Jack Rathbone | #3 | D

[EP Phone Home]

1 hour ago, The Great Canucks said:

No, it's only his second year at Harvard. Lockwood is the one going for his fourth year at College.

My mistake it was Lockwood NOT Rathbone on 650 about his final year in NCAA. My apologies everyone. 

[GoldenAlien]

Krug’s freshman year: 38GP - 3G - 21pt

Rathbone’s freshman year: 33GP - 7G - 22pt

[Dixon Ward]

18 hours ago, GoldenAlien said:

Krug’s freshman year: 38GP - 3G - 21pt

Rathbone’s freshman year: 33GP - 7G - 22pt

When you look at Woo, OJ, Rathbone, Tryamkin, Sautner, Brisebois, Utunen, Teves, Rafferty and already having Hughes and Stecher on the NHL roster, you can see why the braintrust didn't draft any defencemen this year.  They take a while to mature and Podz and Hogs were slam dunks so they didn't think any that were available after the 2nd round were better than the one's they've got.  Hughes and OJ will hold down 2 key spots for years.  After that there isn't much room.

[Bure_Pavel]

On 8/28/2019 at 2:19 PM, Dixon Ward said:

When you look at Woo, OJ, Rathbone, Tryamkin, Sautner, Brisebois, Utunen, Teves, Rafferty and already having Hughes and Stecher on the NHL roster, you can see why the braintrust didn't draft any defencemen this year.  They take a while to mature and Podz and Hogs were slam dunks so they didn't think any that were available after the 2nd round were better than the one's they've got.  Hughes and OJ will hold down 2 key spots for years.  After that there isn't much room.

I dont really get your reasoning, the d core listed is not championship level and there are still major question marks. Woo, OJ and Rathbone havent played a NHL game yet and two of them have not played an professional hockey game. Hughes and stetcher are great but they are also on the smaller side and will need help handling the physicality of the playoffs. Canucks need to keep drafting Dmen as it is still the glaring weakness of this team, although improved from last year due to UFA signings.  

 

The number of possible top 6 forwards are: Madden, Gaudette, Lind, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Virtanen, and Goldobin. With Boeser, Horvat, and Petey already locking down three spots. and we also have Miller, Ferland, and Baertchi on the Roster.

 

On Defence we have on OJ, Woo, and Rathbone as potential top 4 players. And only Hughes as a sure thing top 4 Dman for the future. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Bure_Pavel

[Bissurnette]

Hope he keeps taking steps forward this year. This guy will surprise a lot of people with his defensive abilities. Don't be surprised if he plays it a little safe when he turns pro then as he gains more and more confidence, you'll start seeing more offense from him. He's a really good 2way Dman. Krug is a better skater to be sure, and Krug is also a bit more of a risk taker. One thing I noticed about Jack is he doesn't force the play and try to create something out of nothing. But if you give him an inch, he'll take a mile. To me, he's a slightly more mobile Sami Salo. Heavy accurate bomb from the point, gets his shot through, good passer and knows how to find open guys. I've seen him overwhelm a couple of NCAA goalies a couple of times with his cannon from the point. Even if they save the shot, there seems to be a juicy rebound right there for the taking. This guy is a weapon on the PP. I'd pair him up with Hughes on the 1st unit, which allows Hughes to really be 4th forward and create offense from the top of the key, while Rathbone lines up bombs and gets back on defense in case there's an odd man rush the other way. Steady defensively. Doesn't chase but knows when to step up and apply pressure, and when to fall in position. He's got great timing as well. He seems to know where to be at the right time. That's what I saw from him last year, and I hope he keeps taking steps in the right direction this year. He already processes the game perfectly at the collegiate level. This year is about proving he can be a #1 Dman at that level for the whole year. Good leader on and off the ice as well, I'd be shocked if he doesn't at least have an A this year. The 2 biggest questions are:

 

1) Can he translate the way he processes college hockey to the NHL level.

2) Will he be able to improve his skating to be a good/above average skater at the NHL level.

 

Overall he's dynamic and very effective on both end of the ice. He's my kind of player. I'm as excited about Jack as I am about Juolevi, if not more.

