2019 NHL Entry Draft in Vancouver, BC

[D-Money]

Am I the only one who looks at all these US National Development team players with a little trepidation? I wonder if Jack Hughes (and maybe Alex Turcotte) are even better than anyone expects, and a lot of the overwhelming success the others are getting is mostly from who they are playing with.

 

Last year it was Wahlstrom who was drafted quite high, and had a disappointing D+1 years - when he didn't have Hughes to feed him anymore. I bet a few of Caufield, York, Boldy, Zegras, etc. will end up going higher than guys who end up being superior players.

 

So personally, when the USDP guys are ranked similarly to the WHL and Euro guys, I lean to the latter.

Edited June 13, 2019 by D-Money

[3rdGenCanuck]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

Am I the only one who looks at all these US National Development team players with a little trepidation? I wonder if Jack Hughes (and maybe Alex Turcotte) are even better than anyone expects, and a lot of the overwhelming success the others are getting is mostly from who they are playing with.

 

Last year it was Wahlstrom and Farabee, both of whom were drafted quite high, and had disappointing D+1 years - when they didn't have Hughes to feed them anymore. I bet a few of Caufield, York, Boldy, Zegras, etc. will end up going higher than guys who end up being superior players.

 

So personally, when the USDP guys are ranked similarly to the WHL and Euro guys, I lean to the latter.

In what world did Farabee have a disappointing D+1 season?

[D-Money]

3 minutes ago, 3rdGenCanuck said:

In what world did Farabee have a disappointing D+1 season?

Sorry, I meant to contrast Wahlstrom and Farabee going in, and then just got lost in my own post. That's what I get for posting before my 2nd coffee.

 

Farabee would be a good example of the two. However, I seem to remember Philly taking him at 14 as considered a bit of a reach. Wahlstrom had much higher numbers of the two, and was the higher ranked prospect at pretty much every source. But it seems in retrospect that a lot of it was Hughes.

[R3aL]

7 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Sorry If I didn't pick myself a pair of rose colored glasses. Yes Gaudette is improving, and he has graduated from the AHL. Too good? I wouldn't go that far, but definetly he can play in the bigs. He's shown flashes that he is a big league player, but do you see him supplanting Petterson, or Horvat anytime soon? Do you see him have 30 - 40 goal potential? Im being realistic with Gaudette, the fact that hes probably going to be an every night player is already a win from being a 5th rounder. He's probably a 20 goal scorer down the line, if he scores more, thats great, but from what I've seen, I don't see it yet.

 

Would I trade him for a lottery pick like a late first rounder? Absolutely. Those prospects are 1st rounders for a reason, ie: they have higher ceilings, I'll take a chance with a player that potentially be a superstar. What pick was Brock Boeser again? EXACTLY. Im not saying that the pick is going to be a guaranteed star or even a very good player, but they're pedigree says they have a better chance to be one. As much you, me and others think we know better than the scouts, the sad reality is we don't, If Gaudette was going to be a superstar he could've gotten a lot higher than where he was picked. If he turns out to be one, great, but theres a reason why he was drafted late.

 

I like Gaudette and he is a solid player, Im not sure he's all star calibre from what Ive seen at least, but thats already a compliment to him that already theres a debate that he's already worth a 1st rounder, at least with us, coming from being picked in the 5th round? Thats pretty damn good. Add to the fact theres a similar player down the pipeline (Madden), and our need for young D-men, I'll take the late 1st rounder.

 

I'll pose this question to you, what if Gaudette is just a regular NHLer thats just a 10-15 goal guy, thats has a Markus Granlund esque career, would you regret not taking that late first rounder? You can't also just assume that Gaudette is going to be progressing leaps and bounds

Thanks for sharing your logic. 

 

A little rude the first line about the rose coloured glasses.

 

Gaudette has accomplished a lot to this point to look at his potential optimistically. To cap that because of his draft position is really silly.

 

you want to trade him because he was a 5th rounder and you think his potential is a 15/20 goal 3C. And that is worth the risk of trading for a 17/18 year old draft pick —> defensive prospect. 

