2019 NHL Entry Draft in Vancouver, BC

[theo5789]

4 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

On that team with the size they had Bieksa not only played bigger than he was he was tough as nails. I dont see the same attitude from a Hutton, Stecher, Hughes, Pouliot Edler, Tanev. That edge is missing so we definitely need to bulk up on D.

This just says to me that we need to get more edge to the team rather than size. There are plenty of big guys that do not play to their size at the NHL level also. Guys with edge can be found in the later rounds (Bieksa was a 5th round pick). We need to look for high end (top 6 forward/top 4 dman potential) with our first rounder regardless of size (obviously if you can add the best guy available who happens to be a guy with size and edge, then it'll be perfect).

 

Woo may be our next Bieksa though.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, kenhodgejr said:

Im really getting sold on Broberg if he is available at 10. He has Mcdavid like game changing speed. He has elite speed and makes power moves that other players cannot do. 

 

If we are looking to build a new defensive group a guy like this would be a great guy to have. A lot of people talk about his lack of IQ and I say that completely incorrect. 

 

People see Jake Virtanen because he has a similar power speed skating style but currently lacks the ability to finish every rush like Pettersson might. First of all I don't think Virtanen has a low IQ. I think his IQ is fine its his processing ability that is slower especially when he and the game are moving so fast. I think Broberg has good IQ, I think his processing of the game is better than jakes but he is still young and is working on his coordination with the puck at high speeds. I predict his puck work will improve and his ability to make successful plays at high speeds will improve allowing him to become an elite defence man in the league. Might take him a few years to get his game together but I see a Victor Hedman in him. 

 

 

IMO, the ability to process the game/read plays/slow the game down is how I define hockey IQ. I'm not sure it's something that can be taught, but natural instincts could be developed with enough repetition. With the expectation for players to make the jump sooner than later, it doesn't give a lot of time for those with low IQ to catch up.

 

With that said, I'm a firm believer of Virtanen because of the tools he has, but I can see why Green is developing him the way he is in giving him more of a defined role and making him into a usable NHL player first and hopefully having the rest of the game click in eventually. Basically Green has bought him more time to grow.

 

If the scouting is true that Broberg is more like Virtanen, then he might have to head down the same path. However as a dman, it is much harder to to do this with more minutes expected, so you would need a solid d-core that can buy him that time (shelter) to develop at the NHL or he will have to put in his time at the AHL level (likely 2-4 years).

 

I'm not for or against Broberg, but hopefully he is indeed the BPA (which doesn't mean who makes the NHL the fastest) at our pick if we do take him.

[JeremyCuddles]

11 minutes ago, Stamkos said:

I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again. Part of the reason Seider is so low is because of a lack of scouting. It’s a similar situation to Petey, who was projected from 7-15

Seider is projected at 20-25 on most lists I have seen, lists from as late as April, the most recent list is Button's list that he did like a week ago and that has him going 25. Nobody but Canuck fans have Seider at 10. All the mocks I see had Petey going as late as 12. And clearly Benning knew more because dropping below the Vegas pick was too risky for him. So it's not really a Pettersson situation. He only seems off the board cause so many of us wanted Vilardi or Glass. 

 

Then we go into the logistics of Petey's weight. There was talk at the draft that if he were 10-15 pounds heavier he'd have likely been a consensus top 5 pick or even 1st overall. Seider is very likely at or near his NHL playing weight and still nearly none of the experts have him in the late teens let alone around 10. I just don't see the Seider/Petey comparison holding much weight. Is he under scouted? Maybe, but to the point where we should take him 10-15 spots ahead of where he is expected to go? I dunno about that. Even if management thinks he's better than anything we could get at 10 they should still trade down to get him instead of drafting him at 10.

[Smashian Kassian]

5 hours ago, Bilbro Baggins said:

In a way Broberg reminds me of Carlo. Big body with all the tools but a lot of fear over taking him due to IQ. Lots of fans look silly now as Carlo is a great player for the Bruins.  The way I see it, the concerns over Broberg come after he gets past the opponents blue line.  If he can wheel the puck in to the zone, that alone is something the canucks sorely lack

I thought the knock on Carlo was skating & not having alot of offense? No doubt thats turned into a tremendous 2nd round pick for the Bruins.

