ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 9 hours ago, Baggins said: To be fair Yzerman walked into a pretty good situation in Tampa and did a good job with it. He certainly didn't need to replace an entire team with no prospect pool to draw from. Not the over the hill, no prospect pool, train wreck Benning walked into. Edmonton on the other hand is - how many top 10, top 5 and 1st overall picks do you need to just put together a decent team? Oh about 25 or 30 or so..... Yzerman took over in 2010 and there’s only 2 players on that team that are currently on the lightning this year so technically yes he did have to completely overhaul the entire roster. The two players he inherited from that roster were Stamkos and Hedman and while yes they are two very, very good building blocks, the only other player in the system that is on the currently roster is Killorn. So I’m not sure the bolts prospect pool was very as good as you implied, Richard Panik and Mark Barberio were the full extent of the prospect pool. When Yzerman took over he had a 34 year old St.Louis, a 32 year old Ohlund and declining 30 year olds in Tanguay, Malone, and Lecavalier. I’m not sure his situation was all the great. What he was able to accomplish is outstanding, just take a look at his finger prints on their roster. Kucherov drafted by Yzerman in the 2nd round of 2011 Point drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2014 Vasilevskiy drafted by Yzerman in the 1st round of 2012 Palat drafted by Yzerman in the 7th round of 2011 Joseph drafted by Yzerman in the 5th round of 2015 Cirelli drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2015 Paquette drafted by Yzerman in the 4th round of 2012 Erne drafted by Yzerman in the 2nd round of 2013 Johnson signed by Yzerman as an undrafted free agent in 2011 Gourde signed by Yzerman as an undrafted free agent in 2014 Stralman signied by Yzerman as a UFA in 2014 Girardisignied by Yzerman as a UFA in 2017 Sergachev traded for Drouin, who was drafted by Yzerman in the 1st round of 2013 JT Miller and Ryan McDonagh were both acquired for Hajek and Howden (both drafted by Yzerman in 2016) and Namestnikov (drafted by Yzerman in 2011) Coburn traded for Gudas, who was drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2010 Even John Cooper was a Yzerman hire. Steve Yzerman did one heck of a job building one of the best rosters we’ve seen in the last 30 years and there should be nothing said to discredit what he accomplished as a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yzerman took over in 2010 and there’s only 2 players on that team that are currently on the lightning this year so technically yes he did have to completely overhaul the entire roster. The two players he inherited from that roster were Stamkos and Hedman and while yes they are two very, very good building blocks, the only other player in the system that is on the currently roster is Killorn. So I’m not sure the bolts prospect pool was very as good as you implied, Richard Panik and Mark Barberio were the full extent of the prospect pool. When Yzerman took over he had a 34 year old St.Louis, a 32 year old Ohlund and declining 30 year olds in Tanguay, Malone, and Lecavalier. I’m not sure his situation was all the great. What he was able to accomplish is outstanding, just take a look at his finger prints on their roster. Kucherov drafted by Yzerman in the 2nd round of 2011 Point drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2014 Vasilevskiy drafted by Yzerman in the 1st round of 2012 Palat drafted by Yzerman in the 7th round of 2011 Joseph drafted by Yzerman in the 5th round of 2015 Cirelli drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2015 Paquette drafted by Yzerman in the 4th round of 2012 Erne drafted by Yzerman in the 2nd round of 2013 Johnson signed by Yzerman as an undrafted free agent in 2011 Gourde signed by Yzerman as an undrafted free agent in 2014 Stralman signied by Yzerman as a UFA in 2014 Girardisignied by Yzerman as a UFA in 2017 Sergachev traded for Drouin, who was drafted by Yzerman in the 1st round of 2013 JT Miller and Ryan McDonagh were both acquired for Hajek and Howden (both drafted by Yzerman in 2016) and Namestnikov (drafted by Yzerman in 2011) Coburn traded for Gudas, who was drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2010 Even John Cooper was a Yzerman hire. Steve Yzerman did one heck of a job building one of the best rosters we’ve seen in the last 30 years and there should be nothing said to discredit what he accomplished as a GM. Did Benning take over a team with a 20 year old Stamkos and a 20 year old Hedman already stars on the team? Two young elite franchise cornerstones. Not to mention St