RetroCanuck Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 To Van Girardi+20171st+Adam Tambellini To New York Tanev+4th Why NYR do this? They get a solid defensive player and dump a bad contract. Help them to truly compete next year. Why for us? Get a first and can draft a player like Yamamoto or Hague as well as a decent-good prospect. Maybe girardis play gets better here as well? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMillerTime Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 No thats awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 When did we get Stall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, Hortankin said: When did we get Stall? Origianlly had stall in the trade instead of girardi but swapped it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said: No thats awful how so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Tanev and a 4th for a late 1st, a okay prospect and a cap dump? No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Tanev and a 4th for a late 1st, a okay prospect and a cap dump? No thanks. I think people may be overvaluing Tanev right now. He's a great shutdown D but has had injury trouble and he never produces offence. He's worth a mid to late first. Also the prospect I named is quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzbottom Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said: I think people may be overvaluing Tanev right now. He's a great shutdown D but has had injury trouble and he never produces offence. He's worth a mid to late first. Also the prospect I named is quite good. And I know I will get lambasted for this, he has very low name recognition outside of Vancouver. I'm sure most Rangers fans have no idea who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, zzbottom said: And I know I will get lambasted for this, he has very low name recognition outside of Vancouver. I'm sure most Rangers fans have no idea who he is. So the fans run the team then? Name recognition is largely irrelevant, especially when it comes to defensemen. We're in no hurry to move him. If we can't do better than this, then no reason to pull the trigger. A B prospect and a late 1st won't get us anything better than we already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzbottom Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: So the fans run the team then? Name recognition is largely irrelevant, especially when it comes to defensemen. We're in no hurry to move him. If we can't do better than this, then no reason to pull the trigger. A B prospect and a late 1st won't get us anything better than we already have. Well, from what I've learned from my time on this forum, fans definitely determine every single player's approximate trade value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckylager Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I think we can do better for Tanev IF there's an actual need to move him, I'd prefer to keep the guy and move him at a TDL when we can really get max value. IMO, we need Tanev far more than the return you've proposed. Stop trying to trade Tanev, trade Edler dammit. EDLER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMillerTime Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 hours ago, RetroCanuck said: how so? Well the 1st is later in the draft and with a weak draft idk what JB could find whats good. Tambellinni could be a bust easily. Giradi is a cap dump. Why would we do this trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logic Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 god awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 11 hours ago, ItsMillerTime said: No thats awful In comparison to other overly lopsided proposals, yes of course! In comparison to the true value of Tanev, pretty much right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 hours ago, timberz21 said: In comparison to the true value of Tanev, pretty much right on the money. Which of course you're 100% correct on, and everybody else is dead wrong, right? The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle imo. However you want to spin it, Tanev's value is whatever somebody is willing to pay to land him. And if we don't feel that's enough, that's cool. Nothing wrong with holding on to one of the top defensive specialists in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 If we're looking at a bottom 1/3 pick out of the 1st round we're better off waiting to trade Tanev at the TDL next season, and get a similar number pick in a better draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Which of course you're 100% correct on, and everybody else is dead wrong, right? The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle imo. However you want to spin it, Tanev's value is whatever somebody is willing to pay to land him. And if we don't feel that's enough, that's cool. Nothing wrong with holding on to one of the top defensive specialists in the game. Any player's value is whatever somebody is willing to pay to land him...pretty much the definition of Fair Market Value...doesn't mean you'll get the same return for each of them. It's not impossible that a GM has a brain fart and overpays badly for a player (i.e Forsberg/Erat), but highly improbable, you probably won't see as bad a trade as this one for another 10 years. But