Stop the Sedin Hate

[mikeyman109]

I want to start a thread titled :" stop the Horvat Boeser young guys Hate"

There's been a lot of Young guys bashing going on here these past few weeks. People have been calling them a burden for the team, that the young guys cant lead, Bo  isn't ready to be a captain and that we have to resign the Sedins. This makes me truly sad. The Young players are the next real superstars to  play their entire careers for us, and now they get this treatment? 

 

Sure, they aren't the elite players they will become yet, but given their more ice time and experience, I don't think that you can call them bad. Some are on pace for career highs, and Boeser is on pace for 35 goals. Those a really respectable numbers for any player, and especially ones in their first couple of seasons

 

We have some physical or fast players waiting, but they are strong on the puck, and have the ability to speed up the game with their superb passing and skating. The fact that they get 3rd and fourth line minutes is amazing they can put up these  numbers

 

There are new mentors on this team like Edler, Gudbranson, Gagner for Bo, Brock, Elias, Jonathan and hopefully Rasmus. They work hard, always talk to media and are all around great people. 

 

I say cherish the time the Sedins retire because its only going to get better from here,

With apologies to the OP

[skategal]

Anyone else wondering if there is any significance to the Sedin Bobbleheads and the discussion about whether they retire at end of the season?  I'm sure I'm drawing lines between dots that ought not to be connected, but....

[mikeyman109]

4 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said:

I get what you're saying, but let's leave that up to the Sedins and the Canucks organization. 

I believe it should be up to the organization not the Sedins.

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The Twins will be back for one more season.  Whether that’s good or not?  We are still needing high picks in that 2019 draft, and the Twins can help us get there.  So can Gagner, Errikson, and our two goalies.  I really think JB will hold our youth off for one more season.  If he trades Tanev for 2019 picks then for sure that’s his plan.  

I hope they are not back for one more season. Its time to move on but i respect your opinion. I believe there is no win in bring back two older players who cannot play the style the coach wants to play, who cannot be held accountable to the same standard as the younger players and may not be able to produce the way they did this year with limited minutes.

[Nave]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The Twins will be back for one more season.  Whether that’s good or not?  We are still needing high picks in that 2019 draft, and the Twins can help us get there.  So can Gagner, Errikson, and our two goalies.  I really think JB will hold our youth off for one more season.  If he trades Tanev for 2019 picks then for sure that’s his plan.  

I think we'll bring up Pettersson, and the Sedins would be great mentors for him. I actually think they might play on the same line.

[mikeyman109]

9 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said:

I think we'll bring up Pettersson, and the Sedins would be great mentors for him. I actually think they might play on the same line.

we can do this this year

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

I believe it should be up to the organization not the Sedins.

I hope they are not back for one more season. Its time to move on but i respect your opinion. I believe there is no win in bring back two older players who cannot play the style the coach wants to play, who cannot be held accountable to the same standard as the younger players and may not be able to produce the way they did this year with limited minutes.

I don’t know if I want them back or not.  I think JB will bring them back, and keep with a pretty similar roster to what we have now to get us a top pick in 2019.  He will likely trade Tanev too, which will keep us at the bottom.  Guys like Gaudette and Pettersson, although I’d love to see them here, might be too good, and just get us to the middle.

[mikeyman109]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I don’t know if I want them back or not.  I think JB will bring them back, and keep with a pretty similar roster to what we have now to get us a top pick in 2019.  He will likely trade Tanev too, which will keep us at the bottom.  Guys like Gaudette and Pettersson, although I’d love to see them here, might be too good, and just get us to the middle.

I agree trading Tanev would keep us at the bottom as well as if the roster doesnt change. We saw good things from the boys before the injuries hit us hard. We may start out next year the same way. But we need a first round defenseman from this draft whether he plays this year or not and another prospect D man in the second round as well. Id go

First round D

Second Round D

third round G

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

I agree trading Tanev would keep us at the bottom as well as if the roster doesnt change. We saw good things from the boys before the injuries hit us hard. We may start out next year the same way. But we need a first round defenseman from this draft whether he plays this year or not and another prospect D man in the second round as well. Id go

First round D

Second Round D

third round G

I think our first pick needs to be BPA.  Then, if our prospects work out to become really good, we can trade a young elite forward for a young elite D.  I think of how Columbus got Seth Jones.

[smithers joe]

1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

I believe it should be up to the organization not the Sedins.

I hope they are not back for one more season. Its time to move on but i respect your opinion. I believe there is no win in bring back two older players who cannot play the style the coach wants to play, who cannot be held accountable to the same standard as the younger players and may not be able to produce the way they did this year with limited minutes.

your saying that the team wants them to retire and they want to continue. just maybe, the team wants them for one more year but they haven't decided yet. i don't know which way it is. either way, i'm cool with the decision.

[smithers joe]

1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

I agree trading Tanev would keep us at the bottom as well as if the roster doesnt change. We saw good things from the boys before the injuries hit us hard. We may start out next year the same way. But we need a first round defenseman from this draft whether he plays this year or not and another prospect D man in the second round as well. Id go

First round D

Second Round D

third round G

i'm not for trading tanev but if we do, i'ld want it to be to edmonton for their 1st pick or to toronto for their 1st and a top defensive prospect. 