 

See after players are drsfted their  positional draft pedigree means less and less. Gaudette is at the stage now where it means nothing. He is found money. If he is a 20 goal scorer who impacts games in a positive way on a nightly basis and has upside of more with the ability to slot into the top 6 when we have injuries, or a staple on the second PP unit  this is a valuable player to have.

 

now if there is a trade for a young dman further ahead in his development than an unproven draft pick I would consider trading Gaudette. Like you said especially with madden looking good and still having sutter and beagle in the roster.

 

but no I would not trade Gaudette at this draft for late round pick And spin the wheel on a prospect maybe providing more value 2-5 years from now than Gaudette will for sure immediately. I am not assuming Gaudette is going to progress leaps and bounds, he has steadily developed his entire career progressing at a linear pace year after year. Right now it is safe to assume he will continue improving and we have not seen his best yet for sure. 

 

He hasnt done anything to make me think otherwise. And he showed some flashes in the NHL, forget what game it was but he tie dragged a dman and roofed it. Like he was in college. The kid is adjusting to the timing of the league (the speed), and he needs to be stronger to confidently play his style. 

 

Since your a gambling man it sounds like. Pre draft pick a prospective trade partner that has a late pick. Pick a prospective d prospect available and let’s see how there careers go? Maybe you’ll be right but in my opinion it’s a pretty big gamble with more exposure to downside than to upside.

[groovy]

1 hour ago, Off_The_Schneid! said:

A lot of talk about Poldkozin 

however if he slides a bit I don’t think he makes it past Edmonton 

 

he was ranked 3rd overall all year and Holland has had success with Russians 

most likely BPA at 8th as well

I would expect some serious Yakupov gag reflex.

[R3aL]

9 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Sorry, I meant to contrast Wahlstrom and Farabee going in, and then just got lost in my own post. That's what I get for posting before my 2nd coffee.

 

Farabee would be a good example of the two. However, I seem to remember Philly taking him at 14 as considered a bit of a reach. Wahlstrom had much higher numbers of the two, and was the higher ranked prospect at pretty much every source. But it seems in retrospect that a lot of it was Hughes.

Farabee at 14 wasn’t a reach.

 

he was a top 15 prospect for sure and some were even higher on him.

 

hes a very good winger prospect. PPG in college first year is great too.

 

wahkstrom had an issue with his college staff or teams mates or something tried to leave the season early but couldn’t and he didn’t have the best year, but finishing in the AHL he looked good. 3 pts in 5 regular season games and 4 pts in 5 playoff games. Kids a goal scorer

 

Both are still high end prospects so I’m not sure exactly what you mean about them.

[R3aL]

1 minute ago, groovy said:

I would expect some serious Yakupov gag reflex.

Don’t think yak will influence Edmonton’s decision. New sheriff in town, players aren’t comparable asides from Russian heritage.

 

if he’s the bpa on their board and available he’ll be drafted.

 

i hope he gets taken before our pick though.

 

Podkolzin + Broberg are two guys I hope get taken before our selection.

[R3aL]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

And likely a very good fit on Petey/Boeser's wing.

Krebs style would compliment both Petey or Horvat for sure

[vannuck59]

After watching the playoffs I would say the best big defenseman available to many small D and you wont win the same as last year.  

[D-Money]

6 minutes ago, R3aL said:

Farabee at 14 wasn’t a reach.

 

he was a top 15 prospect for sure and some were even higher on him.

 

hes a very good winger prospect. PPG in college first year is great too.

 

wahkstrom had an issue with his college staff or teams mates or something tried to leave the season early but couldn’t and he didn’t have the best year, but finishing in the AHL he looked good. 3 pts in 5 regular season games and 4 pts in 5 playoff games. Kids a goal scorer

 

Both are still high end prospects so I’m not sure exactly what you mean about them.

Guess we'll see. I just have difficulty saying for sure that the complimentary guys on the USDP team can drive play as effectively as the top-ranked WHL forwards (who are already demonstrating that they don't need help - particularly Dach).