Louis with over 90 points in 09/10. That alone blows away what Benning inherited. I said he had a pretty good situation and did well with it. I stand by that statement. There's absolutely nothing in that statement discrediting him in saying he had a better starting point because he did. You wasted your time with that mighty list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Baggins said: To be fair Yzerman walked into a pretty good situation in Tampa and did a good job with it. He certainly didn't need to replace an entire team with no prospect pool to draw from. Not the over the hill, no prospect pool, train wreck Benning walked into. Edmonton on the other hand is - how many top 10, top 5 and 1st overall picks do you need to just put together a decent team? Oh about 25 or 30 or so..... The situation Yzerman walked into had nothing to do with the homerun picks they've drafted under his watch or the fantastic contracts he got his stars on or the way he's built his team around the players he inherited. Good GMs do good work, all excuses aside, it's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 13 hours ago, PuckFather said: I can swear some Canucks so-called fans on hfboard go online from a mental institution, after not taking their meds for a whole week. Yes and everyone here is completely sane and rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, Baggins said: Did Benning take over a team with a 20 year old Stamkos and a 20 year old Hedman already stars on the team? Two young elite franchise cornerstones. Not to mention St Louis with over 90 points in 09/10. That alone blows away what Benning inherited. I said he had a pretty good situation and did well with it. I stand by that statement. There's absolutely nothing in that statement discrediting him in saying he had a better starting point because he did. You wasted your time with that mighty list. You said he had a prospect pool. Which is false. The only prospects they had in there system was killorn and Richard panik. While JB didn’t have a 35 year old St.louis who put up 99 points like Steve had the year he took over but JB did have TWO 33 year old sedin who put up 76 and 73 points the year he took over. Its funny that you couldnt just admit that Steve Yzerman was a top GM that built a team basically from scratch. You had to through in your made up caveat (in which I debunked) in order to make yourself feel better about someone stating they didn’t think JB was at the Yzerman quality level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isam Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yzerman took over in 2010 and there’s only 2 players on that team that are currently on the lightning this year so technically yes he did have to completely overhaul the entire roster. The two players he inherited from that roster were Stamkos and Hedman and while yes they are two very, very good building blocks, the only other player in the system that is on the currently roster is Killorn. So I’m not sure the bolts prospect pool was very as good as you implied, Richard Panik and Mark Barberio were the full extent of the prospect pool. When Yzerman took over he had a 34 year old St.Louis, a 32 year old Ohlund and declining 30 year olds in Tanguay, Malone, and Lecavalier. I’m not sure his situation was all the great. What he was able to accomplish is outstanding, just take a look at his finger prints on their roster. Kucherov drafted by Yzerman in the 2nd round of 2011 Point drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2014 Vasilevskiy drafted by Yzerman in the 1st round of 2012 Palat drafted by Yzerman in the 7th round of 2011 Joseph drafted by Yzerman in the 5th round of 2015 Cirelli drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2015 Paquette drafted by Yzerman in the 4th round of 2012 Erne drafted by Yzerman in the 2nd round of 2013 Johnson signed by Yzerman as an undrafted free agent in 2011 Gourde signed by Yzerman as an undrafted free agent in 2014 Stralman signied by Yzerman as a UFA in 2014 Girardisignied by Yzerman as a UFA in 2017 Sergachev traded for Drouin, who was drafted by Yzerman in the 1st round of 2013 JT Miller and Ryan McDonagh were both acquired for Hajek and Howden (both drafted by Yzerman in 2016) and Namestnikov (drafted by Yzerman in 2011) Coburn traded for Gudas, who was drafted by Yzerman in the 3rd round of 2010 Even John Cooper was a Yzerman hire. Steve Yzerman did one heck of a job building one of the best rosters we’ve seen in the last 30 years and there should be nothing said to discredit what he accomplished as a GM. Al murray too was a yzerman hire. He helped turn around what was a mess of a scouting staff in tb and turned them into one