Canadian Armed Forces Thread

[BPA]

Short Term - buy qty 50 of the F-35. 

Long Term - Canadian start up Avro program.

 

Canada really needs to get back into the business of producing airplanes and ships.

 

Slowly they are trying to rejuvenate the ship building industry. 

[Ronaldoescobar]

Canada should just follow their old ways and buy some used British Sopwith Camels and then we can humor our adversaries into submission. 

[Ryan Strome]

28 minutes ago, aeromotacanucks said:

I know but the question is

 

Everybody knows the F35 is extremely expensive to the point Italy is reducing the orders and even Israel is considering some local improvements and even a life extension of their F15 and F16

 

The F35 is advanced but it's simply way too expensive not only to buy but to keep it even considering the basic version...

 

Maybe an upgraded version of the F15 would do just fine since it's a proven design

Canada has allocated 19 billion dollars so it will likely be the f35. Personally I think a twin engine fighter is essential for Canada, maybe the Euro fighter? But it's even more money than the f35.

[aeromotacanucks]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

Short Term - buy qty 50 of the F-35. 

Long Term - Canadian start up Avro program.

 

Canada really needs to get back into the business of producing airplanes and ships.

 

Slowly they are trying to rejuvenate the ship building industry. 

People always talk about the Avro program and seemed to be a great fighter 

 

Wondering WHY it was scrapped 

[Gurn]

9 minutes ago, aeromotacanucks said:

People always talk about the Avro program and seemed to be a great fighter 

 

Wondering WHY it was scrapped 

In a movie/documentary called "The Arrow" it is alleged that the Americans were concerned the Arrow would be quick enough and have a high enough altitude to spot and report on the American's spy plane. 

Also the project was quite expensive, unfortunately most of the expensive stuff was done when the decision came down to scrap the project,

Possibly the worst blunder by a Canadian government in the history of Canada.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, gurn said:

In a movie/documentary called "The Arrow" it is alleged that the Americans were concerned the Arrow would be quick enough and have a high enough altitude to spot and report on the American's spy plane. 

Also the project was quite expensive, unfortunately most of the expensive stuff was done when the decision came down to scrap the project,

Possibly the worst blunder by a Canadian government in the history of Canada.

You forget the most important aspect of it.  The US radar and defense shield as well as US dominance in aerospace engineering.  With the Avro set to be a world leading interceptor capable of catching bombers and missiles at high altitude the US shield would have effectively been useless without canada's real estate.  HUGE gaps would exist for Russia to simply mow through.

 

The US was also ramping up for the tech race at the real start of the cold war.  Having poached german and central european scientists the Arrow represented a technology the US didn't have.  As Canada was a NATO ally but NOT a US one, there were concessions offered and given Deifenbakker via the US government to scrap the program.  

 

The irony of the endless talk of Conservatives being more friendly towards or better for out military is laughable when you look at the actual records.  Neither side of the fence has been great but only one has effectively scrapped 2 very essential aspects of canadian military abilities

 

We gave up our ship building and our aerospace engineering and aeronautics in the late 50s and early 60s to essentially allow the US to be our protector.  We now buy our weapons from them for the most part.  It's laughably sad.

 

The possibility of redrafting and revamping the Arrow project with modern technology is very real, it also would add massive benefits of R&D and high paying jobs to Canadas GDP.  But current agreements with the US and NORAD/NATO would effectively make it very very hard to accomplish.  Added that the world is moving away from pilot operated warbirds and it's hard to say this would ever get back off the ground

[xyster]

On 1/4/2019 at 12:58 AM, Ryan Strome said:

@BPA

Don't even get going on the subs. So much money has been spent on them they could have bought probably a dozen new Swedish stealth submarines. 

But ours are cool and retro!

Actually, in all fairness, ours have had some pretty significant upgrades.

There wasn't a lot I was allowed to take pictures of, but this was one of them.

[Ryan Strome]

11 minutes ago, xyster said:

But ours are cool and retro!

Actually, in all fairness, ours have had some pretty significant upgrades.

There wasn't a lot I was allowed to take pictures of, but this was one of them.

I'm not saying they haven't had significant upgrades but it's still a 30 year old sub. What we invested in these we could have had new ones was my point. Cool picture buddy.

[xyster]

9 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I'm not saying they haven't had significant upgrades but it's still a 30 year old sub. What we invested in these we could have had new ones was my point. Cool picture buddy.

Well, hindsight is definitely 20/20.

 

I had to go on it as part of my job, and part of the "tour" was talking about how they have to react in various kinds of emergencies. It was terrifying to think about, especially considering we already had casualties on their maiden voyage here.

Of all the places/postings possible in the forces, I think being a submariner would be the most terrifying.

[Ryan Strome]

17 minutes ago, xyster said:

Well, hindsight is definitely 20/20.

 

I had to go on it as part of my job, and part of the "tour" was talking about how they have to react in various kinds of emergencies. It was terrifying to think about, especially considering we already had casualties on their maiden voyage here.

Of all the places/postings possible in the forces, I think being a submariner would be the most terrifying.

