[Discussion] Canucks turned down offers on Sutter (Sticking with the plan)

[kingofsurrey]

50 minutes ago, ohmy said:

Thats statistically incorrect. Career average is 16 goals over 82 games. Just had 11 in a shortened season. 

Players are only as good as their last season

 

sutter last year was pretty bad 

 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

4 teams called every day for him huh? Makes you wonder why so many people would throw him away for a 3rd rounder. Despite the fact he played a huge role in the Sedins being deployed properly. Bo and Boeser getting less difficult match ups too. I'd even say playing with Virtanen helped Jake's game develop. That's like 5 players right there that benefited from Sutter being on the team. I have really grown to love Sutter and his position on this team. With the Sedins gone he is someone I'd like to have around our young players.

 

Edit: And before people vomit the offensive numbers at me, he had 22% ozone starts. He wasn't given many opportunities to provide scoring.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Now you have gone from being wrong to simply being purposefully disingenuous.  There are a dozen guys at or above his production levels, you are just picking right handed centres for no particular reason.

There is no reason to limit it to right handed centres at all, that is simply trying to make your argument.  We don't know who our 2nd and 4th line centres are going to be, so we don't know if they would both or neither be right handed.  The current other centres we have in the system for the bottom two lines in the absence of Sutter or a replacement that are most likely to play are right handed in Gagner and Gaudette.

We aren't going to go into the season with Sutter as our 2nd line centre, he is not going to be put with offensive wingers like Petterson.  The brass has pretty much said as much, that they need to find a guy to replace Hank and that Petterson will be playing the wing initially and not in that slot and needs to play with offensive players.  We will be signing or trading for someone to fill that slot.

We are talking about replacing the 3rd line centre spot.  Sutter will be the 3rd line centre in virtually every scenario except Benning trying really hard but failing to find a guy to play in the top 6 AND them deciding somehow that he is a better option on an offensive line than giving Petterson a try.  If that is the case, we have much bigger problems than our two top line centres being left handed.

Feeling a little uppity are we? sure, OK then having a mix of R and L shots doesn't matter in your scheme. Okie dokie. 

 

Assuming we wanted to replace the shot isn't a bad idea chief, but lets open it up: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2019/caphit/all/center

Oh look, still no one not named Tavares thats an upgrade. 

 

We don't need to replace our 3rd line C, we have a good one. Your idea assumes that we can just go out and pick a 3C as good as Sutter off a tree somewhere, and that makes you look like you really don't know what you're talking about. But please carry on. 

 

 

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Feeling a little uppity are we? sure, OK then having a mix of R and L shots doesn't matter in your scheme. Okie dokie. 

 

Assuming we wanted to replace the shot isn't a bad idea chief, but lets open it up: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2019/caphit/all/center

Oh look, still no one not named Tavares thats an upgrade. 

 

We don't need to replace our 3rd line C, we have a good one. Your idea assumes that we can just go out and pick a 3C as good as Sutter off a tree somewhere, and that makes you look like you really don't know what you're talking about. But please carry on. 

 

 

Well you are the uppity one arguing and repeatedly being shown to be wrong... and then trying to move into another point where you are wrong again.

You are just making random stuff up now because your panties are in a knot from someone pointing out the massive factual flaws in your thinking.

-  I didn't say that not having a mix of R and L hand centres didn't matter, as a matter of fact I went through pains to outline how we will already have several R hand centres on our roster, and are almost certainly getting another centre for the 2nd line to replace Hank either through signing or trade.... and we have no idea if he will be left or right handed.  Using your logic you are the one who doesn't care about left and right handed.  If we signed Bozak for the 2nd line (or traded/signed any other right handed centre), that would give us 3 R (with Gaudette as 4th line) and one L.  We would additionally have an extra R handed centre in Gagner to take draws on his strong side.... that would be terribly unbalanced in the opposite way.  The handedness of our centres is not a prime factor right now in building the roster since we don't know who will be filling it out.

-  If you think that Sutter is the 2nd best centre behind Tavares if you slotted him into the UFA centre list... then there is literally nothing that can be said to bring you to reality.  It is laughable and insane.

-  We can certainly find a good 3rd line centre if we are offering the salary we are paying Sutter.  More importantly and what I have repeatedly said, is that we actually need to find a 2nd line centre.  The 3rd line slot can be filled in either via signing or with someone in our organization until Petterson shows he can slot in the middle. 

[Pete M]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

great theory. I'm talking about reality. There is no one similar that we could get and not give up other assets. We'd end up in a zero sum situation. Unless the idea is to tank and not be competitive. 

We haven't been competitive the last 3 years with Sutter and the Sedins on the team. No big loss here. Pick up an asset and find a 3rd line center to fill his spot.

He definitely is injury prone, which does not help the team

[kingofsurrey]

12 minutes ago, Pete M said:

We haven't been competitive the last 3 years with Sutter and the Sedins on the team. No big loss here. Pick up an asset and find a 3rd line center to fill his spot.

He definitely is injury prone, which does not help the team

I love  it when a knowledgeable hockey fan joins the discussion.....

[ohmy]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Players are only as good as their last season

 

sutter last year was pretty bad 

 

 

Interesting, how did you come to that conclusion? I thought he played quite well actually. Played some of the toughest minutes, was great on the draw, and finished a +8 on a pretty bad team. What more do you expect of him? 

[kingofsurrey]

6 minutes ago, ohmy said:

Interesting, how did you come to that conclusion? I thought he played quite well actually. Played some of the toughest minutes, was great on the draw, and finished a +8 on a pretty bad team. What more do you expect of him? 

