev will probably be top-4 guys. Tryamkin looks like he could be a solid second pairing guy and Stetcher looks like a top-4 guy. Brisebois' ceiling also could be a top-4 defenseman.

 

Demko

Markstrom

Garteig

 

Demko is looking good. Markstrom will probably be a 1B or a 2A by this time. Hopefully Garteig can be a backup.

 

I think all that's left for Benning to do is to go hard for 2-3 elite pieces. I think he's in a position now to do that now that he's accumulated this prospect/young depth.

I think you're right, but I think it's 3 years til the lines you list are in the NHL and good enough to compete with other elite teams.

 

I don't think we will see Dahlen, Gaudette, Juolevi and Demko until 2018-19 at the earliest.

 

Boeser not ready for 1st line duties until 2018-19 at the earliest.

[Noble 6]

8 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

I think you're right, but I think it's 3 years til the lines you list are in the NHL and good enough to compete with other elite teams.

 

I don't think we will see Dahlen, Gaudette, Juolevi and Demko until 2018-19 at the earliest.

 

Boeser not ready for 1st line duties until 2018-19 at the earliest.

 

Yup, it's definitely a future lineup. 

[TimberWolf]

Shifting focus means that we were not rebuilding all along

 

We're starting now (in the weakest draft of the last five years, hah)

 

Whatever, at least the silly retool is over. Better late than never but it's staggering that anyone in management couldn't see a few spare parts were not going to invigorate this team

 

There will be those that point out that we are younger but getting younger is more than a number. I don't care that we have a new Higgins and Raymond. Helpful players, sure, but not significant in defining that it was a rebuild. 

[TimberWolf]

11 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

______ - ______ - Boeser

Dahlen - Horvat - Goldobin

Baertschi - Gaudette - Virtanen

Granlund - Gaunce - Lockwood

 

I think that is a pretty deep group up front if we can find a 1LW and a center better than Horvat. I don't think our top-6 would be completely extraordinary when compared to the rest of the league, but our bottom-6 and overall depth would be pretty good. I think Dahlen, Goldobin and Baertschi will all be somewhat interchangeable in impact but I think Horvat would be great with Dahlen, and Goldobin can play RW.

 

Juolevi - Gudbranson

Hutton - Tanev

Tryamkin - Stetcher

Brisebois

 

 

 

The only thing I would change here is dropping Juolevi being number 2. Drop gud to the bottom pairing and promote Tryamkin. As for the the number one? We don't have one. Hopefully something we can remedy. 

 

[Nucker 67]

Seems like it was only yesterday that the Canucks good prospects consisted of Hodgson, Gaunce and Jensen. They've come a long way in a short amount  of time.

 

Something that cracked me up, yesterday I heard on TSN, they were saying (and this isn't word for word, but basically..) the Leafs are in the second year of their rebuild and have become a playoff team quickly. haha! Second year? They've been rebuilding since Sundin left, just not very well.

 

I'm super excited about the Canucks future. Yes, it is tough to see Burr and Hansen go, but it's the circle of life in hockey. Out with the old, in with the new. Next up: Edler.

 

 

 

[HerrDrFunk]

12 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Are you getting me?

 

I'm suggesting that for the last 3 years, ownership has been dominant in formulating strategy.  Now, there has been a shift from what the owner wants (a cup for his buddies, Hank and Dan) to what Benning wants.  Benning is now free to do what needs to be done.

 

Additionally, to my post above, culture has been passed down to players like Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Hutton and these guys will in turn teach new players like Goldobin and Dahlen what it means to be a Canuck.

 

This is my impression.  What do you think?

I actually agree with you completely about that. The only thing I disagreed with you about was your assertion in the the final sentence of your original post that we're in danger of wasting Bo's prime years while we rebuild. As Bo is still very young, I don't think that's the case.

[Pears]

I'm ecstatic about the job he's done so far. In 3 years we've gone from having almost nothing in the cupboards to them looking really nice with still a couple more moves (Edler, Sbisa, Hutton? etc) and this years draft coming up. The most notable part though is the transformation of our defence and goaltending. I think we'll surprise quite a few people in a couple years. 

[TheGuardian_]

12 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

I'm suggesting that for the last 3 years, ownership has been dominant in formulating strategy.  Now, there has been a shift from what the owner wants (a cup for his buddies, Hank and Dan) to what Benning wants.  Benning is now free to do what needs to be done.

I am going to post something horrible here, don't take it personally please.

 

Source?

 

Just thought I would do the imbecile thing here,

[Noble 6]

42 minutes ago, TimberWolf said:

 

The only thing I would change here is dropping Juolevi being number 2. Drop gud to the bottom pairing and promote Tryamkin. As for the the number one? We don't have one. Hopefully something we can remedy. 

 

 

I agree that we likely won't have a #1. The reason I had Gudbranson with Juolevi is because it's a left handed defenseman with a right handed defenseman. If Gudbranson drops down and plays with Stetcher, it's 2 left handed defenseman on the top pairing and 2 right handed defenseman on the bottom pairing. I was just trying to balance it out. 