 

EDIT: I will keep an eye on him this year, and hopefully keep updating this thread with his progress.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Vanuckles

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I dont really get your reasoning, the d core listed is not championship level and there are still major question marks. Woo, OJ and Rathbone havent played a NHL game yet and two of them have not played an professional hockey game. Hughes and stetcher are great but they are also on the smaller side and will need help handling the physicality of the playoffs. Canucks need to keep drafting Dmen as it is still the glaring weakness of this team, although improved from last year due to UFA signings.  

 

The number of possible top 6 forwards are: Madden, Gaudette, Lind, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Virtanen, and Goldobin. With Boeser, Horvat, and Petey already locking down three spots. and we also have Miller, Ferland, and Baertchi on the Roster.

 

On Defence we have on OJ, Woo, and Rathbone as potential top 4 players. And only Hughes as a sure thing top 4 Dman for the future. 

I have to agree with you.

 

The Canucks weakest spot by far in the prospect pool is with quality defense men. All those d prospects mentioned above show a real mediocre pool with only a few possibly being able to play in the top 6 on an NHL team. But even saying that is a stretch right now because as you said, they haven't even played pro games yet except for OJ.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[Kanukfanatic]

On 8/28/2019 at 2:19 PM, Dixon Ward said:

When you look at Woo, OJ, Rathbone, Tryamkin, Sautner, Brisebois, Utunen, Teves, Rafferty and already having Hughes and Stecher on the NHL roster, you can see why the braintrust didn't draft any defencemen this year.  They take a while to mature and Podz and Hogs were slam dunks so they didn't think any that were available after the 2nd round were better than the one's they've got.  Hughes and OJ will hold down 2 key spots for years.  After that there isn't much room.

I highly doubt the braintrust feels that d prospect pool you mentioned is so deep they didn't want to draft d men.

 

They drafted all forwards probably because they were simply the best players available. Most of that pool you mentioned are simply unproven at this point. But Woo, OJ, and Rathbone do show some promise.

 

Tryamkin is 25 and doesn't really belong in the same conversation. The rest are pretty mediocre...but you never know....one could turn out.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I dont really get your reasoning, the d core listed is not championship level and there are still major question marks. 

Who from the 3rd round on, in the last draft are you guaranteeing to become 'championship level' D men? 

 

And FTR, I'm a proponent of drafting D, before anyone attempts that particular straw man.

Edited August 30, 2019 by aGENT

[Bure_Pavel]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Who from the 3rd round on, in the last draft are you guaranteeing to become 'championship level' D men? 

 

And FTR, I'm a proponent of drafting D, before anyone attempts that particular straw man.

Nothing is guaranteed, Its more of a numbers game. Look at guys we have had in the past though, Bieksa, Erhoff, Salo, Mitchell, Lumme, Lidster. All drafted past the first two rounds. Just need to grab as many lottery tickets as possible, do your homework, and hope for the best. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Nothing is guaranteed, Its more of a numbers game. Look at guys we have had in the past though, Bieksa, Erhoff, Salo, Mitchell, Lumme, Lidster. All drafted past the first two rounds. Just need to grab as many lottery tickets as possible, do your homework, and hope for the best. 

Sure...but then you can't really make this argument:

 

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I dont really get your reasoning, the d core listed is not championship level and there are still major question marks. Woo, OJ and Rathbone havent played a NHL game yet and two of them have not played an professional hockey game.

You're basically contradicting yourself.

[Bure_Pavel]

15 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Sure...but then you can't really make this argument:

 

You're basically contradicting yourself.

No, Im saying this D core is not at a championship level, thus we should continue to draft Dmen. 

 

The original statement I was commenting on way "you can see why the braintrust didn't draft any defencemen this year."

[Yung1]

2 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I dont really get your reasoning, the d core listed is not championship level and there are still major question marks. Woo, OJ and Rathbone havent played a NHL game yet and two of them have not played an professional hockey game. Hughes and stetcher are great but they are also on the smaller side and will need help handling the physicality of the playoffs. Canucks need to keep drafting Dmen as it is still the glaring weakness of this team, although improved from last year due to UFA signings.  

 

The number of possible top 6 forwards are: Madden, Gaudette, Lind, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Virtanen, and Goldobin. With Boeser, Horvat, and Petey already locking down three spots. and we also have Miller, Ferland, and Baertchi on the Roster.

