rekker Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Undrafted said: No, the rule is that if Zetterberg retires before his contract is finished, then the cap-recapture penalty applies. The only way the Wings are off the hook is if he plays through his entire contract. The 'test' part I mentioned is whether Zetterberg's back issues are allowed to be declared LTIR--that would blatant circumvention of the cap-recapture rule. If Zetts can't play because he physically can't then the Wings will be off the hook. Not very difficult for Zetts to show he can no longer play. Apparently his off ice preparation to be able to even practice is very involved. Pretty easy to take it from there to "I can't prep to play anymore". LTIR is where my bet lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrafted Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, rekker said: If Zetts can't play because he physically can't then the Wings will be off the hook. Not very difficult for Zetts to show he can no longer play. Apparently his off ice preparation to be able to even practice is very involved. Pretty easy to take it from there to "I can't prep to play anymore". LTIR is where my bet lies. I'm not a legal expert or anything, but I think if they allow DET to put Zetterberg on LTIR because of his back issues, then precedent will be set for Luongo to be put on LTIR if he's injured again and unable to come back from it. There's any number of excuses that can be used, if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Undrafted said: I'm not a legal expert or anything, but I think if they allow DET to put Zetterberg on LTIR because of his back issues, then precedent will be set for Luongo to be put on LTIR if he's injured again and unable to come back from it. There's any number of excuses that can be used, if that's the case. One would think. At the same time how can you determine when a pro athlete can continue to train at a top level or not. I would think it's pretty easy for an aged player to simply say I cannot train the way I need to. The pain is unbearable. The Hossa thing is somewhat similar. Although seeing as it was the Hawks I'm sure they hired the detective from Roger Rabbit to "investigate" it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrafted Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, rekker said: One would think. At the same time how can you determine when a pro athlete can continue to train at a top level or not. I would think it's pretty easy for an aged player to simply say I cannot train the way I need to. The pain is unbearable. The Hossa thing is somewhat similar. Although seeing as it was the Hawks I'm sure they hired the detective from Roger Rabbit to "investigate" it all. Well, this is kinda why I'm curious as to what both the league and the Wings will do regarding Zetterberg. It's not a clear-cut medical case like Pronger's concussion or Hossa's infection (for the record, I'm probably among the minority who's willing to take Hossa at face value with that). What makes Zetterberg's case of significant interest is that it's very much in that 'grey area' of the legal definition of what constitutes a "long-term injury" in relation to the salary-cap rules. And even though it's not connected to the 'cap-recapture' rule, Toronto's use of "Robidas Island" doesn't help clarify matters in that regard, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Undrafted said: Well, this is kinda why I'm curious as to what both the league and the Wings will do regarding Zetterberg. It's not a clear-cut medical case like Pronger's concussion or Hossa's infection (for the record, I'm probably among the minority who's willing to take Hossa at face value with that). What makes Zetterberg's case of significant interest is that it's very much in that 'grey area' of the legal definition of what constitutes a "long-term injury" in relation to the salary-cap rules. And even though it's not connected to the 'cap-recapture' rule, Toronto's use of "Robidas Island" doesn't help clarify matters in that regard, either. It may all come down to a legal battle the NHL has no desire to fight. Maybe easier for them to do some "due diligence" and then look the other way. There will be none of these backdiving contracts to worry about soon enough. Perhaps not worth the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrafted Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, rekker said: It may all come down to a legal battle the NHL has no desire to fight. Maybe easier for them to do some "due diligence" and then look the other way. There will be none of these backdiving contracts to worry about soon enough. Perhaps not worth the battle. Plus, the guy who pushed for the 'cap-recapture' penalty (Brian Burke as Leafs GM) isn't connected to a team or the league anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 32 minutes ago, Undrafted said: Well, this is kinda why I'm curious as to what both the league and the Wings will do regarding Zetterberg. It's not a clear-cut medical case like Pronger's concussion or Hossa's infection (for the record, I'm probably among the minority who's willing to take Hossa at face value with that). What makes Zetterberg's case of significant interest is that it's very much in that 'grey area' of the legal definition of what constitutes a "long-term injury" in relation to the salary-cap rules. And even though it's not connected to the 'cap-recapture' rule, Toronto's use of "Robidas Island" doesn't help clarify matters in that regard, either. all Zetterberg will need is for his doctor to declare him physically unfit to play hockey with a prognosis that he will not improve and he is eligible for ltir and then he becomes medically unable to play . just like pronger and hossa no difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrafted Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, coastal.view said: all Zetterberg will need is for his doctor to declare him physically unfit to play hockey with a prognosis that he will not improve and he is eligible for ltir and then he becomes medically unable to play . just like pronger and hossa no difference Yes and no. I remember from last summer's Joffery Lupul Instagram incident that *IF* the league thinks it's sketchy and WANTS independent confirmation, they can call for a second opinion from their own appointed doctors. That said, they didn't go that route with Lupul and the Leafs (which