Can People Please Stand Up and Be Counted to Offset the Loud Anti WD Campaign on Here (DISCUSSION)

[CeeBee51]

Just now, Davathor said:

 

Boy I'd love to be paid millions to coach an NHL team to a lottery pick and then retire.  Anyone have Bennings # I have a business proposition for him

It will be a forced retirement if its this summer. I'd like a retirement like that as well, pretty please.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 minutes ago, CeeBee51 said:

It will be a forced retirement if its this summer. I'd like a retirement like that as well, pretty please.

And he'd still be getting paid for the following year.  Not a bad offer. 

[PhillipBlunt]

50 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I quoted facts. Are you re-writing history now?

The poster said our fans were no better or worse, that is palpably untrue whether you wish to insult me or not.

 

 

So in your opinion, the riots that occurred in 1994 and 2011 were symptomatic of "just how ignorant this fan base is about the game in general.".....

 

Are you for real?

 

The 2011 riot occurred because people, with little to no interest in the Canucks or hockey, came to downtown Vancouver with nihilism on their minds. They boarded the Expo Line with crowbars and jerry cans full of gasoline. They saw an opportunity where thousands of dejected and drunk fans would be pouring onto the streets of the city, with many already on the streets watching from the big screens. They knew that this crowd was malleable and with emotion comes illogical behavior. Add in beer, and what happened is what happened. They knew that the chances of it happening were greater considering the preceding issue.

 

As for 1994, I saw what happened with my own eyes because I was there at Robson and Thurlow when it all went down.

 

People, or as I like to call them..idiots, were climbing light standards and one genius decided to walk across the electrical wires spanning the intersection. He fell through an opening and landed 20 feet down on his head. The paramedics were quick to gauge the situation, which was life-threatening, and loaded the person in accordingly and in due time.

 

The ambulance was trying to leave the scene when a group of true losers started slamming their fists down on the hood of the vehicle, preventing the ambulance from leaving. Rightfully so, the police got involved and began strong arming these turds out of the ambulance's way to allow them exit. This started a chain reaction that was partially self-righteous indignation from the surrounding thousands thinking that it was police brutality, and the ineptness of the police themselves in trying to maintain crowd control. The person died, by the way.

 

Before long, the crowd, which severely outnumbered the police, started encroaching and yelling at the officers, who's primary objective was to help an ambulance leave the scene, and the police, feeling threatened and having no experience with huge crowds, started pushing back, many of them using tear gas to clear a path. This started a chain reaction of thousands of people fleeing down Robson, with each window on each storefront coming down. I saw officers stopping people with clothes and jewelry in the hands, confiscating the goods, and letting the people go. As well, there were officers who had never used tear gas before who mishandled the canisters and dropped them at the feet of innocent families trying to find refuge in the doorways of businesses.

 

Things became even more tense as the majority of the crowd made it to Burrard which was much more wide open. The crowd then pooled there and began pushing back. Remember this is two years after the unrest in California.

 

There were no arguments regarding Lafayette, Linden, or Messier that spurred destruction and chaos. It was the hive mind, and violence, selfishness, ineptitude and the repressed culture of a city that didn't know how to manage it's population.

[Wise Owl]

Numbers aside, I thought Ho Sang played terrible and I would be surprised if he has more than a brief NHL career. He got knocked off the puck easily and looked panicked when he had it. Maybe just a bad game. Willie is a good fit for this team. He likes the kids. He teaches them. Gulitzen says he has an amazing raportt with his players and Hansen says he is very "chatty" and spends lots of time sitting down with them and  going over video. He shelters them from media/fan pressure by playing them less and putting them in easier situations. He has a degree in psychology/ teaching I believe. I find it funny that people would suggest Crawford as a coach. He and AV were terrible with young players. Willie will only be gone this summer if there is an experience NHL coach that is a teacher type. We are not yet ready in our evolution for a full on hard nosed experienced NHL coach.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Li'l Fra said:

Before there was Megna; there was Dorsett.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy Dorsett as a player. He brings it every night and is a gamer. I was just very frustrated with WD's penchant for continually pushing him up the lineup into spots better suited for players with offensive ability.