of the best and thus making stevie looking a drafting god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 hours ago, kanucks25 said: The situation Yzerman walked into had nothing to do with the homerun picks they've drafted under his watch or the fantastic contracts he got his stars on or the way he's built his team around the players he inherited. Good GMs do good work, all excuses aside, it's as simple as that. Who said it did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckFather Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 hours ago, kanucks25 said: Yes and everyone here is completely sane and rational. You from hfboards bro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Since 2017 NYR. Brendan Lemieux (New)Anthony DeAngeloRyan LindgrenYegor RykovBrett HowdenLibor Hajek2017 1st Round Pick2018 1st Round PickConditional 2nd Round Pick2018 1st Round Pick2018 2nd Round Pick2018 3rd Round Pick2019 1st Round Pick (New)Conditional 2019 2nd Round Pick (New)2019 7th Round Pick2020 2nd Round Pick (New)Conditional 2020 3rd Round Pick (New)2020 7th Round Pick (New)2020 7th Round Pick (New)Conditional 2022 4th Round Pick (New) Detroit Madison Bowey (New)2018 1st Round Pick2018 3rd Round Pick2018 5th Round PickConditional 2018 4th Round Pick2019 2nd Round Pick (New)2019 2nd Round Pick2019 5th round pickConditional 2019 3rd Round PickConditional 2019 7th Round Pick (New)Conditional 2020 3rd Round Pick (New)2021 3rd Round Pick Ottawa Jonathan Davidsson (New) Vitaly Abramov (New)Jean-Christophe Beaudin (New)Josh NorrisRudolfs Balcers2019 1st Round Pick (New)2019 1st Round Pick2019 2nd Round Pick2019 7th Round PickConditional 2020 1st-Round Pick (New)2020 2nd Round Pick (New)2020 3rd Round Pick2020 6th Round Pick (New)2020 6th Round Pick (New)2021 2nd Round Pick (New)Conditional 2021 1st Round Pick OR 2nd Round PickConditional 2022 1st Round Pick VancouverTyler MotteNikolay GoldobinJonathan DahlenConditional 4th Round Pick2019 6th Round Pick (New)2020 7th Round Pick (New) It's almost like those teams had more valuable assets to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Mhm yep which also ties in to the fact that Benning hasn't brought in tradeable assets or was unable to move his ntc players. Duh Hard to move NTC players when they refuse to waive isn't it? As for bringing in tradeable assets, it's hard to do that when they're all injured. Not to mention we're not exactly attracting the best free agents right now when we've been a bottom feeder. Regardless, those pieces that those teams traded were their own drafted and developed players that they had spent years developing. We don't exactly have those players right now other than Tanev and Edler who for obvious reasons were untradeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 40 minutes ago, DeNiro said: It's almost like those teams had more valuable assets to trade. When he inherited the team he had: Hamhuis (top-4 D-man) Garrison (top-4 D-man) Bieksa (top-4 D-man) Edler (top-4 D-man) Kesler (elite 2C) Burrows (3rd liner) Higgins (3rd liner) Kassian (3rd liner) Sedin (1st liner) Sedin (1st liner) Definitely no valuable assets there? The NTCs are just an excuse. If a GM really wants to, he can find a way to ship players out. The only exception here would be Edler and the Sedins who we knew would not waive regardless. Benning made it a point to try to "remain competitive" (that really worked out lol) while "re-tooling". Not only did we not compete but we received little-to-no value on the assets listed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: You said he had a prospect pool. Which is false. The only prospects they had in there system was killorn and Richard panik. While JB didn’t have a 35 year old St.louis who put up 99 points like Steve had the year he took over but JB did have TWO 33 year old sedin who put up 76 and 73 points the year he took over. Where was JB's Stamkos and Hedman? You have to admit they're a damn good starting point. Check what I wrote again.... 14 hours ago, Baggins said: To be fair Yzerman walked into a pretty good situation in Tampa and did a good job with it. He certainly didn't need to replace an entire team with no prospect pool to draw from. Not the over the hill, no prospect pool, train wreck Benning walked into. Edmonton on the other hand is - how many top 10, top 5 and 1st overall picks do you need to just put together a decent team? Oh about 25 or 30 or so..... Didn't I say "did a good job with it"? Talk about complete over reaction. Are you a relative or something? Sorry I didn't pump his tires enough for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 38 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: The fact that we