Linus Karlsson | C

[VegasCanuck]

7 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It's always the president's trophy excuse that comes up to defend Gillis. What did good do after 2011 when the core he had was diminished? Simple question because that truly highlighted how poor Gillis was.

 

Gillis was given a lot to work with when he started. A lot. Kesler, Sedins, Luongo, Kesler, all in their prime.

 

What was Benning given? A declining Sedins, an injured and disgruntled Kesler, and some scrap parts, with an empty prospect pool.

 

Wake up. Gillis was a terrible GM. The successes he had were largely due to the previous GMs acquisitions. Gillis succeeded in selecting supplementary players. That's it. After 2011, we finally see the true colours of Gillis. We also see just empty our prospect pool had become. Empty.

As I said earlier, more than 78% of minutes played in the Cup run, were played by players brought to the team by Brian Burke or Dave Nonis. 

 

I have verified this.

[filthycanuck]

7 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It's always the president's trophy excuse that comes up to defend Gillis. What did good do after 2011 when the core he had was diminished? Simple question because that truly highlighted how poor Gillis was.

 

Gillis was given a lot to work with when he started. A lot. Kesler, Sedins, Luongo, Kesler, all in their prime.

 

What was Benning given? A declining Sedins, an injured and disgruntled Kesler, and some scrap parts, with an empty prospect pool.

 

Wake up. Gillis was a terrible GM. The successes he had were largely due to the previous GMs acquisitions. Gillis succeeded in selecting supplementary players. That's it. After 2011, we finally see the true colours of Gillis. We also see just empty our prospect pool had become. Empty.

Ok so youd rather have a full prospect pool but miss the playoffs almost annually? Lol. Funny you bring up the presidents trophy as an excuse but yet have a boatload excuses on how benning was better. "He got left nothing" wah wah wah 

[filthycanuck]

8 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It's always the president's trophy excuse that comes up to defend Gillis. What did good do after 2011 when the core he had was diminished? Simple question because that truly highlighted how poor Gillis was.

 

Gillis was given a lot to work with when he started. A lot. Kesler, Sedins, Luongo, Kesler, all in their prime.

 

What was Benning given? A declining Sedins, an injured and disgruntled Kesler, and some scrap parts, with an empty prospect pool.

 

Wake up. Gillis was a terrible GM. The successes he had were largely due to the previous GMs acquisitions. Gillis succeeded in selecting supplementary players. That's it. After 2011, we finally see the true colours of Gillis. We also see just empty our prospect pool had become. Empty.

What did Gillis do after 2011? Finish bottom 5 in the standings.....oh wait? Thats JIM BENNING. Gillis teams were at least competitive, and made it to the playoffs in 2012. They were never the laughing stock of the league like the majority of Bennings tenure.

 

Hell, Bennings teams have more bottom 5 finishes than Gillis, Nonis, and Burkes teams combined. Each of those regimes have more wins than bennings teams in the playoffs.

[Hogs & Podz]

How did Linus's thread get turned into Gillis vs. Benning?  Curious because I'd expect this discussion to be more in the vicinity of the JR hiring thread. 

 

Anyway... Don't you folks think that Karlsson deserves (because of his excellent play this season) to be talked about more in his own thread? 

 

Did he play again tonight?  Is he just playing wing this year?  What line is he on?  Does he pk?  Pp #1?  Does he hit, scrap?  Is his skating NHL caliber?  More of a pp guy or 200 ft player?... Etc

[Ghostsof1915]

Hope we can find a way to get him here next year. 

[Junkyard Dog]

3 hours ago, Hogs & Podz said:

How did Linus's thread get turned into Gillis vs. Benning?  Curious because I'd expect this discussion to be more in the vicinity of the JR hiring thread. 

 

Anyway... Don't you folks think that Karlsson deserves (because of his excellent play this season) to be talked about more in his own thread? 

 

Did he play again tonight?  Is he just playing wing this year?  What line is he on?  Does he pk?  Pp #1?  Does he hit, scrap?  Is his skating NHL caliber?  More of a pp guy or 200 ft player?... Etc

He's played more wing this year.

