TFerguson Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 22 hours ago, Baggins said: Linden has already said he'd like them back next season. So it is really up to them. I won't be surprised if they sign another year or retire. Nor will it bother me either way. What they've done for the team and the city they've earned the right to decide how and when they go out. But I don't really see there being room for them beyond next season. I imagine the Sedins can see that as well. This is the piece that bothers me - please don't misconstrue it as hate. They've earned respect. They've earned their paycheques. They've earned admiration. They've earned all the celebrations of their careers that will follow for years after their retirement. But, IMHO, they've not earned the right to decide how/when the Canucks move forward. This is where we need a clear line between employer/employee. When Trevor came out a couple seasons ago and said it wouldn't be fair to the twins (or he wouldn't know how) to walk into the room and tell them he's tearing it down, I was baffled. That's what leaders do - they make hard decisions based on what they believe is best for the team. If he thinks it's best for the team that the Sedins stay - great. But it has to be his decision, not theirs. The deference to the twins is what makes it really hard for me to get excited about them coming back for another year, even though I see the elements that they still do bring. I will (and have) always cheered for this team whether I agree with the direction or not. But I'm very ready for a clearly articulated and executed vision that puts winning a championship above all (and everyone) else. What I can't stand is upper management that feels like they need to tiptoe around the people who work for them - no matter how admirable they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, AllWeatherFan said: But, IMHO, they've not earned the right to decide how/when the Canucks move forward. Damn right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 40 minutes ago, aliboy said: That isn't at all the point here! If you look at the team stats it's pretty clear that there isn't anyone pushing them right now, if there was they would likely just step aside themselves. This team needs to start being competitive again when it's ready, as the young players become ready, trying to rush things gets one nowhere. If we loose those veterans too soon we then become like the Oilers were for years, were the kids are left to themselves and it isn't the right approach. It's simply an issue that some people here don't have the patients to let the process work the way it should. The team will not end up like the Oilers at all because of how the Sedins and Edler have already helped transition the youth into leadership roles over the last few lean years. Look no further than Bo. The guy is a natural leader, and learned a huge amount not only from the Sedins, but from Dorsett as well. Stecher and Gudbranson have gained invaluable experience from Edler. This is obvious. This won't become an issue of the kids being left to themselves, as the "process" has already been managed effectively. This team is in danger of becoming the like the Flames were right before they traded Iginla though. Holding onto veterans just a bit too long, which impacted that actual transition to the next core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, AllWeatherFan said: This is the piece that bothers me - please don't misconstrue it as hate. They've earned respect. They've earned their paycheques. They've earned admiration. They've earned all the celebrations of their careers that will follow for years after their retirement. But, IMHO, they've not earned the right to decide how/when the Canucks move forward. This is where we need a clear line between employer/employee. When Trevor came out a couple seasons ago and said it wouldn't be fair to the twins (or he wouldn't know how) to walk into the room and tell them he's tearing it down, I was baffled. That's what leaders do - they make hard decisions based on what they believe is best for the team. If he thinks it's best for the team that the Sedins stay - great. But it has to be his decision, not theirs. The deference to the twins is what makes it really hard for me to get excited about them coming back for another year, even though I see the elements that they still do bring. I will (and have) always cheered for this team whether I agree with the direction or not. But I'm very ready for a clearly articulated and executed vision that puts winning a championship above all (and everyone) else. What I can't stand is upper management that feels like they need to tiptoe around the people who work for them - no matter how admirable they are. and this piece bothers me you read way too much into the sedins so called power they are ufas at the end of this season if they want to come back and management wants them back they will be back if they do not want to come back they won't if management does not want them to come back they won't do you really think they can make canuck management sign a contract with them if they are not wanted ? get real stop imputing nonsense to the sedins it's all in your head leave it there please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Henrik has 40 assists though. I've always posed the question. If a player has 82 points in a season, but they are all assists is he a bad player? Or just a good setup guy? What are the odds two rookies will step in and provide 80-100 points of offence next season? That's a pretty big gap to fill. I guess I look at the overall standings and ask if it makes a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFerguson Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, coastal.view said: and this piece bothers me you read way too much into the sedins so called power they are ufas at the end of this season if they want to come back and management wants them back they will be back if they do not want to come back they won't if management does not want them to come back they won't do you really think they can make canuck management sign a contract with them if they are not wanted ? get real stop imputing nonsense to the sedins it's all in your head leave it there please I took issue with what TL has publicly stated regarding the future of the twins. This is not a fabrication out of thin air like you're trying to make it sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 28 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: The team will not end up like the Oilers at all because of how the Sedins and Edler have already helped transition the youth into leadership roles over the last few lean years. Look no further than Bo. The guy is a natural leader, and learned a huge amount not only from the Sedins, but from Dorsett as well. Stecher and Gudbranson have gained invaluable experience from Edler. This is obvious. This won't become an issue of the kids being left to themselves, as the "process" has already been managed effectively. This team is in danger of becoming the like the Flames were right before they traded Iginla though. Holding onto veterans just a bit too long, which impacted that actual transition to the next core. The process of transitioning the youth has just begun and is still progressing, there is a least a couple more years to go. Having the twins for at least one more year will be a very good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Just now, aliboy said: The process of transitioning the youth has just begun and is still progressing, there is a least a couple more years to go. Having the twins for at least one more year will be a very good thing. Benning has been slowly overturning the roster for three seasons now. It hasn't just begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Benning has been slowly overturning the roster for three seasons now. It hasn't just begun. We are about to enter the other side of the Venn diagram into the Sedinless era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 46 minutes ago, coastal.view said: and this piece bothers me you read way too much into the sedins so called power they are ufas at the end of this season if they want to come back and management wants them back they will be back if they do not want to come back they won't if management does not want them to come back they won't do you really think they can make canuck management sign a contract with them if they are not wanted ? get real stop imputing nonsense to the sedins it's all in your head leave it there please Not so simple...if the Sedins announce they would like to come back and management says they are not wanted, it would be a PR nightmare and fly in the face of what Linden has stated publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: Benning might get overridden on this decision. That would be a shame if it happens. 