have no tradeable assets is the exact reason someone like Edler should of been traded. Yes I know he didn't waive but you know what, Jim holds the fate of Edlers remaining years right now, he's the one who puts the ink to the paper and if Edler wants to stick around for another 3 years and make bucket loads of more money all while riding in to the beautiful Vancouver sunset how about do the team a solid and JB throws him a bone during contract talks. Nyquist just waived his ntc, that's the only one I know of this year but I'm sure there were a few more. We need to stop letting the swedes run this franchise JB. Hey Alex... how about you wave your NMC and go to Calgary. Alex. What is the deal? JB. They will give us there first plus a smurf project. Alex. Let me think about it. JB. Oh by the way you will have to stay there a couple of years. Alex. Uncontrollable laughter. And that my friends is why Calgary is so pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: This place is ridiculous. I wouldn't want Edler going to Calgary either but Smurf project? 20 years old 5"11 27 points in 26 games in the AHL Who do we have on our farm team better than this Smurf project? Nobody. We just traded away an actual "Smurf project" and he was or future top 6 lw according to most...29 points in 50 games and that was the hope we were hanging on to as our top 6 left winger. Well on to Gadjovich I guess, maybe we'll take an LW in this years draft and he'll be ready to go by 2022 Dube had nothing to do with what I was saying. He just got caught in the crossfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, The 5th Line said: The fact that we have no tradeable assets is the exact reason someone like Edler should of been traded. You can keep saying this until you're blue in the face. Doesn't change the fact he exercised his right to not be traded. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: So you are okay with what we've done at the last three trade deadlines? Is that what you are saying? For the record 110% Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, The 5th Line said: This place is ridiculous. This place ain't got nothing on the HF place when it comes to analyzing the rhythms of ridicularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: So you are okay with what we've done at the last three trade deadlines? Is that what you are saying? For the record I understand the players side of it and I take no issue with players exercising their NTC, not going to blame management for that. Would I have liked if players waived of course. But they didn't which is their right. Like I said, move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, The 5th Line said: Since 2017 NYR. Brendan Lemieux (New)Anthony DeAngeloRyan LindgrenYegor RykovBrett HowdenLibor Hajek2017 1st Round Pick2018 1st Round PickConditional 2nd Round Pick2018 1st Round Pick2018 2nd Round Pick2018 3rd Round Pick2019 1st Round Pick (New)Conditional 2019 2nd Round Pick (New)2019 7th Round Pick2020 2nd Round Pick (New)Conditional 2020 3rd Round Pick (New)2020 7th Round Pick (New)2020 7th Round Pick (New)Conditional 2022 4th Round Pick (New) Detroit Madison Bowey (New)2018 1st Round Pick2018 3rd Round Pick2018 5th Round PickConditional 2018 4th Round Pick2019 2nd Round Pick (New)2019 2nd Round Pick2019 5th round pickConditional 2019 3rd Round PickConditional 2019 7th Round Pick (New)Conditional 2020 3rd Round Pick (New)2021 3rd Round Pick Ottawa Jonathan Davidsson (New) Vitaly Abramov (New)Jean-Christophe Beaudin (New)Josh NorrisRudolfs Balcers2019 1st Round Pick (New)2019 1st Round Pick2019 2nd Round Pick2019 7th Round PickConditional 2020 1st-Round Pick (New)2020 2nd Round Pick (New)2020 3rd Round Pick2020 6th Round Pick (New)2020 6th Round Pick (New)2021 2nd Round Pick (New)Conditional 2021 1st Round Pick OR 2nd Round PickConditional 2022 1st Round Pick VancouverTyler MotteNikolay GoldobinJonathan DahlenConditional 4th Round Pick2019 6th Round Pick (New)2020 7th Round Pick (New) That's amazing....ly depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Baggins said: Where was JB's Stamkos and Hedman? You have to admit they're a damn good starting point. Check what I wrote again.... Didn't I say "did a good job with it"? Talk about complete over reaction. Are you a relative or something? Sorry I didn't pump his tires enough for you. " He certainly didn't need to replace an entire team with no prospect pool to draw from" That's exactly what walked into. Killorn was the only prospect in the system, the entire roster has been completely overhauled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.ed4ffd81393717a7b4296e6fdaac89fa.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.