I think we've been watching different games. Without Dorsett, players like Hansen had to fight POS like Kadri etc. sustaining injuries. For years one of the issues amongst the CDC has been the lack of push back, so I find it a little off target to complain about WD plying the only player we have, who can drop them. He may be on the lightweight side, but at least he can play hockey, which most of the bruisers struggle to do. And except for a few attempts, I can't remember too many times he played higher than 3rd one duties, although I may stand corrected. 

 

[alfstonker]

21 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So in your opinion, the riots that occurred in 1994 and 2011 were symptomatic of "just how ignorant this fan base is about the game in general.".....

 

Are you for real?

 

The 2011 riot occurred because people, with little to no interest in the Canucks or hockey, came to downtown Vancouver with nihilism on their minds. They boarded the Expo Line with crowbars and jerry cans full of gasoline. They saw an opportunity where thousands of dejected and drunk fans would be pouring onto the streets of the city, with many already on the streets watching from the big screens. They knew that this crowd was malleable and with emotion comes illogical behavior. Add in beer, and what happened is what happened. They knew that the chances of it happening were greater considering the preceding issue.

Even if that were true and it wasn't. Don't be naive. Are you saying none of them come on these boards now or are influenced by the media. You need to get real. Do you think other hockey fan bases are all rioting if they get a sniff of the SC?

 

 

 

Quote

 

As for 1994, I saw what happened with my own eyes because I was there at Robson and Thurlow when it all went down.

 

People, or as I like to call them..idiots, were climbing light standards and one genius decided to walk across the electrical wires spanning the intersection. He fell through an opening and landed 20 feet down on his head. The paramedics were quick to gauge the situation, which was life-threatening, and loaded the person in accordingly and in due time.

 

The ambulance was trying to leave the scene when a group of true losers started slamming their fists down on the hood of the vehicle, preventing the ambulance from leaving. Rightfully so, the police got involved and began strong arming these turds out of the ambulance's way to allow them exit. This started a chain reaction that was partially self-righteous indignation from the surrounding thousands thinking that it was police brutality, and the ineptness of the police themselves in trying to maintain crowd control. The person died, by the way.

 

Before long, the crowd, which severely outnumbered the police, started encroaching and yelling at the officers, who's primary objective was to help an ambulance leave the scene, and the police, feeling threatened and having no experience with huge crowds, started pushing back, many of them using tear gas to clear a path. This started a chain reaction of thousands of people fleeing down Robson, with each window on each storefront coming down. I saw officers stopping people with clothes and jewelry in the hands, confiscating the goods, and letting the people go. As well, there were officers who had never used tear gas before who mishandled the canisters and dropped them at the feet of innocent families trying to find refuge in the doorways of businesses.

 

Things became even more tense as the majority of the crowd made it to Burrard which was much more wide open. The crowd then pooled there and began pushing back. Remember this is two years after the unrest in California.

 

There were no arguments regarding Lafayette, Linden, or Messier that spurred destruction and chaos. It was the hive mind, and violence, selfishness, ineptitude and the repressed culture of a city that didn't know how to manage it's population.

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Alf finds it very ironic that only after a couple days from this thread starting JB has a closed door meeting with Willie D to get Willie playing the youth more.  It sure sounds like JB IS NOT behind this coach.  I really don't see Willie completing this season now.

I'm willing to give Willie one more chance (I like to pretend my opinion matters to Jim and Trev). If Willie continues to do these things even after being given new orders then he should be given a 'change up':

 

- Goldobin is healthy and he still plays Megna over him

- Boucher gets demoted in a game and Megna is bumped up to the top 6

- Miller gets more starts than Marky (if he's back soon)

- Willie doesn't experiment with the PP

[alfstonker]

51 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

At the time of the firing of the coaches those teams weren't contending infact they were all bottom feeders just like the canucks are today. Perhaps if we had a coach that knew what he was doing some day we'd be able to develop into a contending team again.  Contending has nothing to do with showing the difference a new message can make on a roster.  CGY, NYI, MIN, BOS are all benefits of a new coach bringing in a new message this year.