 

He's more described as a 200 foot player who does a lot of things well and is willing to engage physically though he isn't as much a physical forward. His bread and butter is his shot and goal scoring instincts(he knows where to find those soft spots to finish plays). He protects the puck well below the goal lines and along the boards.  

 

His biggest and maybe his only real knock is his skating which has been described as average/above average. Despite his skating he's usually in good position and makes good reads which allows him to be an effective forechecker. 

 

He plays more than 16 minutes a game. He's played more on the PP than the PK but has a SHG. He has almost a 24% shooting percentage on the PP. 7 of his 23 points are on the PP and 5 of them are goals. He averages over 2 minutes of PP time a game and almost 30 seconds of PK time. He is tied for 7th in PP time on his team and is 14th in PK time on his team. Not that he can't do PK or hasn't done so elsewhere, just how he has been utilized this year.

[Hogs & Podz]

8 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

He's played more wing this year.

 

He's more described as a 200 foot player who does a lot of things well and is willing to engage physically though he isn't as much a physical forward. His bread and butter is his shot and goal scoring instincts(he knows where to find those soft spots to finish plays). He protects the puck well below the goal lines and along the boards.  

 

His biggest and maybe his only real knock is his skating which has been described as average/above average. Despite his skating he's usually in good position and makes good reads which allows him to be an effective forechecker. 

 

He plays more than 16 minutes a game. He's played more on the PP than the PK but has a SHG. He has almost a 24% shooting percentage on the PP. 7 of his 23 points are on the PP and 5 of them are goals. He averages over 2 minutes of PP time a game and almost 30 seconds of PK time. He is tied for 7th in PP time on his team and is 14th in PK time on his team. Not that he can't do PK or hasn't done so elsewhere, just how he has been utilized this year.

+1. That's a pretty great synopsis of his play.  Much appreciated!

 

Do you think, if he continues to improve, he may be ready for the jump to Abby next season?  Or safe to say another year in shl?  This was his first full time season in shl correct?

Edited January 6, 2022 by Hogs & Podz

[Junkyard Dog]

18 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

+1. That's a pretty great synopsis of his play.  Much appreciated!

 

Do you think, if he continues to improve, he may be ready for the jump to Abby next season?  Or safe to say another year in shl?  This was his first full time season in shl correct?

He signed two years with his SHL team and we would lose his rights at the end of it. However his contract has an out though this off-season if he decides to sign with the Canucks. We have to sign him this off-season in order to retain his rights.

 

I think he could play in Abby right now. Next year for sure.

 

This was his 2nd go in the SHL. His first stint in the SHL was in his draft year and he played 13 games and averaged 5 minutes a game and he was on the worst team in the SHL that year. His team was actually in a regulation series and was regulated that year to HockeyAllsvenskan where Karlsson continued to play before moving onto another team in that league before finally this year where he's playing his 2nd stint in the SHL

 

This could be considered his first real go in the SHL. He is currently on the league's 2nd best team in the SHL(in terms of points). 2 points out of being the 1st placed team but they have two teams 2 points back of them. So he's essentially on a top 4 team(all neck and neck) there.

[Hogs & Podz]

33 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

He signed two years with his SHL team and we would lose his rights at the end of it. However his contract has an out though this off-season if he decides to sign with the Canucks. We have to sign him this off-season in order to retain his rights.

 

I think he could play in Abby right now. Next year for sure.

 

This was his 2nd go in the SHL. His first stint in the SHL was in his draft year and he played 13 games and averaged 5 minutes a game and he was on the worst team in the SHL that year. His team was actually in a regulation series and was regulated that year to HockeyAllsvenskan where Karlsson continued to play before moving onto another team in that league before finally this year where he's playing his 2nd stint in the SHL

 

This could be considered his first real go in the SHL. He is currently on the league's 2nd best team in the SHL(in terms of points). 2 points out of being the 1st placed team but they have two teams 2 points back of them. So he's essentially on a top 4 team(all neck and neck) there.