[mikeyman109]

36 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think our first pick needs to be BPA.  Then, if our prospects work out to become really good, we can trade a young elite forward for a young elite D.  I think of how Columbus got Seth Jones.

Thats nt a very realistic trade. You dont trade forwards for D you trade forwards and another forward or a pick sorry O never buy the you take the BPA. You pick what you need most unless that player is significantly lower in the prospect pool . then you look at trading down. There is not a forward in this draft I would take over the top three or four D men this year

[mikeyman109]

34 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

your saying that the team wants them to retire and they want to continue. just maybe, the team wants them for one more year but they haven't decided yet. i don't know which way it is. either way, i'm cool with the decision.

I am saying the Sedins should not make the decision whether they come back the team should.

[Alflives]

Just now, mikeyman109 said:

Thats nt a very realistic trade. You dont trade forwards for D you trade forwards and another forward or a pick sorry O never buy the you take the BPA. You pick what you need most unless that player is significantly lower in the prospect pool . then you look at trading down. There is not a forward in this draft I would take over the top three or four D men this year

Not even Tkatchuk?

[Toyotasfan]

To the “Stop the Sedin Hate “ post I submit “hurt feelings report” feel free to fill it out.

[canucksnihilist]

On 3/3/2018 at 9:32 AM, CaptainLinden16 said:

Its your crowed that missed it in the beginning, understood it in the middle because the team was great, and you are missing the boat again now.  You don't understand them as players.  You don't get that type of hockey, and that's fine.  Jagr slow as molasses played into his 40s, Joe Thornton is also slow and a defensively liability, heck Tavares is well below average in speed.  When the NHL was all about size (Kings, Bruins), they were too soft.  Now that the NHL is all about speed (TB, LVG, PIT, NSH), they are too slow.  They are not physical players yet they have a better durability record than anyone who has ever played for the team.  They have better offensive record than anyone who has ever played for the team.  They are just underappreciated because everyone loves goals and hits a lot more than they love assists.  They always will be underappreciated just like having a good goalie. A team needs all parts to be successful.

 

What team in the NHL would EVER consider getting rid of two top 90 scorers playing 15 minutes per night?  I mean seriously?  Forget that they are legends and icons in the community and that they bring a level of professionalism to practices and games that should be emulated.  On production alone they are an automatic to return. 

their points come when the team is out of the playoff race, or when the game is over and lost already.  because the other team doesn't play them as hard.

 

they were the best players in franchise history imho - I loved watching them.  but imho they are near retirement, and show it.  I don't mind you wanting it to last longer than it really does, I wish it were so... but it is obviously not, at least to me and many others.

 

peace

 

 

[CaptainLinden16]

1 hour ago, canucksnihilist said:

their points come when the team is out of the playoff race, or when the game is over and lost already.  because the other team doesn't play them as hard.

 

they were the best players in franchise history imho - I loved watching them.  but imho they are near retirement, and show it.  I don't mind you wanting it to last longer than it really does, I wish it were so... but it is obviously not, at least to me and many others.

 

peace

 

 

What obvious?????  Daniel is now 73 and Henrik tied for 87th.  I mean they really are getting worse and worse.

 

Do you honestly think the team is better than it was in 2011?  Is it not possible that Good players would play worse playing with worse players?  What effect does a bad team have on the Sedin's?  Is it worth 1 point, 5 points or 30 points?  I am not making a definitive statement as to what exactly that effect.is.  But to deny that this has any impact on their performance is ridiculous. 

 

The only facts are:  They are playing significantly less, they are top 90 in scoring, and the team overall is bottom 5-10 team in the NHL. 

 

Taking all of that into context then saying they "show it" or that its "obviously not".  Make me believe you either don't understand what those words actually mean.  Or you making a popular emotional argument to join the crowd.  Every statement you make is devoid of reasoning or facts.  You simply continually reassert your opinion without backing it up with anything at all.  Worst of all you blatantly ignore genuinely obvious things that are in opposition to your opinion. 

 

The only thing I will concede are points you haven't even made.  Henrik is having an off year relative to Daniel precisely because he has Willie Desjardains vision of the team.  He simply doesn't trust anyone other than Daniel and that is why he is passing even more to Daniel than he naturally does.  He is shooting even less due to a loss of confidence in his shot because of a couple of bad bounces during the year.  He was never a threat to score more than 10, but at 2 you can tell its in his head.  Daniel isn't experience the same issues on either front. 

 

Their defensive numbers were absolutely fine when partnered with Sutter or Hansen.  It is important to get the right kind of winger to play with them.  Burrows was excellent in his own zone.  Much like Pavelski does all the defensive work for Thornton so did Burrows for the Sedin's.  There is nothing wrong with that.  Ideally a perfect line has compliments not 3 versions of the same 200 ft player.  Goldobin and Vanek are absolutely disastrous defensively.  They are exponentially worse defensively than the Sedins.  It is definitely are recipe for disaster playing a combination of the three together.  (Goldobin is a -12 in 22 games over a full season that would be -40 or more)  That's your favorite defensive indicator.