 

With his skating, Broberg is more intriguing than Carlo was. 

[18W-40C-6W]

20 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Seider is projected at 20-25 on most lists I have seen, lists from as late as April, the most recent list is Button's list that he did like a week ago and that has him going 25. Nobody but Canuck fans have Seider at 10. All the mocks I see had Petey going as late as 12. And clearly Benning knew more because dropping below the Vegas pick was too risky for him. So it's not really a Pettersson situation. He only seems off the board cause so many of us wanted Vilardi or Glass. 

 

Then we go into the logistics of Petey's weight. There was talk at the draft that if he were 10-15 pounds heavier he'd have likely been a consensus top 5 pick or even 1st overall. Seider is very likely at or near his NHL playing weight and still nearly none of the experts have him in the late teens let alone around 10. I just don't see the Seider/Petey comparison holding much weight. Is he under scouted? Maybe, but to the point where we should take him 10-15 spots ahead of where he is expected to go? I dunno about that. Even if management thinks he's better than anything we could get at 10 they should still trade down to get him instead of drafting him at 10.

The point he’s making (and I) is the similarity to Petey (and other European players ) is that they tend to have a “discount” applied to them because a) scouts have not seen them enough b) there’s an inherent bias in nhl scouting that the quality of leagues is OHL, WHL, US, QMJHL, Europe. Unless a player is SO much better in Europe, only then does he get the credit he deserves, Ovie, Malkin, etc.

 

Every year there are players from Europe ranked well below their actual talent because of that North American bias in the rankings. 

 

So the comparison to Petey was that his talent should have had him much higher, same with Pasternak for instance and many others.  No one is suggesting he’s as elite as Petey, just that his ranking has materially undervalued him due to where he plays and that “bias”.

 

With his tools he legitimately could become the best dman in the draft if developed properly. There are no weaknesses in his game. Does he have Byram’s offense? No, but as an all around dman he could be and will likely be better. 

 

Even the NHLers who played with him on Team Germany were saying great things. 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[JeremyCuddles]

Just now, 18W-40C-6W said:

The point he’s making (and I) is the similarity to Petey (and other European players ) is that they tend to have a “discount” applied to them because a) scouts have not seen them enough b) there’s an inherent bias in nhl scouting that the quality of leagues is OHL, WHC, US, QMJHL, Europe. 

 

Every year there are players from Europe ranked well below their actual talent because of that North American bias in the rankings. 

 

So so the comparison to Petey was that his talent should have had him much higher, same with Pasternak for instance and many others.  No one is suggesting he’s as elite as Petey, just that his ranking has materially undervalued him due to where he plays and that “bias”.

 

With his tools he legitimately could become the best dman in the draft if developed properly. There are no weaknesses in his game. Does he have Byram’s offends? No, but as an all around dman he could be and will likely be better. 

 

Even the NHLers who played with him on Team Germany were saying great things. 

 

 

GMs don't really have this bias that the media and fans do. That's why there are so many "surprise" picks every year. When I read Kotkaniemi's scouting report last year I thought "this man is top 5-10 talent. If he's around at our pick I want him. Fans didn't even have him in the early to mid teens.That's why there are so many media guys that say "I don't think Podkolzin is a top 10 guy, but I could see Chicago taking him". Why? Cause they do their due diligence.

 

And I already mentioned that Petey would have went higher if not for his weight. It wasn't that he was under scouted or European or whatever, it's that he was a stick figure at his draft. Dude was 6'3 160. If he's 170-175 he's top 5. People were saying that AT his draft. I think Bob McKenzie even said a scout would have had Pettersson number one overall if he were 15 pounds heavier.

[18W-40C-6W]

3 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

GMs don't really have this bias that the media and fans do. That's why there are so many "surprise" picks every year. When I read Kotkaniemi's scouting report last year I thought "this man is top 5-10 talent. If he's around at our pick I want him. Fans didn't even have him in the early to mid teens.That's why there are so many media guys that say "I don't think Podkolzin is a top 10 guy, but I could see Chicago taking him". Why? Cause they do their due diligence.