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Guess we'll see. I just have difficulty saying for sure that the complimentary guys on the USDP team can drive play as effectively as the top-ranked WHL forwards (who are already demonstrating that they don't need help - particularly Dach).

If my personal rankings are any indication () you won't have to worry much about them. I'm guessing we're picking between Dach, Boldy, Cozens and whichever D the Canucks have ranked highest if we stay at 10. So you'll likely only have Boldy to 'worry'about  

[3rdGenCanuck]

12 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Sorry, I meant to contrast Wahlstrom and Farabee going in, and then just got lost in my own post. That's what I get for posting before my 2nd coffee.

 

Farabee would be a good example of the two. However, I seem to remember Philly taking him at 14 as considered a bit of a reach. Wahlstrom had much higher numbers of the two, and was the higher ranked prospect at pretty much every source. But it seems in retrospect that a lot of it was Hughes.

Haha no worries man! That makes sense. You are right about Wahlstrom having the better draft numbers and being the higher ranked prospect by most sources. However, the gap between them was much smaller than you are implying. In their draft years on the U18 USDP Wahlstrom put up 62gp 48g 46a 94p and Farabee put up 62gp 33g 43a 76p (Jack Hughes had 36gp 27g 41a 68p). In terms of rankings, Wahlstrom usually found himself just inside the top 10 while Farabee found himself just outside it. Farabee was always considered the more complete player and had the intangibles going for him, he was actually the captain of the U18 team that year. The big draw to Wahlstrom was always his finishing ability. Similar to Caufield this year, Wahlstrom went wire to wire having the highest rated shot and being considered the best pure goal scorer in the class. The hits against Wahlstrom were always his lack of foot speed and his questionable compete level.

 

I know a ton of people on these forums were very high on Wahlstrom and wanted him at 7. I wasn't very high on him for the reasons stated above, and I wasn't shocked to see him have a bit of a disappointing at BC. That being said, Wahlstrom had an excellent (albeit short) stint in the AHL after leaving BC and could still return good value on the #11 pick. 

 

To relate it back to this years draft, it is easy to say all these guys have have inflated numbers and only look good because they're playing with Hughes. But this years USNDTP is the best of all time, and Hughes isn't the reason for that. The program has seen superstar level players in the past (Kane, Eichel, Matthews), but this '01 class is the best ever because there are so many other players that are stars in their own right and don't need to rely on that superstar to carry the play. Hughes, Turcotte, Zegras, Caufield, Boldy were all dominant before they got together on this team. And the 4 outside of Hughes have proved they are still that when Hughes has been out of the lineup. I would be pumped with any of those guys at #10. Normally at this time of the year I have a list of 2 or 3 guys I really want the Canucks to take in the first round. This year that list is like 10 deep. I cannot wait for next Friday!!!

[Bure_Pavel]

23 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

After watching the playoffs I would say the best big defenseman available to many small D and you wont win the same as last year.  

Blues Dmen did a great job last night containing Boston and winning board battles.

[higgyfan]

9 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

sorry for sounding harsh... my post is about my thoughts of Podkolzin. 

 

Where are highlights from this season. Oh wait he doesn’t have any. One good tournament from last year against boys which is the source of all 4 of his highlights.

 

i wouldn’t be surprised if Podkolzin isn’t drafted in the top 20. I don’t see any GMs having him as there 1st choice. He’s more like their 3rd or 4th choice. Once he’s still not drafted by #12 the Dman will start being drafted before him.

Even the Goalie Knight will probably be drafted ahead of Podkolzin IMO.

 

i really really hope he is drafted top 9 so it opens up another player at 10.

But unfortunately I’m pretty sure he won’t be.

 

 

The following link provides some context into the numbers Pod put up this year, which seem lacking due to his playing in 3 different leagues (2 of which were adult), so the sample size makes it difficult to get a proper read on his abilities.  Whenever he played in international tournaments against players in his age group, he excelled.  

 

This link will explain the circumstances around the lower numbers and to why pro scouts believe Pod is projecting as such a high pick.

https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-deep-dive-vasili-podkolzin/

 

There are some awesome game highlights on the web.  The first thing I notice about him is his great stick handling at blazing speed.  He blows by the opposition and has a tremendous shot. 

