Las Vegas - Active Shooter in Mandalay Bay (Updated - 59 Dead, 500+ Injured)

[Ronaldoescobar]

1 minute ago, Down by the River said:

*Cries about generalizations*

 

*"You guys"*

 

Its true and on both sides... Just as they are calling out gun laws and GOP/NRA etc.  As soon as there is another terrorist attack carried out by a Muslim that the people on the opposite side will call out and complain about all Muslims and immigration laws...

 

 

[inane]

Not sure how many times the onion has printed the same thing but it's always true....

 

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-prevent-says-only-nation-where-regularly-ha-57086

 

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

 

LAS VEGAS—In the hours following a violent rampage in Las Vegas in which a lone attacker killed more than 50 individuals and seriously injured 400 others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Monday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said Iowa resident Kyle Rimmels, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep these individuals from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what they really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past eight years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

[Warhippy]

25 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

On one hand, you don't differentiate how people are killed in terrorist attacks..... whether by trucks, bombs or whatever.  

Yet when it comes with guns, it's an issue for you.

 

Household products and a moving truck can killed way more people.... but because "they're not designed to kill" somehow it's supposed to make things better.

IED are illegal and they are still being made to hurt/kill others.  Mass stabbings do occur in places without firearms.  

 

I understand you want to mitigate the risk for future mass killings, but targeting gun owners won't solve anything.  When there are people who wants to harm others, no regulation, restrictions, or whatever will stop it.  Trucks, cars, IED, poison gas.... you can't legislate to prevent mass killings... short of confining everyone.  

I'm not targeting gun owners though.  I'm targeting gun laws.

 

I personally question any one person who NEEDS that AK 47 with all the goodies.  Or 25 guns that all have "different uses" but never actually get used

 

But it's the laws and lobbyists that have to change.  Cut off those sources of easy ownership and over time the amount of guns will dwindle until only purely collectors and enthusiasts own large amounts of guns.

 

 

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Right.  A back up that's ready makes sense.  Good on you.

A muzzle loader doesn't lose much difference over a gas cartridge.  Just keep your cap up and armed at the ready 

 

Believe me I've no desire to harm an animal.  The amount of potential bags I've let walk is scary 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, Warhippy said:

You bagged an elk with a 7?  Nicely done.  Alberta I'm guessing in the boreal or?

Yep, from 300 yards away.  I'm not sure if you're familiar with Alberta's WMU zones but in 305,  approx 30 miles west of head smashed in buffalo jump museum.  filled my freezer up, although I just ate the last of the chops last week, didn't get any tags this year, although my old man finally got his moose tag, hope to go out with him next month.

[Ronaldoescobar]

13 minutes ago, inane said:

Not sure how many times the onion has printed the same thing but it's always true....

 

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-prevent-says-only-nation-where-regularly-ha-57086

 

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

 

LAS VEGAS—In the hours following a violent rampage in Las Vegas in which a lone attacker killed more than 50 individuals and seriously injured 400 others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Monday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said Iowa resident Kyle Rimmels, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep these individuals from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what they really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past eight years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

But if they can stop all illegal immigration by building a big wall and all terrorism by banning travelers of a certain religion from specific countries (aside from the big oil one where most of past terrorists originated from) then there must be something they can do ;P

 

The sad part is over the next few days you will see looser gun restrictions with larger magazines and silencers being made legal. (not that it matters as people will use/acquire those anyway if they are legal or not).

[Lancaster]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I'm not targeting gun owners though.  I'm targeting gun laws.

 

I personally question any one person who NEEDS that AK 47 with all the goodies.  Or 25 guns that all have "different uses" but never actually get used

 

But it's the laws and lobbyists that have to change.  Cut off those sources of easy ownership and over time the amount of guns will dwindle until only purely collectors and enthusiasts own large amounts of guns.

 

 

So... if using myself as an example...

 

I wish to have a semi-auto handgun for target shooting, I also like to own revolvers because they are very beautiful and well-crafted, a bolt action for long-distance target shooting, and a semi-auto rifle because some days I just want to rattle off multiple shots at a range.  Maybe for a few of those guns, I have multiple of them... some I want to modify for ease of use and others I just like to have stock to change pace to get a feel of how it was intended.

 

I'm not intending to harm anyone, I will definitely keep them all in a safe with trigger locks and all, ammo will also be stored safely, and will be complying with all laws and regulations.  Are you against what I'm doing?

[PunjabiCanucks]

36 minutes ago, CanuckGAME said:

"You guys"

 

What the ****?  Since when is a whole race responsible for the acts of single individuals?  You can't fight racism with racism buddy.  I haven't pushed any Muslim label.  Reading that was just sad.   