 

But since you know you've lost, you'll try to hang the argument on something that had no relevance in the meaning I stated.  A typical Alf move. . 

You really think that their rosters compare to ours? I see you have beamed yourself up again.

51 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

 

 

Hamoinic has been out half the year, Ho Sang has played in less games than Jake and who cares that markstrom is a back up, he's still on the roster.  You're the on that insinuated that draft position defines a roster.  Why does is not come into effect when I list off all the players canucks have drafted in the first round.  Oh yeah i forgot, you ignore any facts that don't support you pathetic logic. 

You know fine that Miller is a hell of a goalie so why would Markstrom even matter other than a weak effort to boost your lagging total. The Sedins are done is Tavares and Bailley? Yes the draft position matters if the players form reflects it. You were comparing one coach with the other and saying they both competed every night and I pointed out that they had more talent. If you are denying that then you haven't a clue.

 

51 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

 

 

What part of this do you not understand, it's not even about being better.  The only argument people have for WD this year is that he's able to get good effort out of his team, to which you think is some major accomplishment, it's not.  It's not even really a coaching 100% effect, as these players are all professionals and have other driving motive to give it their all than care about the coach. 

No it's not, he has also developed over half the team while getting that effort. Did you not read what Baertschi said of Desjardins?

To bring in that they are all professionals is you scraping the bottom of the bucket. If that was the only criteria dictating how a player played all the teams would be equal.

 

 

51 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

11 games left and counting. 

Dream on.

[PhillipBlunt]

17 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Even if that were true and it wasn't. Don't be naive.

You have zero clue, don't you? I've spoken to RCMP and Vancouver Police about the 2011 riots and that was a huge factor. But you somehow know better, in your little vacuum?

Quote

Are you saying none of them come on these boards now or are influenced by the media. You need to get real.

What influence from the media contributed to the riots in particular? How many straws can a desperate poster grasp for at once? As far as getting real, you should heed your own advice tenfold.

Quote

Do you think other hockey fan bases are all rioting if they get a sniff of the SC?

No. Because i-t w-a-s-n'-t a-b-o-u-t h-o-c-k-e-y. Say it with me. Slowly.

 

It says more about the Lower Mainland and the city of Vancouver (Surrey really), than about the Canucks or their fans. Is Rogers Arena a pit of violence most game nights? No. Montreal has had quite a few riots, some took place around Canadiens games, some around a Guns N' Roses concert. Was Slash commiserating with the Bleu, Blanc, and Rouge?

 

At least admit that you don't have a clue, or give me your PO box and I'll mail you one.

[Ronaldoescobar]

10 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Even if that were true and it wasn't. Don't be naive. Are you saying none of them come on these boards now or are influenced by the media. You need to get real. Do you think other hockey fan bases are all rioting if they get a sniff of the SC?

 

 

 

 

Absolutely incorrect.... It was actually reported that there were a number of people from outside the lower mainland that arrived in Vancouver solely to take advantage of the situation to cause chaos pretty much exactly as PB said. 

I dont know what is with the generalizations??  I dont think Phill said that no one is influenced by the media as opposed to yourself stating that the Canuck fan base (which reads as all of us, you included) riot when we get a sniff at the SC. Oh and some (read some, and not a gross generalization as so many others use) Montreal fans who rioted over their star getting suspended (Richard - yes I know it was long ago but still), say hi. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You have zero clue, don't you? I've spoken to RCMP and Vancouver Police about the 2011 riots and that was a huge factor. But you somehow know better, in your little vacuum?

What influence from the media contributed to the riots in particular? How many straws can a desperate poster grasp for at once? As far as getting real, you should heed your own advice tenfold.

No. Because i-t w-a-s-n'-t a-b-o-u-t h-o-c-k-e-y. Say it with me. Slowly.