 

And I already mentioned that Petey would have went higher if not for his weight. It wasn't that he was under scouted or European or whatever, it's that he was a stick figure at his draft. Dude was 6'3 160. If he's 170-175 he's top 5. People were saying that AT his draft. I think Bob McKenzie even said a scout would have had Pettersson number one overall if he were 15 pounds heavier.

If you dont think GMs and scouting staffs have that bias, why are so many european stars in the NHL not 1-4th overall picks. Go look at the drafts guy. I could care less what fans think, fans don't make the picks that provided the proof behind our assertion

 

Petey would have gone higher other than his weight, yet a slow 5/'7'' smurf who can score bushel fulls from NA is moving up the lists fast (Caulfield). If was in europe do you really think he'd be getting the same recognition?

Edited May 27, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[Nucker 67]

Watching Pettersson last year, he was phenomenal, considering his age and weight, and being a first year player in NA. Still, he was hounded and had less and less time and space as the season wore on. He was even injured twice, which could've turned out much worse. Pettersson is a tough kid though, and he battles through it. He's also a really smart kid, and he'll figure out how to beat his opponents next season. Pettersson is 6'2", so he has good size (just needs to fill in a bit, which he will do)

 

Caufield is a different player altogether. He's slower than Pettersson, he's small at 5'7", but also underweight. He's had great success playing next to Hughes as a kid, but he'll need to figure out how to continue scoring at a torrid pace without Hughes - as the competition gets tougher. Good luck with that. When I watched the U18, I was blown away by Caufield's scoring, but I think it was somewhat of an illusion. Looking forward to watching Caufield develop and see where he gets to. If he makes the NHL and if he can withstand how punishing it is, while producing.

 

I keep thinking playoffs, and how will these kids do if they ever get to the NHL playoffs. The bigger skilled players (Podkolzin, Dach, Cozens, Boldy, Lavoie) all seem to be future playoff performers to me. They're all so smart and have size/speed (although, Boldy still needs improvement with his speed). It's a very long, grueling season.

 

 

[mikeyman109]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

This just says to me that we need to get more edge to the team rather than size. There are plenty of big guys that do not play to their size at the NHL level also. Guys with edge can be found in the later rounds (Bieksa was a 5th round pick). We need to look for high end (top 6 forward/top 4 dman potential) with our first rounder regardless of size (obviously if you can add the best guy available who happens to be a guy with size and edge, then it'll be perfect).

 

Woo may be our next Bieksa though.

Bolded would be taken out of context. If you were only focused in on what i said about Bieksa than yes we would need more edge than size. My Point about everyone else in that thread was that size with skill outperforms skill without size. The D that went to the Cup Finals in 94 and 2011 were bigger, meaner and stronger than we are icing now and as much as the game has changed its still an advantage. Its about survival in the playoffs. Again my point is that a balance to the smaller players is still needed.we cannot play Stecher Hughes, Hutton and Biega against the big western forwards and expect to be successful.

I agree we need top 6 forwards and top 4 D men still. Where we pick which would depend on who is left when we pick, IMHO

[J.I.A.H.N]

17 hours ago, Odd. said:

Would anyone be pissed if we took Lavoie at 10? I wouldn't. Blake Wheeler potential

More pissed off if we did not trade down 4 or 5 spots.....

 

Personally I like him, in the 16 to 18 spot

 

Newhook, Caufield, York, Seider, Broberg, Soderstrom, Lavoie, Harley, even Podkolzin, Suzuki, and probably a couple others

 

not in any order, but for various reasons, I sort of see them all together, except Podkolzin which is plain and simply Russian and may fall out of the top 10

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

The point he’s making (and I) is the similarity to Petey (and other European players ) is that they tend to have a “discount” applied to them because a) scouts have not seen them enough b) there’s an inherent bias in nhl scouting that the quality of leagues is OHL, WHL, US, QMJHL, Europe. Unless a player is SO much better in Europe, only then does he get the credit he deserves, Ovie, Malkin, etc.

 

Every year there are players from Europe ranked well below their actual talent because of that North American bias in the rankings. 