Again, awesome insight thanks!  Cool, so I'm assuming he plays mostly on the 2nd line based on 16+ min per game?  Playing on one If the top teams in shl, as an integral piece to his team's success this year.  Sounds like he has the potential qualities to be a top six  player in Abby.  With continued to development (working with our skating coaches), a quality depth player with enough skill to play 2nd pp if needed for the big team in a couple years.  Hopefully they decide to sign him in the off season as you mentioned.  Might have us forget about Dahlen all together. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Hogs & Podz

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Ray_Cathode]

On 1/5/2022 at 3:47 PM, VegasCanuck said:

As I said earlier, more than 78% of minutes played in the Cup run, were played by players brought to the team by Brian Burke or Dave Nonis. 

 

I have verified this.

2010-11 season:

 

I do not minimize Burke and Nonis’s contributions to the 2010-11 team. But Nonis got fired because team failed to make the playoffs in two of the previous three years. The team failed, not because it did not have high end talent - they had the top two scorers in the league, a great complementary player in Burrows, a superb two way centre in Kesler, a strong third liner in Hansen, a great pair of goalies in Luongo and Schneider, and two excellent defencemen in Edler and Bieksa.

 

But Nonis had not finished building a Stanley Cup team, and had not made the playoffs in two out of three years of his tenure. There was a reason he was fired. Gillis did two things Nonis had failed to do: he rounded out what might have been the best all round D in the league by adding Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Tanev, Ballard, and Rome to the D. Finished the top six forwards with Samuelson, and provided an excellent bottom six forwards (excepting Hansen came via Nonis).

 

What else?

 

First of all, you have to qualify for the playoffs by playing in the regular season.  The team can only use 18 players per game x 82 games means 1476 player games.

Games played by Gillis signings: 871

 

That’s 60 % of player games played by Gillis signings.

 

Burke/Nonis had done a good job of finding talent - Burke’s job in acquiring the picks to draft the Sedins was a tour de force. Edler as a third rounder, Bieksa as a fifth? Great! The vastly under-rated Burrows for nothing? Getting a great goalie in a Luongo? That’s a big deal. 
 

But the team was incomplete, and Nonis had not made a great job of putting together the missing pieces.

 

Of course, Burke did exactly what Zgillis did when he got to Anaheim - he inherited a rich core and filled in the missing pieces, and collected a a Stanley for hi# trouble. Every GM starts with something.

 

 

 

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

2010-11 season:

 

I do not minimize Burke and Nonis’s contributions to the 2010-11 team. But Nonis got fired because team failed to make the playoffs in two of the previous three years. The team failed, not because it did not have high end talent - they had the top two scorers in the league, a great complementary player in Burrows, a superb two way centre in Kesler, a strong third liner in Hansen, a great pair of goalies in Luongo and Schneider, and two excellent defencemen in Edler and Bieksa.

 

But Nonis had not finished building a Stanley Cup team, and had not made the playoffs in two out of three years of his tenure. There was a reason he was fired. Gillis did two things Nonis had failed to do: he rounded out what might have been the best all round D in the league by adding Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Tanev, Ballard, and Rome to the D. Finished the top six forwards with Samuelson, and provided an excellent bottom six forwards (excepting Hansen came via Nonis).

 

What else?

 

First of all, you have to qualify for the playoffs by playing in the regular season.  The team can only use 18 players per game x 82 games means 1476 player games.

Games played by Gillis signings: 871

 

That’s 60 % of player games played by Gillis signings.

 

Burke/Nonis had done a good job of finding talent - Burke’s job in acquiring the picks to draft the Sedins was a tour de force. Edler as a third rounder, Bieksa as a fifth? Great! The vastly under-rated Burrows for nothing? Getting a great goalie in a Luongo? That’s a big deal. 
 

But the team was incomplete, and Nonis had not made a great job of putting together the missing pieces.

 

Of course, Burke did exactly what Zgillis did when he got to Anaheim - he inherited a rich core and filled in the missing pieces, and collected a a Stanley for hi# trouble. Every GM starts with something.

 

 

 

 

 

Nonis actually got fired for past alliances to the previous ownership.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Coconuts]

52 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

What a season he's having

 

It's refreshing to see a trade involving a young player being moved out look positive for once, Benning might have been on to something 

[Ray_Cathode]

On 1/5/2022 at 5:56 PM, Hogs & Podz said:

How did Linus's thread get turned into Gillis vs. Benning?  Curious because I'd expect this discussion to be more in the vicinity of the JR hiring thread. 