[PhillipBlunt]

12 hours ago, luckylager said:

I thought his "patience" was directed towards the Twins and Edler. They wanted Burr and Hansen around, Eriksson signed.

 

It's very possible Jimbo said "okay guys, I'll keep them around and give you Eriksson, but you gotta produce". But they haven't and he's lost his patience. Hansen and Burr gave 100% , how can you lose your patience with that, it's just that they were our declining and most valuable/moveable assets.

 

I've lost all patience for Edler and Eriksson. Those two are extremely disappointing.

I think Benning will approach Edler in the offseason. Out of all the players, he needs to be moved next.

[TimberWolf]

15 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I agree that we likely won't have a #1. The reason I had Gudbranson with Juolevi is because it's a left handed defenseman with a right handed defenseman. If Gudbranson drops down and plays with Stetcher, it's 2 left handed defenseman on the top pairing and 2 right handed defenseman on the bottom pairing. I was just trying to balance it out. 

 

 

Fair enough, I got caught up in listing them by skill depth. 

[Iced Canucks]

With the shift towards younger players, I would rather have them do over-extended stays in Utica then with the Canucks. I hope we follow the plan of having a few plug-and-play guys for the next year or two (similar to what Toronto did) and flipping these guys at the deadline for future assets. Having the guys develop together in the AHL and then bring them up makes sense to me

[KKnight]

If were able to holy jesus get Patrick or Hischier this year and Rasmus Dahlin next year. He has franchise altering dman written all over him. 

 

Lw youth depth- Baertschi, Granlund(Lw/Rw),Virtanen,Dahlin,Hischier(lw or C), Gaunce(Lw/C), Labate

 

C- Horvat, Patrick or Hischier, Gaudette, Gaunce, Zhukenov (C or W), Mckenzie, 

 

Rw- Boeser, Goldobin, Lockwood, Jasek

 

A little more size for our top six would be nice. So if we were to nab say number 1 this year. I think Patrick would make the most sense, although i like Hischier a tad more. Aston-Reese would help us as well, but these are all hypotheticals.

 

 

Dahlin-Tanev

Juolevi-Stecher

Tryamkin-Gudbranson

 

Hutton would be the odd one out for trade at that point. Skill,size, toughness, high hockey iq. Thats a d corps that could lead this team to the promise land. 

[Crabcakes]

9 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I actually agree with you completely about that. The only thing I disagreed with you about was your assertion in the the final sentence of your original post that we're in danger of wasting Bo's prime years while we rebuild. As Bo is still very young, I don't think that's the case.

I was exaggerating a tad.  I think they should keep their core close to the same age

[Crabcakes]

9 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I am going to post something horrible here, don't take it personally please.

 

Source?

 

Just thought I would do the imbecile thing here,

There is no source.  When I said, "this is my impression", that's just what it is.  I would say my impression is a step removed from my opinion.  Perhaps equal to my intuition.   It's based on the Benning interview after the Hansen trade and I included the link.

 

I think it's a plausible explanation for Bennings change in tack and running it out there for discussion.  

 

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

We need one or two elite players in this core for them to have a chance, otherwise they just become a bunch of nothings and fringe Cup contending teams. Elite players in a core win cups. Sidney Crosby, Kopitar, Toews, Kane. Letang, Keith, Seabrook, Chara, Doughty. These are the elite guys we need.

 

Horvat is one man. He may be elite, he may just be really damn good. We desperately need an elite center and an elite defenceman if we even want to think about contending in 3-5 years time.

 

Juolevi looks pretty good but he's no Ekblad/Hedman (yet). Baertschi, Goldobin, Dahlen, Granlund, Virtanen are all great secondary and tertiary players but they're no Pat Kane or Evgeni Malkin.

 

We're going to have to make a big gutsy move or get a bit lucky to snag one or two elite players, and I still believe this core needs an elite center and an elite defenceman. Good luck getting them in a trade - most are found through the draft. 

 

I think this all starts with this upcoming 2017-2018 draft. There is potential for an elite center and very elite generational defenceman. Nolan may not be a generational center but he'll be decent, not ideal though. Hirschier is a bit the same but I think his "elite" factor is a bit higher. As for defencemen, Liljegren may be the next big defenceman and Norris winner in the future, similar to Karlsson/Hedman.

 

We already have Juolevi, Stecher, Tryamkin and Hutton, but I doubt any of these guys ever contend for a Norris trophy. Juolevi and Stecher may be our best shots but they're not as physically strong defensively, but time will tell. I still don't classify them as elite.

 

 

If I were the Canucks I'd make a hard play for a top-3 pick this draft. Whether we somehow get it (Los Vegas will probably just beat us out) or have to trade up to get it, we have to go for it. I'd seriously consider Virtanen + our 1st round pick (likely 4th to 7th overall) for the 2nd overall pick and take one of Hirschier or Liljegren. 