 

On Defence we have on OJ, Woo, and Rathbone as potential top 4 players. And only Hughes as a sure thing top 4 Dman for the future. 

I think smart money bets on OJ and Woo being good top 4's.

 

interesting comparison I'll put past you.

 

edler ehrhoff (two 50 point dmen)

Hamhuis bieksa (solid++ shut down)

Salo Ballard/rome/alberts/rookie tanev

 

that was more or less or defence when we made it to SCF game 7

 

vs.

 

the potential of something like

 

hughes oj

woo myers

stecher rathbone

 

I think the latter has potential to be better. maybe less shutdown ability in that group but more offensive potential. hughes, oj, and woo have 50+ point potential, with hughes potentially being one of the greatest offensive defensemen of all time. also imo oj has a 60 point ceiling.

 

myers is big and can skate but is a bit of weak link defensively. doesnt necessarily put up gaudy numbers but has value.

 

stecher rathbone could end up as a bottom pair that would be a top 4 on most other teams, similar to the depth we had in 2011, maybe better.

 

nothings guaranteed with players that are still developing but I think championship potential is there.

[Bure_Pavel]

2 minutes ago, Yung1 said:

I think smart money bets on OJ and Woo being good top 4's.

 

interesting comparison I'll put past you.

 

edler ehrhoff (two 50 point dmen)

Hamhuis bieksa (solid++ shut down)

Salo Ballard/rome/alberts/rookie tanev

 

that was more or less or defence when we made it to SCF game 7

 

vs.

 

the potential of something like

 

hughes oj

woo myers

stecher rathbone

 

I think the latter has potential to be better. maybe less shutdown ability in that group but more offensive potential. hughes, oj, and woo have 50+ point potential, with hughes potentially being one of the greatest offensive defensemen of all time. also imo oj has a 60 point ceiling.

 

myers is big and can skate but is a bit of weak link defensively. doesnt necessarily put up gaudy numbers but has value.

 

stecher rathbone could end up as a bottom pair that would be a top 4 on most other teams, similar to the depth we had in 2011, maybe better.

 

nothings guaranteed with players that are still developing but I think championship potential is there.

That second pairing of Hamhuis and Bieksa is very underrated, Salo too when healthy. Still uncertainty with the young players like Woo and Rathbone.  

[aGENT]

12 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

No, Im saying this D core is not at a championship level, thus we should continue to draft Dmen. 

 

The original statement I was commenting on way "you can see why the braintrust didn't draft any defencemen this year."

Nobody is claiming we should never draft another D though...

 

You can see why we didn't draft any defensemen this year. Our system is flush with promising 3rd round plus D men. Guy's who are on solid, possibly NHL bound trajectories. Some of whom may even out-develop their draft position and become future 'Bieksa, Erhoff, Salo, Mitchell, Lumme, Lidster's'.

 

Meanwhile you tell us that they basically haven't proven anything yet because they haven't played in the NHL/pro hockey and they're not good enough/'championship level'...while simultaneously telling us that's exactly what we need more of...but at the same time don't because they're not good enough and are still in development leagues (in fact LESS developed than the guys you're poo-pooing).

 

Seems to me, you don't know what you're arguing 

Edited August 30, 2019 by aGENT

[Bure_Pavel]

12 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nobody is claiming we should never draft another D though...

 

You can see why we didn't draft any defensemen this year. Our system is flush with promising 3rd round plus D men. Guy's who are on solid, possibly NHL bound trajectories. Some of whom may even out-develop their draft position and become future 'Bieksa, Erhoff, Salo, Mitchell, Lumme, Lidster's'.

 

Meanwhile you tell us that they basically haven't proven anything yet because they haven't played in the NHL/pro hockey and they're not good enough/'championship level'...while simultaneously telling us that's exactly what we need more of...but at the same time don't because they're not good enough and are still in development leagues (in fact LESS developed than the guys you're poo-pooing).

 

Seems to me, you don't know what you're arguing 

Think you are getting a little confused there, what im saying is very simple. Quality defenseman prospects is the shallowest area of our prospect pool, compared to forwards and goalies, IE we should draft more Dmen. I dont know how to word it more simple than that for you.   

[Kanukfanatic]

31 minutes ago, Yung1 said:

I think smart money bets on OJ and Woo being good top 4's.

 

interesting comparison I'll put past you.