 

Anyway... Don't you folks think that Karlsson deserves (because of his excellent play this season) to be talked about more in his own thread? 

 

Did he play again tonight?  Is he just playing wing this year?  What line is he on?  Does he pk?  Pp #1?  Does he hit, scrap?  Is his skating NHL caliber?  More of a pp guy or 200 ft player?... Etc

Yeah, I know, I’m a sucker, just feel I have to respond when something said seems unreasonable; just like when I say something on the ragged edge myself, it attracts negative attention. Part of exploring the limits, I suppose - sometimes the limit seems to be over the edge of a cliff.

 

I like Linus’ progress, and I hope next year we can have a look at him in Abby, and maybe a couple of other of our prospect, too.

[Ray_Cathode]

7 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

Nonis actually got fired for past alliances to the previous ownership.

Not according to the Aqualini quote in the Hockey News at the time. They reported that it was for missing the playoffs two out of the last three years of his tenur:

https://thehockeynews.com/news/vancouver-canucks-fire-dave-nonis-as-nhl-teams-general-manager

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Not according to the Aqualini quote in the Hockey News at the time. They reported that it was for missing the playoffs two out of the last three years of his tenur:

https://thehockeynews.com/news/vancouver-canucks-fire-dave-nonis-as-nhl-teams-general-manager

So, new ownership says, "Of course we didn't fire him due to the fact that he support the other side on a dispute", and you believe him?

 

Here's the real statistics:

Here's guys that Gillis brought in for the team that went to the final that year:

Maxim Lapierre Played 25 games, 2 goals, 3 assists

Chris Higgins Played 14 games during regular season. Played 24 in playoffs, 4 goals, 4 assists

Raffi Torres Played 23 games, 3 goals, 4 assists

Christian Ehrhoff played 23 games, 2 goals, 10 assists (probably one of the most effective guy that Gillis added)

Tanner Glass Played 20 games, 0 goals, 0 assists

Dan Hamhuis Played 19 games, 1 goal, 5 assists (other most effective guy that Gillis added)

Victor Oreskovich Played 19 games, 0 goals, 0 assists

Aaron Rome Played 14 games, 1 Goal, 0 assists

Cody Hodgson played 12 Games, 0 Goals, 1 assist

Mikael Samuelsson played 11 games, 1 goal, 2 assists 

Keith Ballard played 10 games, 0 goals, 0 assists (Gillis gave up a LOT of assets to get him)

Andrew Alberts played 9 games, 0 goals, 0 assists

Jeff Tambellini played 6 games, 0 goals, 0 assists)

Manny Malhotra (only played 6 games in playoffs)

 

Now, let's look at who was added by Nonis or Burke

Daniel Sedin played 25 games, 9 goals, 11 assists

Henrik Sedin played 25 games, 3 goals, 19 assists

Ryan Kesler played 25 games, 7 goals, 12 assists

Alexander Burrows played 25 games, 9 goals, 8 assists

Mason Raymond played 24 games, 2 goals, 6 assists

Alexander Edler played 25 games, 2 goals, 9 assists

Jannik Hansen Played 25 games, 3 goals, 6 assists

Kevin Bieksa played 25 games, 5 goals, 5 assists

Sami Salo played 21 games, 3 goals, 2 assists

Roberto Luongo played 25 games

 

So, there's a lot of players that Gillis added, but if you look at the production and if you go and look at minutes played, the core talent of the team that went to the final in 2011, was assembled by Nonis or Burke.

 

Even Schneider, who only saw 5 games in relief, was not drafted by Gillis.

 

 

 

 

[Ray_Cathode]

1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

So, new ownership says, "Of course we didn't fire him due to the fact that he support the other side on a dispute", and you believe him?