 

I didn't get called out on nothing.  And don't feel victimized whatsoever.  Want to know why?  Because I'm not responsible for the Vegas shooters actions just because we share the same color of skin.  

 

I stand by what I said.  People like YOU are what's wrong with this world.  When people stop separating each other by race or religion is when we will see growth.

If that is the case, how come POCS get labelled and discriminated for what their race has done... I am not responsible for other's actions and yet we get that. 

 

I'm not the one seperating others by race / religion, media is and the world is. People blame Muslims for everything, is that fair? Why do the actions of same crazy lunatics in ISIS get pushed onto Muslims? Why do people have their hijabs ripped off a day after a terror attack? Why do mosque/ temples get attacked?

[trek]

Jumping back in here and responding to the thought of having metal detectors at hotels... I find that totally unreasonable. Unless you are going to screen every single piece of luggage coming in and out, people will invariably have metal. They will have items in their bags and things that trip the detectors and will render them useless.  If they need to put screeners at entrances to private property such as hotels - well the terrorists have won imo. And that is not a healthy society.

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

So... if using myself as an example...

 

I wish to have a semi-auto handgun for target shooting, I also like to own revolvers because they are very beautiful and well-crafted, a bolt action for long-distance target shooting, and a semi-auto rifle because some days I just want to rattle off multiple shots at a range.  Maybe for a few of those guns, I have multiple of them... some I want to modify for ease of use and others I just like to have stock to change pace to get a feel of how it was intended.

 

I'm not intending to harm anyone, I will definitely keep them all in a safe with trigger locks and all, ammo will also be stored safely, and will be complying with all laws and regulations.  Are you against what I'm doing?

I have personal feelings about that yes.  As I personally don't feel there is a need to own all of that.  There is only 1 need to own a weapon in my eyes and that's hunting.  If I could draw a string still I wouldn't even own a muzzle loader (always had one just in case the arrow didn't kill, goes back to dragging a carcass across a clear cut)

 

But I won't out and out say that it is essentially wrong either as it is within the laws.  Change those laws and watch over time as these weapons dry up and stop falling in to the hands of people like this.  And when the inevitable DOES happen watch even more end up getting destroyed 

 

There is an estimated 3.3 million AR-15's in private hands in the US alone.  An estimated 8 to 9 million M-16 and M-14 rifles 

 

Why?

 

These are weapons I have always had issue with.  There is no reason to own them.  Ruger Mini 14's and frigging brownings in private hands?  I'll never be ok with that

 

Make concrete laws which outlaw them, concrete laws about not only ownership but also ammunition purchase and in time these will end up essentially in the arms of law enforcement or in the hands of true collectors.  I mean damn Lanc; attending gun shows in the US is essentially like watching a civilized version of those black market arms bazaars in pakistan.

[Adarsh Sant]

To those saying this should be called terrorism....

 

Terrorism needs to be in pursuit of political aims.

 

This doesn't seem to be a political attack. So not terrorism.

[Rob_Zepp]

8 minutes ago, trek said:

Jumping back in here and responding to the thought of having metal detectors at hotels... I find that totally unreasonable. Unless you are going to screen every single piece of luggage coming in and out, people will invariably have metal. They will have items in their bags and things that trip the detectors and will render them useless.  If they need to put screeners at entrances to private property such as hotels - well the terrorists have won imo. And that is not a healthy society.

Then why bother with planes, libraries, concerts, pro sporting events etc.......?   If there are exceptions then the terrorists have won too as there are options for exploiting that weakness.    It is so routine now to get screened in other locations, what is one more?    

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, trek said:

Jumping back in here and responding to the thought of having metal detectors at hotels... I find that totally unreasonable. Unless you are going to screen every single piece of luggage coming in and out, people will invariably have metal. They will have items in their bags and things that trip the detectors and will render them useless.  If they need to put screeners at entrances to private property such as hotels - well the terrorists have won imo. And that is not a healthy society.

People are going to do bad things, and there's not much we can do to prevent them.  I heard some talking about the right to carry a gun, and how that could prevent some terrible things from happening.  This case though is so different from other shootings.  The shooter got into a concealed and elevated position.  He was like a sniper.  There was nothing, other than being aware of your own surroundings, that anyone could do.  I don't know if it's about giving in to terror by having more security.  I do know, in this particular case, there was likely nothing that could have prevented it.  

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, Adarsh Sant said:

To those saying this should be called terrorism....

 

Terrorism needs to be in pursuit of political aims.

 

This doesn't seem to be a political attack. So not terrorism.

Could not disagree more with a post if I tried.   You cannot define terrorism like that - well, I guess you can as that is how dictionarys do but it sucks.   In my world, IF you create terror with innocent people, you are a terrorist.    Someone ups and starts shooting people from the rafters of your next NHL game but claims no political motive, was the terror the people felt any less real?   