17 pts in the first 51 games when the season had meaning....   thats weak .

 

9 pts in the last 10 games  when the season was over.....

 

Sutter had a crummy season and is 29 yrs old.....

 

4.4 mil cap hit...  

[ohmy]

6 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

17 pts in the first 51 games when the season had meaning....   thats weak .

 

9 pts in the last 10 games  when the season was over.....

 

Sutter had a crummy season and is 29 yrs old.....

Your just twisting opinion to fit your story. I can do that to. He had a groin and upper body injury early in the season which probably lead to his 2 goals and 6 points in 23 games. He had 9 goals and 20 points in the other 38. That is good production for his role. Now if your stance is he gets injured to often I can buy that argument but it is fact that he is a very good player and didnt have a bad season. 

[billabong]

Sutter is probably a mil overpaid but we need him

 

in a checking role he’s effective, in a offensive role he’s dreadful 

 

Until we see him in the playoffs, we won’t see his best hockey 

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, billabong said:

Sutter is probably a mil overpaid but we need him

 

in a checking role he’s effective, in a offensive role he’s dreadful 

 

Until we see him in the playoffs, we won’t see his best hockey 

Sadly by the time the canucks make the playoffs.  Sutter will be using his seniors discount for dinner at dennys.  

[Pete M]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

I love  it when a knowledgeable hockey fan joins the discussion.....

Facts speak louder than words...however, some don't pay attention to fact and write their own story.

 

Sutter is a good 3rd line center when healthy, but he is replaceable.

[kingofsurrey]

25 minutes ago, Pete M said:

Facts speak louder than words...however, some don't pay attention to fact and write their own story.

 

Sutter is a good 3rd line center when healthy, but he is replaceable.

Especially if you can move him for multiple younger appreciating assets and then replace him with a UFA ....

[higgyfan]

19 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Especially if you can move him for multiple younger appreciating assets and then replace him with a UFA ....

I would think that if Sutter gets that return in a tread, then he's worth a lot more than what you have been suggesting, kos.

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Well you are the uppity one arguing and repeatedly being shown to be wrong... and then trying to move into another point where you are wrong again.

You are just making random stuff up now because your panties are in a knot from someone pointing out the massive factual flaws in your thinking.

-  I didn't say that not having a mix of R and L hand centres didn't matter, as a matter of fact I went through pains to outline how we will already have several R hand centres on our roster, and are almost certainly getting another centre for the 2nd line to replace Hank either through signing or trade.... and we have no idea if he will be left or right handed.  Using your logic you are the one who doesn't care about left and right handed.  If we signed Bozak for the 2nd line (or traded/signed any other right handed centre), that would give us 3 R (with Gaudette as 4th line) and one L.  We would additionally have an extra R handed centre in Gagner to take draws on his strong side.... that would be terribly unbalanced in the opposite way.  The handedness of our centres is not a prime factor right now in building the roster since we don't know who will be filling it out.

-  If you think that Sutter is the 2nd best centre behind Tavares if you slotted him into the UFA centre list... then there is literally nothing that can be said to bring you to reality.  It is laughable and insane.

-  We can certainly find a good 3rd line centre if we are offering the salary we are paying Sutter.  More importantly and what I have repeatedly said, is that we actually need to find a 2nd line centre.  The 3rd line slot can be filled in either via signing or with someone in our organization until Petterson shows he can slot in the middle. 

you haven't shown anything "to be wrong" there internet hero. You seem willing to throw away a solid 3C for a bunch of maybe's. Good thing you're not a GM. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

We haven't been competitive the last 3 years with Sutter and the Sedins on the team. No big loss here. Pick up an asset and find a 3rd line center to fill his spot.

He definitely is injury prone, which does not help the team

much easier said than done tho. If it were that easy 4 teams in the west wouldn't have been asking for him. Sutter took on a heavy defensive role and has done a great job. A lot of guys would have been po'd with being given 80% d-zone starts, but he took it on and did really well. He is not as easy to replace as people think, imo anyway. 

[The Great Canucks]

5 hours ago, TimberWolf said:

Take note of what?

 

What were the offers? For all we know the four teams were hoping to get benning to give up a pick by shedding the Sutter contract. Maybe it was one for one garbage deals that were even worse and teams were hoping to hose us further

 

you have no idea so until we know what the offers were, there is nothing to take note of and if the offers were picks in the second round then take note, Benning is terrible (but don't worry, I doubt it was that. Was probably no name players for ours)

Take note of the fact that other teams actually do want Sutter playing for them, contrary to what some of you like to tell us about what a bum Sutter is and no one wants him.

[Gurn]

33 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Especially if you can move him for multiple younger appreciating assets and then replace him with a UFA ....

If you could just replace him with a ufa, why would any team trade for him and instead just sign a ufa of their own?

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said:

Take note of the fact that other teams actually do want Sutter playing for them, contrary to what some of you like to tell us about what a bum Sutter is and no one wants him.

bingo. You could double his o-zone starts and you'd still only be at 40% and get 15-20 goals, a solid face-off guy and a matchup player. Makes me wonder what people are watching sometimes when they downplay Sutter as some kind of easily replaceable plug. 

[The Great Canucks]

2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

I love  it when a knowledgeable hockey fan joins the discussion.....

Where are these knowledgeable fans you speak of? It sure as hell isn't you or your little buddies who constantly trash Sutter.