 

Here's the real statistics:

Here's guys that Gillis brought in for the team that went to the final that year:

Maxim Lapierre Played 25 games, 2 goals, 3 assists

Chris Higgins Played 14 games during regular season. Played 24 in playoffs, 4 goals, 4 assists

Raffi Torres Played 23 games, 3 goals, 4 assists

Christian Ehrhoff played 23 games, 2 goals, 10 assists (probably one of the most effective guy that Gillis added)

Tanner Glass Played 20 games, 0 goals, 0 assists

Dan Hamhuis Played 19 games, 1 goal, 5 assists (other most effective guy that Gillis added)

Victor Oreskovich Played 19 games, 0 goals, 0 assists

Aaron Rome Played 14 games, 1 Goal, 0 assists

Cody Hodgson played 12 Games, 0 Goals, 1 assist

Mikael Samuelsson played 11 games, 1 goal, 2 assists 

Keith Ballard played 10 games, 0 goals, 0 assists (Gillis gave up a LOT of assets to get him)

Andrew Alberts played 9 games, 0 goals, 0 assists

Jeff Tambellini played 6 games, 0 goals, 0 assists)

Manny Malhotra (only played 6 games in playoffs)

 

Now, let's look at who was added by Nonis or Burke

Daniel Sedin played 25 games, 9 goals, 11 assists

Henrik Sedin played 25 games, 3 goals, 19 assists

Ryan Kesler played 25 games, 7 goals, 12 assists

Alexander Burrows played 25 games, 9 goals, 8 assists

Mason Raymond played 24 games, 2 goals, 6 assists

Alexander Edler played 25 games, 2 goals, 9 assists

Jannik Hansen Played 25 games, 3 goals, 6 assists

Kevin Bieksa played 25 games, 5 goals, 5 assists

Sami Salo played 21 games, 3 goals, 2 assists

Roberto Luongo played 25 games

 

So, there's a lot of players that Gillis added, but if you look at the production and if you go and look at minutes played, the core talent of the team that went to the final in 2011, was assembled by Nonis or Burke.

 

Even Schneider, who only saw 5 games in relief, was not drafted by Gillis.

 

 

 

 

You don’t get it, I am not denying that Burke/Nonis had not accumulated some good pieces, and In fairness, I’ll even give you something you failed to mention - the unfortunate case of Luke Bourdon, who would likely have taken them one step closer to a D worthy of a playoff team. But in the three years Nonis was there, he failed to build a worthy D, nor a bottom six - in three years! And he still needed another top six forward. Nonis’s downfall was that In three years, he was only able to make a single useful trade - granted a big one - Luongo.

 

But nor will I diminish Gillis’s contribution. He was able to make big trades to complete the D and bottom six. Without those elements, the Canucks could be no more successful than they would have been had Burke’s and Nonis’s contributions not been made.

 

Pretty much all of the players Gillis inherited, had played for Nonis for all of the three years before Gillis arrived, but they failed to make the playoffs two of those three years under Nonis - he had not created a playoff team, never mind cup contender. The defence only had Edler and Bieka, that is not a winning defence. In addition, Nonis bottom six was entirely inadequate.
 

It is a parallel to the teams of the West Coast Express era - maybe the best first line in hockey at the time, but it was not a successful playoff team, lacking the other required elements. 
 

And with that, I’m done. This is Linus Karlsson thread. Take your last cut, before we annoy everybody else on this thread even more than we already have.

[Nigerian]

Gillis has play.....no

Benning has played....nope f$c&

 

Karlsson has played so well this season! He does definitely look like he could be a solid 3C for us in the near future, would like to see him in a couple preseason games next season. 

[Ray_Cathode]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:32 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

He's played more wing this year.

 

He's more described as a 200 foot player who does a lot of things well and is willing to engage physically though he isn't as much a physical forward. His bread and butter is his shot and goal scoring instincts(he knows where to find those soft spots to finish plays). He protects the puck well below the goal lines and along the boards.  

 

His biggest and maybe his only real knock is his skating which has been described as average/above average. Despite his skating he's usually in good position and makes good reads which allows him to be an effective forechecker. 

 

He plays more than 16 minutes a game. He's played more on the PP than the PK but has a SHG. He has almost a 24% shooting percentage on the PP. 7 of his 23 points are on the PP and 5 of them are goals. He averages over 2 minutes of PP time a game and almost 30 seconds of PK time. He is tied for 7th in PP time on his team and is 14th in PK time on his team. Not that he can't do PK or hasn't done so elsewhere, just how he has been utilized this year.

From your observations, do you think his skating knock might be less important on the smaller North American rinks?