Absolutely agree. There is no funeral or burial if at war. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but lets not kid ourselves both governments cheap out on our forces. Do the right thing and adequately fund our military the way it should be.

 

Canada is a rich nation there is no excuse for governments to do this. They know they can get away with it though, many Canadians/voters say they care but unfortunately imo they only care one day out of the year, which is sad and pathetic.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Ryan Strome

[Ryan Strome]

Eurofighter Typhoon to bid to replace Canadian CF-18 fleet

Eurofighter, a joint venture among Airbus, BAE Systems and Leonardo, was assumed to be one of the bidders in the competition to replace the RCAF’s fighter fleet with 88 advanced jets, but it hadn’t yet publicly acknowledged its desire to play for the contract. Simon Jacques, head of Airbus defense and space in Canada, said at a company event in Montreal that his firm intends to submit a proposal for the Typhoon.

“We are very engaged,” he says. “We want to propose the Typhoon, the most advanced new generation multi, swing-role fighter on the market today."

 

In October, RCAF issued a draft request for proposal to replace its aging CF-18A/B fleet. Ottawa listed five suppliers eligible to compete: Dassault Aviation, maker of the Rafale; Saab, maker of the JAS 39 Gripen; Airbus Defense – on behalf of the Eurofighter joint venture, maker of the Typhoon; Lockheed Martin, maker of the F-16 and F-35; and Boeing, maker of the F/A-18 Super Hornet and F-15E Strike Eagle. Only those five will be allowed to submit proposals.

The RCAF plans to receive initial proposals from bidders between summer and winter 2019. A contract is anticipated to be awarded during the winter months of 2021-2022.

Canada wants initial aircraft to be delivered in 2025, with initial operational capability achieved by 2026. The government wants all aircraft delivered by 2031 or 2032, at which time the CF-18 fleet will be retired.

Jacques says the Eurofighter bid will include some sort of participation from Canadian manufacturers, though the type of involvement in the aircraft’s supply chain or extent was not specified.

"With our Canadian partners, it is going to be a Canadian solution and a good value for Canada," he says. "The RFP is coming out in mid of this year, right before the election."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/eurofighter-typhoon-to-bid-to-replace-canadian-cf-18-455004/

[aeromotacanucks]

8 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Eurofighter Typhoon to bid to replace Canadian CF-18 fleet

Eurofighter, a joint venture among Airbus, BAE Systems and Leonardo, was assumed to be one of the bidders in the competition to replace the RCAF’s fighter fleet with 88 advanced jets, but it hadn’t yet publicly acknowledged its desire to play for the contract. Simon Jacques, head of Airbus defense and space in Canada, said at a company event in Montreal that his firm intends to submit a proposal for the Typhoon.

“We are very engaged,” he says. “We want to propose the Typhoon, the most advanced new generation multi, swing-role fighter on the market today."

 

In October, RCAF issued a draft request for proposal to replace its aging CF-18A/B fleet. Ottawa listed five suppliers eligible to compete: Dassault Aviation, maker of the Rafale; Saab, maker of the JAS 39 Gripen; Airbus Defense – on behalf of the Eurofighter joint venture, maker of the Typhoon; Lockheed Martin, maker of the F-16 and F-35; and Boeing, maker of the F/A-18 Super Hornet and F-15E Strike Eagle. Only those five will be allowed to submit proposals.

The RCAF plans to receive initial proposals from bidders between summer and winter 2019. A contract is anticipated to be awarded during the winter months of 2021-2022.

Canada wants initial aircraft to be delivered in 2025, with initial operational capability achieved by 2026. The government wants all aircraft delivered by 2031 or 2032, at which time the CF-18 fleet will be retired.

Jacques says the Eurofighter bid will include some sort of participation from Canadian manufacturers, though the type of involvement in the aircraft’s supply chain or extent was not specified.

"With our Canadian partners, it is going to be a Canadian solution and a good value for Canada," he says. "The RFP is coming out in mid of this year, right before the election."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/eurofighter-typhoon-to-bid-to-replace-canadian-cf-18-455004/

With the join venture between Bombardier and Airbus this is totally possible even making the Eurofighter in Canada and renaming it as "Canadafighter" 

[Ryan Strome]

2 hours ago, aeromotacanucks said:

With the join venture between Bombardier and Airbus this is totally possible even making the Eurofighter in Canada and renaming it as "Canadafighter" 

It is possible and it's a great jet, possibly the best dog fighter in the world and twin engine. But it is an expensive jet. 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

It is possible and it's a great jet, possibly the best dog fighter in the world and twin engine. But it is an expensive jet. 

Thats not a Liberal problem, remember?

 

I do hope this is the start of a potentially, in part at least, made in Canada jet. 

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Thats not a Liberal problem, remember?

 

I do hope this is the start of a potentially, in part at least, made in Canada jet. 