naturally led to some questions about the Leafs getting some breaks from the NHL Head Office) and the matter was dropped. So technically, it's possible that they could do that with Zetterberg, but yes, you're probably correct that it's realistically unlikely to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Undrafted said: No, the rule is that if Zetterberg retires before his contract is finished, then the cap-recapture penalty applies. The only way the Wings are off the hook is if he plays through his entire contract. The 'test' part I mentioned is whether Zetterberg's back issues are allowed to be declared LTIR--that would blatant circumvention of the cap-recapture rule. Det already planted the seed publicky that he isnt sure he will play because of back problems. LTIR for a few years then a quick sojourn in Arizona before retiring is my bet. Original 6 teams and big market teams dont get punished with this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: If the Canucks did it there would suddenly be a rule against it retroactively and only against them lol Correction....the Canucks would resign Orpik for $6@6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Undrafted said: Yes and no. I remember from last summer's Joffery Lupul Instagram incident that *IF* the league thinks it's sketchy and WANTS independent confirmation, they can call for a second opinion from their own appointed doctors. That said, they didn't go that route with Lupul and the Leafs (which naturally led to some questions about the Leafs getting some breaks from the NHL Head Office) and the matter was dropped. So technically, it's possible that they could do that with Zetterberg, but yes, you're probably correct that it's realistically unlikely to happen it would be very odd indeed if a league doctor would overrule a team doctor and basically call that professional incompetent so yeah.. . the team doc or docs can determine whether someone has a long term injury or not most players will get a second opinion anyway from a specialist if their issue is career threatening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 It's quite refreshing to come into this thread and not hear about how we overpaid for Gudbranson in comparison to this contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrafted Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 hours ago, coastal.view said: it would be very odd indeed if a league doctor would overrule a team doctor and basically call that professional incompetent so yeah.. . the team doc or docs can determine whether someone has a long term injury or not most players will get a second opinion anyway from a specialist if their issue is career threatening If there were a difference of opinion between a league-appointed doctor and a team doctor, I don't think the insinuation would be incompetence. The (since retracted) insinuation in the Lupul instagram was that the Leafs medical staff were instructed by Leafs management to fail Lupul's physical no matter what so that he'd remain on LTIR because they didn't want him on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 7 hours ago, Undrafted said: If there were a difference of opinion between a league-appointed doctor and a team doctor, I don't think the insinuation would be incompetence. The (since retracted) insinuation in the Lupul instagram was that the Leafs medical staff were instructed by Leafs management to fail Lupul's physical no matter what so that he'd remain on LTIR because they didn't want him on the team. if the leafs medical staff did that they would be unprofessional / incompetent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, coastal.view said: if the leafs medical staff did that they would be unprofessional / incompetent There is a lot of evidence confirming this exact thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 22 hours ago, apollo said: Lol you gotta be kidding me? Is this a video game? This is flat out cheating and the league should step in and fine Washington a 1st round pick. Caps are one of the few American teams I cheer for actually... but this is wrong and they have to pay. What BS. nothing wrong with it. There nothing in the CBA that says this is not allowed, happens in the NBA all of the time. So what if Arizona says to Benning we will offer you a 7th for a 3rd and Lui Erickson and we can buy him out for you. So by your logic t you wont want the canucks doing that trade for cap relief help, when Boesor and Petterson are up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 22 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said: Is it just me, or is the NHL the only professional sports league that allows this mickey mouse BS? just happened in the NBA last weak, and nothing wrong with it. The Canucks can easily do it with Erickson contract if he does not preform well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 22 hours ago, apollo said: Lol you gotta be kidding me? Is this a video game? This is flat out cheating and the league should step in and fine Washington a 1st round pick. Caps are one of the few American teams I cheer for actually... but this is wrong and they have to pay. What BS. how is this cheating ? If anything it is very clever, there are rules in place to work with. Nothing here was done against the rules. The team found a way to correct their cap situation and re-acquire one of their top team leaders and mentors. There is zero wrong with this, again having GM's get creative and think outside the box adds an element of entertainment and should be looked upon as again a clever move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Squamfan said: just happened in the NBA last weak, and nothing wrong with it. The Canucks can easily do it with Erickson contract if he does not preform well. Good point. Don't tempt me on the Eriksson front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analyst82 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 On 7/24/2018 at 2:25 PM, wallstreetamigo said: I think the much larger problem loophole that needs to be closed is the LTIR cap dodge for players who will never play again. And passing around their contracts to help irresponsible teams. I think the NHL needs to love towards NFL types of contracts. You should be able to cut players if they don't preform. Just have guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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