 

The Sedins are excellent on the powerplay, and they need a fast defensive winger 5 on 5 who will crash the net.  It really isn't that complicated.  Where it gets meddled with is when the team is loosing and needs to catchup.  That has been a lot this season.  Because wait for it the team is BAD at hockey right now and has been for some time.  When the team finishes a season as a top 16 team in the league, I guarantee you will be very surprised by the Sedin's +/- stats.  Plus minue is overwhelmingly a team stat.

 

Ekman-Larson -35

Nick Leddy -34

Erik Karlsson -30 

Kyle Okoposo -29

Jeff Skinner -25

Jonathan Drouin/Alex Galchenyuk -24

Mike Hoffman - 20

BRENT BURNS -19!!(that's on a good team)

Mika Zibenjad -18

Jack Eichel -14

Luke Glendening -14 (excellent defensive center playing for terrible Detroit)

 

These are all VERY good players playing on BAD teams.  Tasked with taking risks playing from behind to get their teams level.  It backfires more often then not because the rest of the team isn't very good.

 

If you truely like the Sedins then please use reason and judgement instead of just jumping on the latest bandwagon BS line of thought that this forum produces or whatever other Vancouver media source garbage. 

 

Erik Karlsson is at no threat of mandatory retirement and neither is Jack Eichel so why should the Sedin's because they are minus players?

 

 

 

[Brovat]

I hope they come back on 1 year cap friendly deals until they’re pushed out. 

 

 

[CaptainLinden16]

27 minutes ago, Brovat said:

I hope they come back on 1 year cap friendly deals until they’re pushed out. 

 

 

Agree entirely.  Let the young kids prove they deserve their spots by actually outplaying them!

[CaptainLinden16]

Additional facts:

- no team in the NHL has a loosing record leading after the 1st period

- only one team Pittsburgh has a winning record play from behind after the first period

 

What does that mean?

- it is much easier to score on a team when you are ahead than to be scored on by the team that is behind.

 

Sedin ice time goes up when the team is behind.  Sedin ice time goes down when the team is ahead.  This makes a lot of sense logically as well.  When you are behind you play your offensive players to catchup. Ganuce, Sutter and Dowd aren't scoring.  Green loves playing his defensive forwards when ahead. 

 

Just based off of the natural dynamics of hockey you would 100% expect the Sedin's to be minus players on the 27th ranked team on the league.  Couple that with playing a lot of Hockey with Goldobin and Vanek voila you have a bad minus number.  This is also why Boeser is a minus player.  Well then you say wait a minute why are the Sedin's a higher minus total than Boeser.  Partner the Sedin's with Horvat and let them play more when the team is ahead and again you will have them with substantially improved plus/minus that's.  Horvat alone would make them plus players on the season.

 

The Sedin's were always slow and below average defensively.  They are not magically too slow to play defense now.  They are playing from behind on a bad team often with a linemate that is even substantially worse than they are defensively.

 

Its not rocket science.  The people on here bashing the Sedin's actually never liked them.  It was just akin to spitting in the wind to say they are bad while they were collecting Art Ross and Presidents Trophies.  Now that the team is bad again, it safe to come out and make the exact same arguments that were made 16 years ago.  They really are the exact same arguments.

 

They are PLAYMAKERS they need someone on other end to finish and they need defensive support in their own zone.  That has always always always been the case.  They didn't teleport pucks into the net in 2011 and no Daniel never could shoot the puck like Brock Boeser or Markus Naslund or Pavel Bure.  He is scoring the same goals he always has.  Their game is more predictable because they have less options.  Erhoff, Salo and Edler were all a threat to score from the blueline when the team was good.  Heck even Kevin Bieksa had 3-40 point seasons.  There will not be a single defenseman to get 35 points on this team this year!!!!!!!(edler is on pace for 34).  The team has 12 goals from the blue line this year.  Erhoff has 14 by himself in 2011.  The team scored 42 that year.  That dynamic completely changes the way the other team plays you defensively.  You can afford to pressure Henrik and Daniel when they have the puck because their outlet is nobody.  There is a reason teams didn't do it in 2011 is because they knew they were one pass away from Erhoff, Edler, Sale, Bieka, even Hammer (scored 6 which would have him top on the team this year) putting it in the net.

 

They were never players who could take it coast to coast and score on breakaways (they never shoot in the shootout and that's with no defensemen chasing them hahahaha).  They were never excellent defensive players.  They are now exactly what they were before.  The team is just BAD plain and simple.

[Brovat]

They’re simply good at hockey. 

 

I havent seen them then live in years and I’m gonna head down to the game tomorrow night. 

 

If they still demand half the attention they received the last time I saw them play they’re good enough to be on the team.

 

When they’d come come over the boards and the opposing team would scramble to get the match up it always made me feel good. I have a feeling it’s still sort of like that. So much they do for the Canucks is not captured on the score board and not captured on the TV cams.