realistically, if you look at Tanev's value, you can't expect to land a lopsided deal like this, which most proposal in here pretty much suggest. CDC was expecting 10th, 24th, Bonino + Vatanen/Fowler/Lindholm/Theodore for Kesler. Again the realistic return was a late 1st, middle 6 center and bottom pairing defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 hour ago, timberz21 said: Any player's value is whatever somebody is willing to pay to land him...pretty much the definition of Fair Market Value...doesn't mean you'll get the same return for each of them. It's not impossible that a GM has a brain fart and overpays badly for a player (i.e Forsberg/Erat), but highly improbable, you probably won't see as bad a trade as this one for another 10 years. But realistically, if you look at Tanev's value, you can't expect to land a lopsided deal like this, which most proposal in here pretty much suggest. CDC was expecting 10th, 24th, Bonino + Vatanen/Fowler/Lindholm/Theodore for Kesler. Again the realistic return was a late 1st, middle 6 center and bottom pairing defenseman. Felt compelled to post in response to this... you say CDC expected this? You're on CDC, is this what you expected? Because I think most of the people I saw commenting didn't expect this return at all, in fact I think a lot expected less than what was actually returned because of how much Kesler handcuffed the team by only have 1 viable team he was willing to be traded to. Most people knew that Kes had put the team in a significant trade disadvantage (hence why so many dislike him now) and I think the general CDC consensus is that JB pretty much exceeded the return value in that specific situation. Was Kes valued at more on a complete open market? Definitely. If there was a bidding war between 4 or 5 teams perhaps that return would not have been a complete fairy tale fantasy. IMO Under the circumstances JB hit a solid in the park home run with that trade. Maybe some on CDC hoped and dreamed of such a return for Kes but I would be impressed if you could find even one post that expected that return minimum for Kes... if you do find that post and it's not yours then feel free to replace "CDC" with said username. I will admit that a lot of the trade proposal for Tanev have been, optimistic, to say the least. But as others have stated, the Canucks are not being forced into a trade (Unlike the Kes situation) so unless a deal is too good to pass up, the easy solution is that the Canucks should just wait. Tanev is entering his prime years now and if he continues an upward trajectory or even just stagnates his value will be ridiculous at the TDL. With analytics becoming the new way of building a team for a lot of franchises, there are not too many Dmen available with Tanev's on-paper pedigree. IMO Someone will be willing to pay up if they feel they are close to winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Tanev won't be moved any time soon imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, Aladeen said: Felt compelled to post in response to this... you say CDC expected this? You're on CDC, is this what you expected? Because I think most of the people I saw commenting didn't expect this return at all, in fact I think a lot expected less than what was actually returned because of how much Kesler handcuffed the team by only have 1 viable team he was willing to be traded to. Most people knew that Kes had put the team in a significant trade disadvantage (hence why so many dislike him now) and I think the general CDC consensus is that JB pretty much exceeded the return value in that specific situation. Was Kes valued at more on a complete open market? Definitely. If there was a bidding war between 4 or 5 teams perhaps that return would not have been a complete fairy tale fantasy. IMO Under the circumstances JB hit a solid in the park home run with that trade. Maybe some on CDC hoped and dreamed of such a return for Kes but I would be impressed if you could find even one post that expected that return minimum for Kes... if you do find that post and it's not yours then feel free to replace "CDC" with said username. I will admit that a lot of the trade proposal for Tanev have been, optimistic, to say the least. But as others have stated, the Canucks are not being forced into a trade (Unlike the Kes situation) so unless a deal is too good to pass up, the easy solution is that the Canucks should just wait. Tanev is entering his prime years now and if he continues an upward trajectory or even just stagnates his value will be ridiculous at the TDL. With analytics becoming the new way of building a team for a lot of franchises, there are not too many Dmen available with Tanev's on-paper pedigree. IMO Someone will be willing to pay up if they feel they are close to winning. These are the ones I found quickly, but i'm not about to go through 208 pages to prove my point. If you want to see for yourself, go ahead I gave you the link To which I responded: "I agree, [...] So we can't expect top 10 pick + late first or 2015 first + A grade prospect or top 6 player. Either two of the above. But I still think the best offer we could get would be Anaheim, since they seem more willing to overpay, as they should since they are rivals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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