[trek]

Just now, Rob_Zepp said:

Then why bother with planes, libraries, concerts, pro sporting events etc.......?   If there are exceptions then the terrorists have won too as there are options for exploiting that weakness.    It is so routine now to get screened in other locations, what is one more?    

Why bother with planes? Well in that context there are items that one is forbidden to have for the safety of everyone on the aircraft. Same with concerts and sporting events. What's one more? Where does it end? Screen every entrance to every piece of private property?

[Lancaster]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I have personal feelings about that yes.  As I personally don't feel there is a need to own all of that.  There is only 1 need to own a weapon in my eyes and that's hunting.  If I could draw a string still I wouldn't even own a muzzle loader (always had one just in case the arrow didn't kill, goes back to dragging a carcass across a clear cut)

 

But I won't out and out say that it is essentially wrong either as it is within the laws.  Change those laws and watch over time as these weapons dry up and stop falling in to the hands of people like this.  And when the inevitable DOES happen watch even more end up getting destroyed 

 

There is an estimated 3.3 million AR-15's in private hands in the US alone.  An estimated 8 to 9 million M-16 and M-14 rifles 

 

Why?

 

These are weapons I have always had issue with.  There is no reason to own them.  Ruger Mini 14's and frigging brownings in private hands?  I'll never be ok with that

 

Make concrete laws which outlaw them, concrete laws about not only ownership but also ammunition purchase and in time these will end up essentially in the arms of law enforcement or in the hands of true collectors.  I mean damn Lanc; attending gun shows in the US is essentially like watching a civilized version of those black market arms bazaars in pakistan.

I understand your opinion, but I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

You own firearm(s) and I will be owning firearm(s) (gotta buy baby stuff first).... yet we can't fully agree on what's the acceptable level for responsible gun ownership.

And to think there are way more zealous pro-2nd and anti-2nd out there

[Rob_Zepp]

3 minutes ago, trek said:

Why bother with planes? Well in that context there are items that one is forbidden to have for the safety of everyone on the aircraft. Same with concerts and sporting events. What's one more? Where does it end? Screen every entrance to every piece of private property?

Not talking private - talking situations where large public gatherings exist.   Someone wants to take a gun to someone's house, that is messed up too but at least it isn't quite the same issue.   Try entering a courthouse sometime with a gun and see how that works out for you - so people don't take guns with them.   If there was a detector in hotels people would soon get the picture and it would cause little grief beyond an initial "hey, this sucks .. like the airport".

 

Until society starts taking away guns from people, not sure what else to do as clearly it is not getting any better out there.    

 

I do agree with you that terrorists are winning - if their aim is to modify the way people live, they are succeeding. 

[Baer.]

35 minutes ago, inane said:

Not sure how many times the onion has printed the same thing but it's always true....

 

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-prevent-says-only-nation-where-regularly-ha-57086

 

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

 

LAS VEGAS—In the hours following a violent rampage in Las Vegas in which a lone attacker killed more than 50 individuals and seriously injured 400 others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Monday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said Iowa resident Kyle Rimmels, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep these individuals from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what they really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past eight years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

Did you really just post an onion article. Things like this happen all the time in places like Brazil, Philippines, many other countries. If you think shootings like this only happen in the United States, you are poorly informed.

[kloubek]

32 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I'm not targeting gun owners though.  I'm targeting gun laws.

 

I personally question any one person who NEEDS that AK 47 with all the goodies.  Or 25 guns that all have "different uses" but never actually get used

 

But it's the laws and lobbyists that have to change.  Cut off those sources of easy ownership and over time the amount of guns will dwindle until only purely collectors and enthusiasts own large amounts of guns.

 

 

I'm with you.  I'm a huge fan of guns.  Love 'em.  The feeling of firing a fully automatic weapon is a real thrill.  

 

But I'm glad we don't allow them here in Canada.  Not that I personally wouldn't want to own one - but because some people simply shouldn't have guns at all - let alone fully automatic ones.  This guy would likely never have been able to kill and injure nearly as many as he did if the US had the same gun laws as we do.  

 

But no - there are a lot of citizens in the US who believe it is their right and are up in arms (so to speak) as soon as anyone suggest curbing the laws to restrict such weapons.  Until America bands together enough to do something about this, we will continue to see mass-scale shootings there.

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, Adarsh Sant said:

To those saying this should be called terrorism....

 

Terrorism needs to be in pursuit of political aims.

 

This doesn't seem to be a political attack. So not terrorism.

Nevada state law defines terrorism as such

 

‘any act that involves the use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to cause great bodily harm or death to the general population’

 

If you seriously don't think this is an act of terrorism because he didn't yell some religious slogan or say he hated political party X or Y than I am sorry, you cannot be helped try another business sir.