 

There's a reason this kid has sat in most scouts top 3 for the past two years.  I think this guy would elevate Bo's line into a #1 (point wise) and will be doing so in a couple of years.

[higgyfan]

dbl post

Edited June 13, 2019 by higgyfan

[higgyfan]

ffs

Edited June 13, 2019 by higgyfan

[R3aL]

50 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Guess we'll see. I just have difficulty saying for sure that the complimentary guys on the USDP team can drive play as effectively as the top-ranked WHL forwards (who are already demonstrating that they don't need help - particularly Dach).

It’s tough - sometimes doing it on your own is better sometimes playing with high end players is better. There’s examples of both failing and succeeding so hard to judge what is better you know.

 

I get what you are saying though 

Edited June 13, 2019 by R3aL

[18W-40C-6W]

10 hours ago, J-P said:

Not saying Bo is a 3C, just that he could be a 2-3C on a deep contender  (think Pittsburgh). 

 

It would work like this: 1-3C plays 16-20 mins a night depending on matchups, if offense or defense needed etc. 

 

This season Gaudette played 11 mins average (as a “3C”) and Beagle about 15 mins, so imagine the difference...

 

But agree that Bo’s at least a 2C on pretty much every team in the league and that Zegras on the wing would also be an option. 

Bo’s talent would be wasted on the third line. He’s a workhorse and is bordering on becoming Bergeron 2.0 if he can up his defensive game slightly (which is already great just not selke level). A guy who has 70 pt or more talent (which he’s shown given his ppg and trajectory) plus great everywhere else should be in your top 6 and seeing as much ice as possible. I know you’re not saying he’s a 3c, but I’m saying you never put him there because he’s just too good to be there.

[HockeyHarry]

21 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

The following link provides some context into the numbers Pod put up this year, which seem lacking due to his playing in 3 different leagues (2 of which were adult), so the sample size makes it difficult to get a proper read on his abilities.  Whenever he played in international tournaments against players in his age group, he excelled.  

 

This link will explain the circumstances around the lower numbers and to why pro scouts believe Pod is projecting as such a high pick.

https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-deep-dive-vasili-podkolzin/

 

There are some awesome game highlights on the web.  The first thing I notice about him is his great stick handling at blazing speed.  He blows by the opposition and has a tremendous shot. 

 

There's a reason this kid has sat in most scouts top 3 for the past two years.  I think this guy would elevate Bo's line into a #1 (point wise) and will be doing so in a couple of years.

I stand by what I posted earlier. I hope he is drafted top 9 so Canucks have one more better option at 10.

i really don’t see him as any GMs first choice. IMO GMs are making other plans that don’t include Podkolzin. The Team that will eventually pick him will be a team that didn’t think he would be there.

he is no teams Plan A.

[18W-40C-6W]

34 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

The following link provides some context into the numbers Pod put up this year, which seem lacking due to his playing in 3 different leagues (2 of which were adult), so the sample size makes it difficult to get a proper read on his abilities.  Whenever he played in international tournaments against players in his age group, he excelled.  

 

This link will explain the circumstances around the lower numbers and to why pro scouts believe Pod is projecting as such a high pick.

https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-deep-dive-vasili-podkolzin/

 

There are some awesome game highlights on the web.  The first thing I notice about him is his great stick handling at blazing speed.  He blows by the opposition and has a tremendous shot. 

 

There's a reason this kid has sat in most scouts top 3 for the past two years.  I think this guy would elevate Bo's line into a #1 (point wise) and will be doing so in a couple of years.

Take Podkolzin, we have a similar year to last, miss the playoffs just barely but improve, get another high pick, maybe even win the lottery! Then add in full time the next year, Tryamkin, OJ,Podz! Cup a cometh!

 

Ferland Petey Boeser

Podkolzin Bo Virtanen

Baer Guadette Pearson

Leivo Beagle Rousell

 

Elder Tryamkin

Hughes Tanev

Juolevi Stecher

Schenn/Woo

 

Demko

Edited June 13, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W