 

edler ehrhoff (two 50 point dmen)

Hamhuis bieksa (solid++ shut down)

Salo Ballard/rome/alberts/rookie tanev

 

that was more or less or defence when we made it to SCF game 7

 

vs.

 

the potential of something like

 

hughes oj

woo myers

stecher rathbone

 

I think the latter has potential to be better. maybe less shutdown ability in that group but more offensive potential. hughes, oj, and woo have 50+ point potential, with hughes potentially being one of the greatest offensive defensemen of all time. also imo oj has a 60 point ceiling.

 

myers is big and can skate but is a bit of weak link defensively. doesnt necessarily put up gaudy numbers but has value.

 

stecher rathbone could end up as a bottom pair that would be a top 4 on most other teams, similar to the depth we had in 2011, maybe better.

 

nothings guaranteed with players that are still developing but I think championship potential is there.

Personally I would prefer a guy like Benn over Stecher but an interesting post for sure.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Think you are getting a little confused there, what im saying is very simple. Quality defenseman prospects is the shallowest area of our prospect pool, compared to forwards and goalies, IE we should draft more Dmen. I dont know how to word it more simple than that for you.   

No, I'm not confused at all. You're arguing out of both ends  

 

'We lack high end D, we needed to draft more late round D's!"

 

"Late round D prospects aren't championship level and have no pro/NHL experience!"

 

It's pretty hilarious! 

 

We 'need' more high end D prospects...sure. The vast majority of whom come from the 1st round and less so the 2nd (but still more than later in the draft). We were not in a position to use our 1st rounder or 2nd rounder on D this year, as there were BPA forwards available in those spots. (Never mind how many D we've drafted in those rounds the last few years...)

 

We're already flush with 3rd round + drafted D (and/or un-drafted UFA's) who are already on solid, possible NHL, possibly higher end NHL, trajectories. We did not need to reach for any D picks this year with other, evidently higher ranked by our scouts, forwards available.

 

The sky is not falling, another 5th round D was not likely to 'fix' our D core now or in 5 years. We are not lacking those guys in our prospect pool. There's no 'plan' to never draft D early... or late in the draft ever again.

 

This is a made up (non) 'issue' that a few bloggers and our typical crack media have managed to lather some of the fan base up about (and/or they've impressively managed it on their own). Find something worthwhile to complain about 

[Bure_Pavel]

26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

No, I'm not confused at all. You're arguing out of both ends  

 

'We lack high end D, we needed to draft more late round D's!"

 

"Late round D prospects aren't championship level and have no pro/NHL experience!"

 

It's pretty hilarious! 

 

We 'need' more high end D prospects...sure. The vast majority of whom come from the 1st round and less so the 2nd (but still more than later in the draft). We were not in a position to use our 1st rounder or 2nd rounder on D this year, as there were BPA forwards available in those spots. (Never mind how many D we've drafted in those rounds the last few years...)

 

We're already flush with 3rd round + drafted D (and/or un-drafted UFA's) who are already on solid, possible NHL, possibly higher end NHL, trajectories. We did not need to reach for any D picks this year with other, evidently higher ranked by our scouts, forwards available.

 

The sky is not falling, another 5th round D was not likely to 'fix' our D core now or in 5 years. We are not lacking those guys in our prospect pool. There's no 'plan' to never draft D early... or late in the draft ever again.

 

This is a made up (non) 'issue' that a few bloggers and our typical crack media have managed to lather some of the fan base up about (and/or they've impressively managed it on their own). Find something worthwhile to complain about 

Those quoted phrases above are not what I was said. You are clearly still confused on both the english language and how to build a prospect pool. I cant make it any simpler for you sorry.   

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Those quoted phrases above are not what I was said. You are clearly still confused on both the english language and how to build a prospect pool. I cant make it any simpler for you sorry.   

Yeah... I was paraphrasing.

 

'Can't make it simpler' = I have no argument.

Edited August 30, 2019 by aGENT

[flat land fish]

I’m a little more optimistic than some here on our future d situation.  So long as Juolevi can fulfill his potential(mostly stay injury free). Guys like woo and rathbone can slowly move up the chain to become 3rd pairing and hopefully 2nd pairing defenders.  We will have some forward prospects who could be traded for d if the d don’t pan out.