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: My concern is that they are doing as much for marketing as production (which as you say can be replaced). I see a lot of media saying 'who's going to sell tickets if not the Sedins'? Those hacks (the media) will say anything to get hits. 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: well, are they selling out now? when I see 5,000 people showing up for a summer prospects scrimmage that tells me the market is hungry for younger talent, not to all be "McDavid" but to have the fun of watching prospects get better and also selling some hope that the team will return to playoff form. Agreed 100%. The average fan isn't interested in a trip down memory lane, as that has proven to amount to nothing more than the offsetting of the future. Signing the Sedins in hopes of increasing ticket sales would serve exactly the opposite purpose. 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: I think marketing is a terrible reason to hang on to the twins. Now, if you really think as a GM we can't replace the production for one more year then fine, whatever, we know what it will look like but don't expect a lot of excitement over it in the market. I hope that's not the case, because if it is, the Canucks organization needs to fire their entire marketing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Benning has been slowly overturning the roster for three seasons now. It hasn't just begun. He been turning over the roster with what? Our defense still needs a great deal of work and could yet see considerable turn over. The goalies we have this year will last how much longer?? We have Bo and Brock up front, I think Jake is going to develop into a very good player. The jury is out on a number of our young forwards as to will they become pieces that could help one day compete for a cup or will they become assets that at some point will be traded. We have EP and JD coming in along with a number of other good young players who are more likely to become a part of the group that will one day compete and they haven't even begun the process. There is still a considerable amount of turn over that will happen before we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, aliboy said: He been turning over the roster with what? Hockey players. Acquired through the draft, free agency, trades, and the like. 10 minutes ago, aliboy said: Our defense still needs a great deal of work and could yet see considerable turn over. Certainly. Edler most likely won't be re-signed after his contract is up, and Tanev and Hutton could be traded. 10 minutes ago, aliboy said: The goalies we have this year will last how much longer?? Not very long. I highly doubt both will be back, and possibly neither. Benning clearly stated that the position was up for grabs this year, and neither really possesses the capability to be a number one. 10 minutes ago, aliboy said: We have Bo and Brock up front, I think Jake is going to develop into a very good player. The jury is out on a number of our young forwards as to will they become pieces that could help one day compete for a cup or will they become assets that at some point will be traded. We have EP and JD coming in along with a number of other good young players who are more likely to become a part of the group that will one day compete and they haven't even begun the process. There is still a considerable amount of turn over that will happen before we get there. All teams go through roster turnover and have points in their trajectories where they hand the reigns over to a new core. That portion of the transition is nearly upon this team. Bo is ready for the captaincy, and there are enough younger players to embrace being part of the new core and guiding the new era. Benning is drafting a lot of player who will be keepers, not just warm bodies filling roster spots. The time is coming where the Sedins' worth to the team as players is waning. Their worth will soon translate to the legacy over their career which could come into jeopardy if they go out with a fizzle instead of going out strong which they still can do this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper007 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, alfstonker said: The Canucks have 11 players over 25 years old not including the Twins. 8 of them are 28 or over. ( not including goalies) My point remains, we have enough experience and good character in the team without the Sedins. It also remains a fact that both Jake and Nikita turned up at the beginning of the season out of condition under the Twins mentorship. Kassian also had problems under the Twins mentorship. So because Jake and Nikita were out of shape this was the Twins mentorship?? This is the stupidest comment I have ever heard. The Sedins' can only show how you should do it. Whether you do it or not is a personal responsibility. Blaming the Sedins' for Kassian having problems?? Are you serious? This is so wrong on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper007 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said: Why does everyone look to EN goals stat to save the twins? Reaching. Maybe because EN goals count as a -ve in the +/- rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Benning is drafting a lot of player who will be keepers, not just warm bodies filling roster spots. The time is coming where the Sedins' worth to the team as players is waning. Their worth will soon translate to the legacy over their career which could come into jeopardy if they go out with a fizzle instead of going out strong which they still can do this season. I agree with this, but a number of those players are just coming starting with next season, and they haven't begun the process of transitioning to the NHL. Next year is the year in which we will start to form the real next core with the young players we will add to Bo and Brock and Jake and it will start to get more exciting. The twins absolutely can play for at least one more year and those young players will benefit greatly from having them around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I can't resist any longer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanaholic Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 On 3/1/2018 at 8:00 AM, Hutton Wink said: That wasn't the question. Clearly if they do not want to return, they will not be on the team. But what if they want to keep playing but the team does not want them -- who decides? If the team says "no thanks" does that make them "haters", too? Or do the Sedins alone determine whether they continue to play on the Vancouver Canucks? There seems to be some sense of underlying entitlement at play here. Ultimately the team decides . .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snucks Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Its Henrik that has not been playing that well . He has made a lot of mistakes costing the team goals against. His brother seems in better shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, snucks said: Its Henrik that has not been playing that well . He has made a lot of mistakes costing the team goals against. His brother seems in better shape. I dunno. That "2" in the goals for the season column is looking pretty snazzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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