 

It says more about the Lower Mainland and the city of Vancouver (Surrey really), than about the Canucks of their fans. Is Rogers Arena a pit of violence most game nights? No. Montreal has had quite a few riots, some took place around Canadiens games, some around a Guns N' Roses concert. Was Slash commiserating with the Bleu, Blanc, and Rouge?

 

At least admit that you don't have a clue, or give me your PO box and I'll mail you one.

 

But seriously, is Willie going to start a riot? Is that what the message is here?

 

 

[alfstonker]

4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You have zero clue, don't you? I've spoken to RCMP and Vancouver Police about the 2011 riots and that was a huge factor. But you somehow know better, in your little vacuum?

What influence from the media contributed to the riots in particular? How many straws can a desperate poster grasp for at once? As far as getting real, you should heed your own advice tenfold.

No. Because i-t w-a-s-n'-t a-b-o-u-t h-o-c-k-e-y. Say it with me. Slowly.

And you know this because you interviewed very damned one of them. Really? OK.

Quote

 

It says more about the Lower Mainland and the city of Vancouver (Surrey really), than about the Canucks of their fans. Is Rogers Arena a pit of violence most game nights? No. Montreal has had quite a few riots, some took place around Canadiens games, some around a Guns N' Roses concert. Was Slash commiserating with the Bleu, Blanc, and Rouge?

 

At least admit that you don't have a clue, or give me your PO box and I'll mail you one.

You still seem to be saying that no other hockey city is like Vancouver. Really? OK

 

It happened twice HERE.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

But seriously, is Willie going to start a riot? Is that what the message is here?

 

 

No....but elfstroker would gladly start one in Willie's defense and then somehow magically blame it on:

• the media
• Canucks fans that don't agree with them/him/her
• the wind
• Squire Barnes
• Henrik
• (literally anything)

[JM_]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

No....but elfstroker would gladly start one in Willie's defense and then somehow magically blame it on:

• the media
• Canucks fans that don't agree with them/him/her
• the wind
• Squire Barnes
• Henrik
• (literally anything)

I dunno.... to me having a fan base as passionate as ours and Montreal's that once a decade or so go a bit nuts is far preferable to much of the US market. Vancouver has some rough edges, love it or leave it, I say.

 

But it was well established that we had idiots from all over Canada and the US show up to stir up trouble. Even that stupid photo that Aussie doofus took of the couple kissing on the street was staged, he admitted it was a fake but no one cared. But reality is a hard nut for some, its easier to push some personal narrative or lazy media soundbite.

[alfstonker]

2 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Absolutely incorrect.... It was actually reported that there were a number of people from outside the lower mainland that arrived in Vancouver solely to take advantage of the situation to cause chaos pretty much exactly as PB said. 

And of course lower mainland people don't support the Canucks. Hell you can say that about every City that has ever hosted a SC decider.

2 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

I dont know what is with the generalizations??  I dont think Phill said that no one is influenced by the media as opposed to yourself stating that the Canuck fan base (which reads as all of us, you included) riot when we get a sniff at the SC. Oh and some (read some, and not a gross generalization as so many others use) Montreal fans who rioted over their star getting suspended (Richard - yes I know it was long ago but still), say hi. 

 

[spook007]

14 hours ago, CeeBee51 said:

Maybe it takes a lot longer to earn Willies trust then Weights. Or maybe it's the interim Head coach title or maybe it's the alignment of the planets. Some days I'm just not sure but I am pretty sure of one thing. If Jim tells Willie to play the kids more and he doesn't Willie will be filing his retirement papers.

This is so true.

This is 500 pages put into 1 sentence.... Thank you.

 

As I see it, all the arguments about WD's deployment of his players, can be 1 of 5 things. 

 

1. Being a poor coach

2. Having been told to compete for a playoff spot, while bringing in youth

3. Having been told to compete for a play off spot, while giving youth a  certain amount of playing time

4. Let the youth play.

5. Do what you think is right...

 

Which one it is, I don't know for sure, but here's the thing, neither does anybody else here on these pages... 30 NHL teams does it differently (and those are people paid to do so), so the opinions of certain CDC members are no more valid that of the rest...