I laughed at the first part but I agree with the second part, and they did allocate about 19 billion dollars. The tranche 3 is pretty advanced.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Ryan Strome

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I laughed at the first part but I agree with the second part, and they did allocate about 19 billion dollars. The tranche 3 is pretty advanced.

the extra expense is offset a lot by the jobs, so you do have to look at the whole picture. Plus &^@# Boeing.

 

 

[Warhippy]

13 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Eurofighter Typhoon to bid to replace Canadian CF-18 fleet

Eurofighter, a joint venture among Airbus, BAE Systems and Leonardo, was assumed to be one of the bidders in the competition to replace the RCAF’s fighter fleet with 88 advanced jets, but it hadn’t yet publicly acknowledged its desire to play for the contract. Simon Jacques, head of Airbus defense and space in Canada, said at a company event in Montreal that his firm intends to submit a proposal for the Typhoon.

“We are very engaged,” he says. “We want to propose the Typhoon, the most advanced new generation multi, swing-role fighter on the market today."

 

In October, RCAF issued a draft request for proposal to replace its aging CF-18A/B fleet. Ottawa listed five suppliers eligible to compete: Dassault Aviation, maker of the Rafale; Saab, maker of the JAS 39 Gripen; Airbus Defense – on behalf of the Eurofighter joint venture, maker of the Typhoon; Lockheed Martin, maker of the F-16 and F-35; and Boeing, maker of the F/A-18 Super Hornet and F-15E Strike Eagle. Only those five will be allowed to submit proposals.

The RCAF plans to receive initial proposals from bidders between summer and winter 2019. A contract is anticipated to be awarded during the winter months of 2021-2022.

Canada wants initial aircraft to be delivered in 2025, with initial operational capability achieved by 2026. The government wants all aircraft delivered by 2031 or 2032, at which time the CF-18 fleet will be retired.

Jacques says the Eurofighter bid will include some sort of participation from Canadian manufacturers, though the type of involvement in the aircraft’s supply chain or extent was not specified.

"With our Canadian partners, it is going to be a Canadian solution and a good value for Canada," he says. "The RFP is coming out in mid of this year, right before the election."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/eurofighter-typhoon-to-bid-to-replace-canadian-cf-18-455004/

 

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

It is possible and it's a great jet, possibly the best dog fighter in the world and twin engine. But it is an expensive jet. 

Remember our back and forth about the sale of Bombardier to Airbus and how I suggested that it could mean the Typhoon/Eurofighter being made in canada

 

Just saying man it made sense then it makes even more sense now.

 

As well to my knowledge The Rafale and Typhoon are the only two jets where the parent company has offered or suggested jobs in canada via R&D, Manufacturing or the like.

 

Seems like a no brainer really and would SERIOUSLY be a slap to the face of Boeing and the US administration as the added costs due to Tariffs would not be present

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

the extra expense is offset a lot by the jobs, so you do have to look at the whole picture. Plus &^@# Boeing.

 

 

I have a feeling whoever wins the election will stay away from Boeing on the fear of making Quebec mad. Lockheed Martin can't promise any contracts, so at this point it's likely between the Gripen and the Eurofighter.

[Ryan Strome]

19 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

Remember our back and forth about the sale of Bombardier to Airbus and how I suggested that it could mean the Typhoon/Eurofighter being made in canada

 

Just saying man it made sense then it makes even more sense now.

 

As well to my knowledge The Rafale and Typhoon are the only two jets where the parent company has offered or suggested jobs in canada via R&D, Manufacturing or the like.

 

Seems like a no brainer really and would SERIOUSLY be a slap to the face of Boeing and the US administration as the added costs due to Tariffs would not be present

It wasn't a back and fourth as I didn't disagree with you. In fact I'm pretty sure I liked your idea. 

 

Rafale has withdrew as they feel it's to difficult to incorporate their jet to Canadian needs and wants. 

[Gurn]

New Masts for the Victoria class subs:

http://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/game-changing-mast-installation-underway-submarines/

"HMCS Corner Brook will become the first of the Royal Canadian Navy’s (RCN) four Victoria-class submarines to be equipped with a new modern mast system.

The hunter-killer submarine is currently stationed in the purpose-built repair facility dock at Victoria Shipyards as workers from Babcock Canada install the L3 Calzoni Universal Modular Mast (UMM). The system, similar to the one fitted in U.S. Navy Virginia-class submarines was acquired under the U.S. Foreign Military Sales program.

Masts are vital to the functioning of any submarine. In Canada’s diesel-powered subs they provide air supply, communications, radar, and periscope capability.

Lieutenant-Commander Darryl Gervis, RCN Deputy Director Submarine Combat Systems, says the new technology puts Canada’s submarine program on a new course.

“This is a game changer,” said LCdr Gervis, referring to the current technological shortfall for Canadian subs, which is the lack of a reliable high-speed satellite data link.

“What the Universal Modular Mast [when coupled with the Protected Military Satellite Communication PMSC antenna] will do is provide near real-time high-speed [antenna] communications with the shore. This will allow for improved picture and video transmission, and quicker transmission of messages, and therefore reduce counter-detection opportunities as the submarine will spend less time with its mast out of the water.”