 

So the comparison to Petey was that his talent should have had him much higher, same with Pasternak for instance and many others.  No one is suggesting he’s as elite as Petey, just that his ranking has materially undervalued him due to where he plays and that “bias”.

 

With his tools he legitimately could become the best dman in the draft if developed properly. There are no weaknesses in his game. Does he have Byram’s offense? No, but as an all around dman he could be and will likely be better. 

 

Even the NHLers who played with him on Team Germany were saying great things. 

 

 

Here  is a question......

 

How many LHD can play RHD ?

 

I think not many, or at least not many well

 

So, I am thinking Seider may just be the 1st or 2nd best RHD in the draft

 

This is why I think McAvoy did not get drafted earlier...….but was still a very good RHD.....look what happened there.

 

As to Seider's playing weight...…..he is 17/18 and 200 ish pounds, I say coming from Strong German blood, he could top 220 easily, when he is 24/25/26

 

I guess we will see...…..but if Benning has a wish list of say 3 guys at the 16/17 pick......then Seider will be one of them and he should trade down to there if possible

 

I like the kid.....

 

I want Benning to make a trade...……..2021 1st for 2019 1st + David Clarkson, and even add to it if necessary …..Vegas's is in Cap hell...….the picks are pretty even

[smithers joe]

i want a scorer for bo’s line, so we can have that secondary scoring. petey’s line needs some grit with skill.  a top line d man if woo, isn’t going to be that. draft, trade and sign, at least the potential to play these spots. but not for crazy money. stick to the rebuild. 

[Nucker 67]

I would be really happy with Lavoie. He has size, leadership qualities, speed, great shot, can handle the puck, protects well, plays C and wing, etc. Say the Canucks sign Ferland as a UFA, and in a couple of years:

 

Ferland - Pettersson - Lavoie

 

I know he's ranked around 15-20 or so, but so what?  I believe Pettersson was ranked around #12-14 last year. So....

 

 

 

[aGENT]

I wonder if we could get COL's 16th OA pick? Not sure what to send them though as their main need is at 2C which is both an over payment for 16th OA..and they can't have Horvat...lol

 

Our 2nd plus...?

Edited May 27, 2019 by aGENT

[cyoung]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I wonder if we could get COL's 16th OA pick? Not sure what to send them though as their main need is at 2C which is both an over payment for 16th OA..and they can't have Horvat...lol

Package that include Gaudette? Honestly though, I don't like the thought of adding an additional first at this point in our rebuild. Would of made more sense last year or the year before..

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, cyoung said:

Package that include Gaudette? Honestly though, I don't like the thought of adding an additional first at this point in our rebuild. Would of made more sense last year or the year before..

I could see adding an additional first if it, combined with our 10 OA could get us Jack Hughes.  If Kakko goes first, what would we need to add to 10 + 8 (take Lucic to get 8, and add more if needed) to move up to two?

Edited May 27, 2019 by Alflives

[Whorvat]

7 minutes ago, cyoung said:

Package that include Gaudette? Honestly though, I don't like the thought of adding an additional first at this point in our rebuild. Would of made more sense last year or the year before..

I'd love to get another 1st in any year, regardless of what point of any build we're in.. not at the cost of Gaudette though.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, cyoung said:

Package that include Gaudette? Honestly though, I don't like the thought of adding an additional first at this point in our rebuild. Would of made more sense last year or the year before..

COL is two'ish years ahead of us in rebuilding, just made the playoffs and they currently have two 1sts (one of which I'd like!)... doubt they're upset about it 

 

Not sure why it wouldn't make sense....

[Bure_Pavel]

20 minutes ago, Whorvat said:

I'd love to get another 1st in any year, regardless of what point of any build we're in.. not at the cost of Gaudette though.

Would likely have to include Gaudette or Virtanen to get another mid 1st round pick.  

[Nucker 67]

20 minutes ago, Whorvat said:

I'd love to get another 1st in any year, regardless of what point of any build we're in.. not at the cost of Gaudette though.

Gaudette was a great 5th rounder, but if he fetches the Canucks an extra 1st, I hope they go for it. Canucks have Madden developing, who could also become the #3C.