[Junkyard Dog]

21 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think Benning will approach Edler in the offseason. Out of all the players, he needs to be moved next.

 

Our D is a lot more inexperienced than our forwards right now. We will need somebody to help steady the ship for next year, that's what Linden said.
 

Quote

Did the Canucks — at their recent organizational meetings in Pittsburgh — ever consider trading Alexander Edler and/or Chris Tanev? “Those were great conversations,” Linden answered. “We considered all our options, looked at everything we could, put everything on the table. At the end of the day, with the youth we have on our defence, we decided we must have people who can steady the ship. We placed a high priority on that. Don’t put players into situations they are not ready for.” That’s a reason they are considering keeping Ryan Miller. They want the best possible goaltending behind them.

 

So Miller isn't just being kept to ease Markstrom but help ease our young defense. I can understand both points as you don't want to rush this young defense group.

 

I could see one of them traded at next year's deadline or the off-season after that but not this off-season. You want to keep them around a bit longer.  I understand the concept. Now that we are more focused to youth and we feel that the young defense is ready for more responsibility then we should definitely trade a veteran back there.

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

49 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Our D is a lot more inexperienced than our forwards right now. We will need somebody to help steady the ship for next year, that's what Linden said.

Edler isn't the type of defenseman that can "steady the ship", with his lack of consistency. Tanev? Yes. Edler? Nah.

49 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

So Miller isn't just being kept to ease Markstrom but help ease our young defense. I can understand both points as you don't want to rush this young defense group.

I get what Linden speaks of, but I think keeping Edler is counterintuitive in that regard. Yes, he has experience and plays big minutes, but the standard of his play isn't something that Linden should hope that the younger defensemen aspire to. Couple that with the fact that his defensive partner usually ends up bailing him out on numerous occasions (Stecher was great in that regard), and I, personally don't see a player who's capable of steadying the ship at all.

 

Tanev's rock solid positioning and high hockey IQ are far more valuable than Edler's experience.

49 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I could see one of them traded at next year's deadline or the off-season after that but not this off-season. You want to keep them around a bit longer.  I understand the concept. Now that we are more focused to youth and we feel that the young defense is ready for more responsibility then we should definitely trade a veteran back there.

Edler is getting up there in age, and his value will only continue to lessen. Frankly, Benning should have done everything in his power to trade Edler over Hamhuis. To me, that was an error.

 

Hamhuis, while slowed down by age, was a peerless mentor on the blueline. He influenced Tanev, Hutton, Sbisa, and Tryamkin in a positive way. Two thirds of the blueline benefited from Hamhuis' presence.

 

As long as the defense has a vocal presence, someone who sets an example on the right way to play, things will progress. Moving Edler even this offseason won't be as damaging as many believe.

 

Gudbranson and Tanev are adequate enough in the leadership department.

[smithers joe]

6 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Edler isn't the type of defenseman that can "steady the ship", with his lack of consistency. Tanev? Yes. Edler? Nah.

I get what Linden speaks of, but I think keeping Edler is counterintuitive in that regard. Yes, he has experience and plays big minutes, but the standard of his play isn't something that Linden should hope that the younger defensemen aspire to. Couple that with the fact that his defensive partner usually ends up bailing him out on numerous occasions (Stecher was great in that regard), and I, personally don't see a player who's capable of steadying the ship at all.

 

Tanev's rock solid positioning and high hockey IQ are far more valuable than Edler's experience.

Edler is getting up there in age, and his value will only continue to lessen. Frankly, Benning should have done everything in his power to trade Edler over Hamhuis. To me, that was an error.

 

Hamhuis, while slowed down by age, was a peerless mentor on the blueline. He influenced Tanev, Hutton, Sbisa, and Tryamkin in a positive way. Two thirds of the blueline benefited from Hamhuis' presence.

 

As long as the defense has a vocal presence, someone who sets an example on the right way to play, things will progress. Moving Edler even this offseason won't be as damaging as many believe.

 

Gudbranson and Tanev are adequate enough in the leadership department.

edler has said, over and over, that he won't wave his no trade. benning couldn't move him without his permission. leave him unprotected in the expansion draft.  maybe LV bites on his contract.

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, smithers joe said:

edler has said, over and over, that he won't wave his no trade. benning couldn't move him without his permission. leave him unprotected in the expansion draft.  maybe LV bites on his contract.

He said he'd consider it if it was clear that the team didn't want him anymore. It seems fairly clear that he needs to be moved. If Benning has traded, in my opinion, far more valuable players in Bieksa, Burrows, Hamhuis, and Hansen, who all had NTCs, he should be able to deliver the message to Edler that his woefully inconsistent style of play is no longer needed here.

 

If he was to play hardball with Benning, I'd hope that Jim would teach him a lesson and expose him to Las Vegas. If Edler was unprotected, he'd be scooped up by the Golden Shower Knights without hesitation. However, I'd rather Jim work a trade for him. I could only imagine what bounty Trader Jim could unearth in an Edler trade.