 

I personally think WD has done well with the youngsters coming into the team, and most of them has progress nicely.

 

However, the one thing I know for sure is, JB is the GM, and if the coach does not play the team the way management want him to, or develop players to their satisfaction, he'll be on his bike as soon as the season is over...

[DIBdaQUIB]

8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

No....but elfstroker would gladly start one in Willie's defense and then somehow magically blame it on:

• the media
• Canucks fans that don't agree with them/him/her
• the wind
• Squire Barnes
• Henrik
• (literally anything)

You're wasting your time on Alfstonker who is evidently a living example of  George Ruggles' famous lawyer.

[Jack Fig]

45 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Even if that were true and it wasn't. Don't be naive. Are you saying none of them come on these boards now or are influenced by the media. You need to get real. Do you think other hockey fan bases are all rioting if they get a sniff of the SC?

 

 

 

 

What Blunt says is 100% true. I passed by a Skytrain station 90 minutes before the start of game 7 and I saw an over-run station filled with people with tools and gas-cans. It was not about hockey or the Canucks losing.

[Jack Fig]

32 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Absolutely incorrect.... It was actually reported that there were a number of people from outside the lower mainland that arrived in Vancouver solely to take advantage of the situation to cause chaos pretty much exactly as PB said. 

 

Correct. I clearly remember the first identifiable arrestees as being from Washington State and Oregon.

[terrible.dee]

I think he is being unfairly targeted and that proof exists that he is a good coach.

 

People forget that coaches aren't free to do whatever they want, they are given a mandate and it is thier job to carry it out.

 

Remember AV in Nonnis' last year as GM? Trap city, when asked why: "I worked with what I had, I was told to win" once he had some decent talent things opened up.

 

WD is definitely liked by the players, at times this year when it seemed WD was on the block the team went on improbable win streaks, when a team hates the coach they make sure he gets fired (Torts) they fall apart into a disorganized mess, you can smell it.

 

None of those signs are there with WD, the players behave as if they DON'T want him fired.

 

As per some of the ice time complaints: How smug people were when "Horvat played his way off the 4th line and forced WD to give him top 6 ice time" BS Horvat owes WD big time for the careful measured way he acclimated him to the NHL slowly moving him up up and to the point where his play was never a media topic, his ICE TIME was, get it? This is how a good coach gets a player comfortable in the NHL and acts as a lightning rod for negative attention, the topic was always: Horvat would do more if WD would let him, it was never "Horvat isn't doing enough" had he been deployed over his head like so many on here wanted that's exactly what would have happened. 

 

WD buffers the young talent, lets them soak in the positive feelings and absorbs the bad ones (Goldoblin scores a goal then doesn't play much after, perfect example, days later that is still what he and the media remember) He was TRYING to do the same thing with Virtanen when Jake misjudged his intentions and pissed management off one time too many, the truth is, WD really knows how to develop young talent not in some mythical Travis Green way, but in ways you can actually see, it's too bad Jake didn't go with the flow, at that point I didn't get it either and thought what Jake did was right, months later I see how wrong I was.

 

The first year when winning was possible we played entertaining hockey and went to the playoffs, then as the core eroded and the playoffs no longer possible, WD was put in a bad spot. Delusional demands by ownership changed the mandate, he was now being asked to do what was impossible, and looking back you can see it, there is a very definite point in time where you can see WD behaving like someone who has thrown his hands in the air and said "WTF" then decided to just make the best of it, he started to look weary like someone who was disillusioned by the situation he found himself in, the light went out at a certain point when he realized he was in a "no-win" and would be the first sacrificial lamb when the owner was forced to change course,

 

WD has proven to be popular and respected by his players so mark my words, he will probably get the boot here in Van, but he will have an assistant coaching job right away, then as his rep continues to grow another successful head coaching stint will occur, WD is a good coach and has never been the problem here, in fact his development of young players has forged our next star,

 

But I guess that means he sucks....cause this is Vanloser, and that's how we roll